South African ATC Terms and Endearment (Merged) [Archive]

Dct no speed

7th Sep 2005, 18:44

Hi to PMS , Little one and Radar Pete,

Now, now, Radar Pete ,not so fast things have been real s :mad: t in Jo 'burg for a while, so give PMS some place to speak "her "mind.Do Agree about the getting out of the stone age part the K ... a bit uncalled for.

A Pay increase ........at ATNS ...... to keep staff, well what happend there, I thought it was still the same old storie in the
office ?

AAAhhh the land of sand, heard things over there looks a lot better these days, for one the FUEL price ! What do guys from Sandton and Pretoria budget for fuel now ? Is the price really R 6-05 / lt .

I hear the pitter patter of little feet to other parts of the world too.

What ever happend to all the International controllers From Sweden and Canada and Switzerland, heard you had some "communist and others also working there.

Had to check twice on the RT if we where in the right country a lot less now .Why ?

Keep up the good work Little one .......

03L please.
:)

Radar Pete

7th Sep 2005, 19:53

Hey there DCT no speed, sounds like the old nashua 1 alpha arrival?

No problem with the speak the mind bit but my gripe is purely about the K thang. Surely we can move past cr@p like that?

Wish some of the pitter patter would come over to the Abu Dhabi sand pit. Dubai has over the recent months had an influx of APP ATC's but nothing for the ACC guys.

It's a pity that the guys have to leave there homes to get a decent deal, when are ATNS going to wake up and realise the cost of training will exceed the cost of retention? Great bunch of guys left in SA, all with great talent.

126,7

8th Sep 2005, 06:36

There were never any Swedes. The Danes all left and so did the one Swiss and the one Canadian. I believe that two of the Macedonians have also resigned and are moving to Switzerland. Joburg is not the only place losing ATCs at the moment. Now its the turn of the outstations like Wonderboom and Lanseria who are losing guys to the sandpit.
VIVA ATNS VIVA

PMS

8th Sep 2005, 10:56

OK OK :* :zzz: :zzz:

I will retract the K... remark, sorry it s that time of the month.
But the rest still stands, so what happened to all the Sth Africans who left AUH ACC, have they all ended up back on J'burg sectors with more money or not??

Why is it that men never seem to want to answer easy questions!!

:oh: :oh:

rgds

PMS

Radar Pete

8th Sep 2005, 12:23

Thanks PMS.

If memory serves me well, in the last 2 yrs, 6 left here. 2 are out of ATC altogether and 4 are at FAJS, of the 4, one is trying to get to a coastal station (could be there already) and one is at the college. One would have to entice them to scrawl their writings on this board for better info.

From what I hear, the salaries are pretty good at FAJS. What has happened is that in the years of losing the JS ATC's, ATNS failed to look after the rest who are now fed up and leaving. The last arrived in the metropolis of Ras Al Khaimah not to long ago.

Dct no speed

8th Sep 2005, 17:22

Hi all

Well if the salaries at Jo,burg are so great why is 1 out of 4 already trying to get out and go Sea side or did the Cape "Moaniance" also get a pay rise-----do they still have the "mountaaaaain" that is much more difficult to control planes around than the weather up in Jo'burg?/??/

What is the Central place ........is that Grand Central or Central Station or Central Prison ?

I agree with Radar Pete great guys down there , Ok Great girls too PMS. You guys look after us well !!!!!!

Pete keep fishing mate ? Could also be Dct JN Vis on request

Let's get a reply from the happy masses. Is the Poison dwarf still in the mix ?

Got to Go, got Dct no Speeds

divingduck

8th Sep 2005, 17:34

Sandpit may become untenable shortly...if the rumours about a VAT and income tax are true....in the UAE of course, no one else would be that stupid.

Interesting times ahead.

Dct no speed

8th Sep 2005, 20:10

A source inside the Kremlin revealed ;that Muscat and Doha have come to the Party and are offering Villas, and between 25 000 and 32 000 Aed per month.( Anyone have the facts ? Radar Pete need your help on this one )

Is there live after ATNS and SERCO ?

Let us know.

Dct no speed:)

Radar Pete

9th Sep 2005, 06:49

No fishing expedition son, the 'Nashua 1 Alpha' arrival is direct JN, high speed and landing on the left.......thought you would know that?

As for Muscat, offer is the equivalent of Dhs 30 000 all incl.
Doha is unconfirmed at Dhs26 000 plus a villa.

Not sure where you get your 1 in 4, but there must be more to it than just money.

