Solo nav

[Sul]

Hey guys,

I've done my first solo nav and that went fine, was just a short trip over-flying another airfield and back. However, tomorrow I have another solo nav, a longer route, where I land at another airfield. I am a little nervous - are there ant tips or errors you know I should avoid which you happen to know through experience?

[Maxflyer]

Plan well and consider the wind when aloft. Often different to that forecast. Once you're settled stick to your heading. It's easier if you find yourself off track.

Also study your route well before. Remember significant landmarks etc.

[nouseforaname]

Thing I found with all my solo's. When you get started make sure that you keep on your heading. I remember getting slightly lost and then thinking i'd found the valley and town that i was looking for and followed it. If only i'd looked at my heading i would have