DD

The whole VAT and tax issue has much wider ramifications as these are all recommendations from the IMF. The recommendations made are not exclusively for the UAE but aimed at those countries that have no personal income tax system within the GCC. Don't think that the UAE would implement such a system when the neighbours are not, think of the benfit the neighbours would have with an influx of qualified expats. The UAE would not want to risk losing the infrastructure they have. In other words, tax, vat etc would, in all probability, be instituted as a GCC initiative. Don't always believe what you read in the papers, or pprune for that matter.

Dct no speed

9th Sep 2005, 07:14

:D

Good on you mate ,a man with true facts and straight answers ! It is therefore clear that you are not in management no scars to show for the frontal labotammy.

True about the Nasua 1 A , very seldom we get it these days seems most of the old boy still M.I.A in Jhb.

Hope you get a couple Boys to come ease the load soon.

Over and out.:)

ASD

10th Sep 2005, 17:33

FACT has just lost 2 ACC controllers to the sandpit...

Heard rumours that the middle east is looking for atc's that only need to be aerodrome rated and validated, if that is the case, ATNS can look forward to losing even more ATC's.

Plenty of ATC's in the system waiting for their time to make their move.

ATNS need to seriously do something to retain their highly qualified staff. Whats gonna happen come 2010?

Dct no speed

11th Sep 2005, 06:48

Hozit

Just stumbled on to Mr Barnard issue under African Aviation under headline When ATC Mess up or something. It is a while ago now but what is this tossers problem ? Trow me a bone here...

He sounds like the type who don't use full callsigns,don't read back and then gets p :mad: if he does not get the left or a vis.

Seems Doha, Muscat and Bahrain are looking !I have a source inside the Kremlin that can confirm this. Check out Serco should they stay or go .

DCT No Speed 03L ? :)

divingduck

11th Sep 2005, 09:43

ASD

Where did these 2 controllers go?
Were they Area or Approach?

ASD

11th Sep 2005, 11:17

Not to sure exactly where they went - but definitely somewhere in the desert :hmm:

They were Area controllers whilst in FACT but if I am not mistaken they are qualified APP/TWR controllers too.

FACT also had a few controllers return from the middle east, but they were treated unfairly I believe and put on the salary scale similar to those with no experience. Hence they returned to the sandpit :E

makeapullup

14th Sep 2005, 17:38

hey there 126.7. aren't you just a fountain of knowledge. there definitely were 2 swedes. left about 2 years ago back to stockholm. they were here for about 2 years and a pleasure to work with. seems no-one can believe anything you post!

porra

14th Sep 2005, 23:03

The 2 are in Abu Dhabi now, having worked FACT area for a short while after a transfer from FAPE where they did it all.. They told me ATNS were refusing to pay them the FACT station allowance 'cos they were working Area E(PE's airspace) - wonder who the brain behind that decision is...!??

Porra

radioexcel

15th Sep 2005, 11:24

ATNS still mixed-up!!! :confused:

Get ATC's back from the ME but pin salaries on 5yrs max for experience...no credit given for 5 to 8 yrs ME experience.(or for that matter any amount of previous years experience with ATNS)

or

Importing ATC's for S America, getting them validated (which take a long time in certain ATNS Centres) and then give them the boot after 2 years...even if they prefer to stay and work in SA??

or

They offer a job, make all nice arrangements...but then decide to change their minds in demanding unrealistic changes to the arrangements causing a guy to sit without a job having already resigned from his present job...... GOOD show ATNS :ouch:

Me think they will never learn!!

Good luck to you guys and girls doing such a great (unappreciated) job in SA.

Hi Ruscle (GfJ)

126,7

15th Sep 2005, 16:13

makeapullup
Sorry, forgot about the swedish couple. Long term memory failure on my part. But all the other gen is correct huh? Am sure you'll correct me where I talk tripe. Tks.

makeapullup

15th Sep 2005, 19:21

126 7. no problem. that's what ATC's do best. cheers

TMAguide

17th Sep 2005, 16:34

:ok:
Hoezit julle!

As one of the CT acc controllers who is now at Abu Dhabs approach, I can only say that I am a happy camper. I had my reasons for leaving, it was always a long term goal to get overseas (oversand) experience, broaden the horizons outta the R of SA. It was just sped up when I was being paid a PE salary for close on a year in the expensive CT city where every month I was digging a deeper and deeper hole financially.
Money aside, I am loving this experience. I hope to be here for a while, and any of you SEffricans who want help or advice, give me a buzz....
:cool:

Hey porra:ok:

expediteclimb

21st Sep 2005, 18:41

I've decided to finally post something on this site after just reading everyone elses opinion. I have to start by saying that although these posts are semi-anonymous it's going to be quite obvious to alot of people who I am but I have to say something....

I've been with ATNS for about 20 months now and i believe that i am the only foreigner to come to these shores from NATS.

There are some partial truths in what has already been said on this topic. Most of the controllers would be too afraid to be completely honest about the situation here.

Alot of controllers have left recently. Some for the first time, a few came back and then left again, and there are plenty that are just waiting for there chance to up sticks and get out.

Aside from the money issue, which in my experience is always an issue wherever you are, there is one huge problem within ATNS and it is getting worse by the minute.

That problem can be summed up in one word...F E A R. The policy of this company when it comes to incident reporting, investigating and then action is quite frankly scandalous. Coming from the NATS environment, in which controllers are encouraged to report incidents, even when they are to blame, people here are scared stiff.

It seems to me, that the attitude here, is that the controller is guilty until proven partly responsible. You would not believe the draconian nature in which controllers are treated if they make a mistake. Incidents which would not even be reportable abroad, are turned into major events here. Controllers get suspended for ridiculous periods of time and are then told to do the most extreme things to get their ratings back.

I'm not sure exactly how much i should divulge for fear of being sued, suffice to say that it makes the work environment extremely difficult.

Fear should never be used in an Air Traffic environment because it is completely counter-productive. Controller's will not 'push the envelope' at all here coz if they screw up they know that there will be hell to pay. So they play it very safe indeed.

Don't get me wrong. The pilots here, get an unbelievably good service with respect to climb profiles, requested levels, speed restrictions, etc. Especially in Cape Town coz it's not that busy.
And funnily enough, some of the pilots here still complain. That took me along time to understand, but i guess thats just the way it is.

There are some fantastic people working for ATNS, we have state of the art equipment, well the computer system anyway, but I am certain that if something drastic doesn't happen alot more people will leave.

A wholesale change of attitude towards the controllers would be a good place to start, but there are alot of other issues too. There is so much potential here, but I believe that a serious rethink is necessary if ATNS is to hold on to its more senior staff and secondly improve as an ATC provider.

Nuff said!

I just forgot one thing...

Cape Town is a bloody expensive place to live if you are earning Rand!!

ZRH

21st Sep 2005, 21:20

ATNS is paying some European company a truckload of money to tell them what they already know: That the staff is desperately unhappy! I think this is about the second or third time that they have an independent census done. Always the same results and suggestions which ATNS then file far away.
You can get the folks to live with either a crappy salary or you can get them to live with crappy working conditions, but not both.
The big thing is that if you have an incident, there is no support from the company. There is only persecution. Management does invite you to attend mandatory counseling sessions where you then get told not to do it again or else!

ferris

22nd Sep 2005, 07:52

Makes it a bit clearer where the ex-Sth African "manager" over here is coming from.
Accountability is the magic word. Isn't there anyone they are accountable to, or is it like here where they are judge, jury and executioner? Certainly never accountable for their decisions or the way they behave here.

EXATC

22nd Sep 2005, 09:07

It's been 10 years since I last worked at FAJS and it's sad to see nothing has changed other than the equipment. EXPEDITECLIMB's comments were true in 1995 also. Safety is one thing, treating ATC's like "criminals" is another. When oh when will they ever learn......

Another fish

22nd Sep 2005, 17:17

Good evening,

Looking forward to chat with all of you, new to the site.

Seems, there's a lot of info going around, have some of my own to share (particularly about the FAJS ATC that got "sacked".

I am an ATC employed by ATNS, so all these topics are very interesting.

Keep well.

nailman

27th Sep 2005, 04:19

I see on the Flight Intl website that ATNS posted job for ATC for twr/app. Have they decided to catch a wake up and start getting people in so they can train more people that is for so many years in the system. But then again they tried this before if I am not mistaking and to my knowledge it did not realy work. Lets see if it will work this time.

Lets hope this time they can keep the expats as well as the good old trusty workers of ATNS happy and keep them in the company.

niknak

27th Sep 2005, 10:40

I admit to knowing little about the cost of living and quality of life in S.A. , but the advert states a salary of around UK £32,000 plus allowances, with an age restriction of 35 and a five year contract.

That is a very low wage compared with UK salaries, and not even the bottom of the scale for twr/apc and apr, especially as anyone from the UK, if they stayed for the full five years, would have to renew their licenced ratings upon their return.

Not an appealing prospect for anyone from these parts I suspect.

Sandpit_king

27th Sep 2005, 13:50

So all you SA boys'n'girls, any information on the latest attempt at getting International ATCO's to your country? What's cost of living like on an equivalant Salary of approx £32K? What are extra allowances? Where is best out of the 3 places they are desparate?

Looking forward to the replies ;)

Sandpit_king

nailman

27th Sep 2005, 17:28

Well to start off with if you look at the offer of R310987 to the pound a month I think you looking at about 28k a month and the station allowance is not much to right home about for Bloem and East London it is about R1600. At least you get a good medical insurance not to bad pension fund. The JHB allowance is much higher than the other one's. I think it is about R7500 not sure. TFC wise you can have a look at ACSA website where they list the average movements for these station. Bloem being the least then EL then JHB being the busy one of all station in SA. Housing in the other two towns are high but not crazy like JHB and the towns are also nice and relaxed not a rush pit like JHB. Good climate all around.

Hope this helps feel free to ask more,will se where I can help. :ok:

Sandpit_king

27th Sep 2005, 17:54

Thanks for reply Nailman.

Notice on the ATNS ad that they don't stipulate any experience requirements....hows that? Is that why Salary is so low, especially as cost of living is allegedly so high?

What's the working conditions like? Do they pay Internationals any kind of re-location expenses/allowances?

Looks like from your profile you left recently, any particular reason? Are you enjoying the UAE, from what I hear there are plenty SA's there too?

Sandpit_king

126,7

28th Sep 2005, 07:07

Sandpit_king

There have been numerous threads on these boards about ATC in South Africa. Try the search function or read through some of the following threads.
Here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=85511&highlight=south+africa+atc+atns)
or
Here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=188916)

Hope that helps.

nailman

28th Sep 2005, 07:57

Hi again Sandpit King

The salary they offer is equel to a PATC in SA with 5 years experience, so I think they are looking at some one with about that much experience. I am not sure about relocation.

Working conditions are not to bad. In BL and JHB they have the new SAAATS system which is a Eurocat system same as AUS system. This is not a bad system cuts down your liason. JHB Intl is a very busy centre and BL and EL is moderate stations.

In BL you have some schedule flights(SA Express,AirLink, A/C types CARJ;DHC8;JS41 and military flights(there is a military training school for chopper pilots, AlC types AS32;Alo3;Agusta) you also get other military flights in and BL is situated in the centre of SA you also work two TMA's and some times combined twr/app.

EL is on the east coast with mainly schedule flights mainly low cost airlines flying in there now.(A/C types B732,3,8; DC9; DHC8;CARJ;JS41) that is just some of the main a/c I can think of. There is also a popular training school close to EL 43 Airschool. In EL they also have radar but not same as other stations yet.

SA is not that bad, being in the UAE for a few months now and where I am stationed I would rather work in SA, they are much more organised. The company has ISO status aswell. The only benefit in this place is that fuel and cars and some day to day stuff are cheaper but some times its not worth it.

Hope this can help. I can send you an e-mail if you want more detailed info if you like.

Another fish

28th Sep 2005, 17:59

Evening,

RE the salary offered, it's more than what the ATC's earn here, depending on the year's experience. One of the allowances, station allowance, is station specific and is calculated on the amount of movements and complexity of airspace. The USC allowance is approx. 2600 Pounds.

If you were starting out with zero year's experience, your basic salary, including pesion contribution from the company would be in the region of 19600 Pounds (if R11-50 buys 1 Pound).

Cheers!!!!

Another fish

29th Sep 2005, 19:01

Evening,

I have not seen the ad in Flight International myself, but the salary offered in SA Rands, seem to be quite good. I will give you an average breakdown of living costs in SA. These costs are only average and not 100% on the ball.

Salary package:
The salary packages normally offered by ATNS includes: Basic salary, USC (Unfavorable Service Conditions) allowance and Company pension fund contribution. Station allowance, which is station specific and medical aid are over and above.

To give you an idea of station allowances: Non-radar station R900-R1900. Small radar station R1600-R2000. The station allowance if Cape Town is R4500 and in Jo'burg R7800 (both these will depend on the validations held at the respective centres).

Property:
Property in SA is expensive. In Jo'burg and average 3 bed roomed town house will cost R600 000 to R1 million, with price depending on the area in which you buy. Lots of people live in security complexes, and an additional levy is payable (this normally includes rates and taxes, water consumption etc.). Living in Cape Town and various coastal areas can be quite expensive with the same properties going for R750 000 to R1,2 million. At the current interest rates, you will be looking at paying an installment of 10% of the purchase price. Rentals are 5-7% of the purchase price.

Taxes:
The highest income tax rate is 42%. Prices for goods on shelves at the shops already have VAT of 14% added, unless otherwise stated.

Transport and insurances:
Prices of vehicles are obviously dependent on the class of vehicle. An entry level vehicle [VW, Vauxhall (known in SA as OPEL)] will cost R80 000, intermediate level (VW, OPEL, Peugot or Renault) R150 000 and luxury (Volvo, BMW, Mercedes or Audi) R250 000 plus. Insurance is dependent on where you live, for instance in Jo'burg you insurance will be higher that on the coastal areas. Your household insurance (based on the value of R200 000) and vehicle insurance (for 2 intermediate level vehicles) will probably come to R1000 to R2000, depending on what deal you get with a broker. Petrol is R6 per liter.

Schooling:
If you have kids, it would be better to put them into a private school. Government schools are often overcrowded with the ration being 1 teacher to 35 kids, in some cases more. Private schooling will put you back R40 000 per year and this excludes uniforms, text books and extra mural activities. Although expensive, I think it is worth it.

Groceries:
Average 4 person family could get away with R2500 per month on groceries, excluding meat. Meat prices are between R25 and R35 per kilo, depending on what meat you buy.

Odds and ends:
The going rate for a domestic worker is R80 per day and some will expect you to also pay their taxi fare.
Chivas Regal 750 ml R180
Jack Daniels 750 ml R150
Heineken (cans or bottles) R130 per case of 24.

There are currently international controllers at Cape Town, Jo'burg and Port Elizabeth.

Maybe "expediteclimb" can add some more info or tips to potential expats.

Hope this will or has helped.

Pleasant evening to all.

In the hot seat

29th Sep 2005, 22:25

LOOK BEFORE YOU LEAP!!!

There's a reason ATNS can't keep their staff. Your research should include MUCH MUCH more than living costs and working conditions.

Go to www.kuduclub.com and watch afew of the recent clips from a Sunday night TV programme called Carte Blanche.

Keep an open mind but again, look before you leap!!! :hmm:

What are they offering???

Just seen the offer online. R310 000 is OK if ATNS gives you the same benefits as those afforded to full time employees ie medical and pension benefits. If they don\'t, you\'re screwed!!! Medical costs in SA are getting frightfully expensive and a medical aid scheme for a small family could set you back about R5000 per month. MAKE SURE THAT THEY WILL INCLUDE YOU IN THE COMPANY\'S SCHEME.

East London is a small coastal town which resembles a public loo.
Bloemfontein is a dusty version of the above but has rose gardens.
Johannesburg is :mad: chaotic in terms of traffic (air and road) and general life style. The only good thing about Jo\'burg is the GREAT bunch of ATC\'s. You couldn\'t hope for a better bunch of guys and gals and gays (Hallo approach pool):ok:

CCP

30th Sep 2005, 15:37

SA is a great place to live and work (depends on which city of course!)

If you looking for a change and a bit of adventure then the offer sounds good.

However I would not give up a good paying UK controller salary to come and work on contract here... I am sure it aint worth it.

Remember the reason that they need you is because they cant make their local employees happy.

Otherwise good luck to those applying and look forward to working with you all soon.

radioexcel

6th Oct 2005, 12:58

For all those of you who considers the ATNS advertisement.
Here are some facts you can work on:
R310987 gross salary package pa (R25 915.50 pm), after tax you will be left with R17 000.00 (a fact)(all alowances included)
From this you must survive.
Living cost as follows:

Agevage house (R550 000) payment R 5 500.00
Medical (2 persons) R 1 700.00
Fuel (just to/from work) R 900.00
Car payment (R140 000 small car/5yrs) R 3 100.00
Insurance (Car/house/house hold) R 800.00
Telephone R 400.00
Municipal cost (water/electricity/tax) R 1 000.00
Furniture???? R 1 000.00
Groceries (absolute minimum) R 3000.00

Total R17 400.00

Oops you're already over buget and you have not even started living yet, no money for eating out/booze/sight seeing/ saving/school fees/airline tickets. Maybe rent a house.. R4000.00, second hand car etc etc.

Still wonder why people leave... yes because they cannot survive in SA on ATNS salary performing such a demanding job.
Also wondered why the grass is always greener on the other side???? ...much more sh... on that side.

Good luck

126,7

6th Oct 2005, 18:23

radioexcel
That about sums up my budget. Just add the private school fees for the kids and you are even further over budget!
From the money I earn abroad, I send home roughly R20k / month and still have most of the luxuries I could want, like regular flights to SA. And ATNS ask themselves why the folks all run off.
The best thing the chaps in SA could do for themselves is learn one of the European languages, like German or French. Austria is at the moment leasing 10 ATCs from Germany to work in Vienna Center and the Swiss will be taking 5-6 foreign ATCs to start in Geneva UAC sometime soon. (French not a requirement btw) Heard that some of the Macedonians from JNB will be making the move to GVA.
Sweden is looking at trying to get all their countrymen back to Sweden as they are desperately short too! So the world is yours!

Saku

8th Oct 2005, 06:38

Hi guys and gals,

Coming from Europe or some other inhabited place to Johannesburg is really terrible idea - I know I'have done it. There is a huge problem here besides salaries and living costs, about what no-one ever talks. It is called CRIME. You can't walk around Joburg city because it's too dangerous, white people you can see only inside malls and cars. There is no public transport in Johannesburg, or at least white people are not using it. There is lot's of armed hijacking and they won't hesitate to kill you. So life basically goes from electric fenced security complex to secure mall or office park. If this is the life style you like...
Despite all that the ATC's rock here in Jo'burg, they are the best!
The truth is that most of local ATC's here are leaving for ME. We have had day's in JNB APP with only 3 ATC's per shift, yet we move around 100 movements per hour. The worse is that nobody cares!
Cheers,
Saku

TAVLA Northbound

11th Oct 2005, 00:22

To add to Saku's post ...

Yes, the controllers in JHB are the best bunch you're likely to find anywhere. Having been in and around the Jo'burg centre for 15 years and having left it, this fact is VERY obvious. They truly are great both as mates and colleagues.

However, only now that I've been out of SA for 2 months, can I see how stressful it is just to live day by day there. I'm not going to go into the gory details but life is very gritty in SA and you need a strong constitution to look past the nasty realities.

Bottom line, if you have a lust for adventure and money isn't an option, Jo'burg will be the best thing you could do. If you have a family and/or a respect for the rule of law, don't go.

kind regards:ok:

nailman

11th Oct 2005, 05:53

You guys say that JHB has such great colleagues, which is not all that true.

What about all the back stabbing that is going on that you can almost take out the knive out of some one's back.
Some peolple will even talk behind somebodies back (actually infront of him, trying not to make it that obvious) in the break room.

Please understand I am not saying that all the staff are like that, but be fore worned that you do get those type of people in JHB. But then again I suppose you get them where ever you go.

makeapullup

12th Oct 2005, 18:49

hello canadian friend. how cold is it. been skiing lately? got any spaces in your restroom?

TAVLA Northbound

13th Oct 2005, 03:24

Temperature hanging around the single digits, although yesterday was short sleeved shirt weather.

Skiing starts at the end of the month and I've got new everything. Dying to give snowboarding a bash at last.

LOTS of place in the restroom!!! Most ATC's here are coining around $150 000 with all the overtime. Just got to work on that sticky little security clearance issue for you guys .......... watch this space:ok:

Nookie2nite

14th Oct 2005, 08:36

I agree with Nailman...have a few mates in Jhb, everywhere in SA infact, and well I guess most would say they have great work mates....in my new enviroment I also have some great new work mates.....but honestly I have never come across such money hungry bunch of ATCs as in Jhb who only look after themselves when it comes to salary neg etc. Jhb app, n and s acc work hard and deserve their station allow, but central and east....what a joke! Anyway, my point of view......

n2n

Tweety

27th Nov 2005, 13:17

hhhhhhhhhhh hmmmmmmmmm

Nookie2nite

27th Nov 2005, 18:28

Been waiting for response on this thread....have to say after all this time...sorry to say Tweety.....I was REALLY disappointed:D

N2n:ok:

Dct no speed

27th Nov 2005, 20:30

So I started something long ago by asking whats up in SA ATC, how sad to see so many good guys and girls having to suffer because of the management at ATNS!

What I can not understand is that every time the company has a change in the Top structure, all these great promises are made but all turns to nothing in the end.

The worst thing in SA is that the so called 'Union" has no balls to take issues further to international level to report these issues.It is not healthy for a company to loose so many of its to quality controllers to other parts of the world.

I feel for those guys who whant to leave but can not good luck guys and keep up the great work, miss my mates Joburg!

:D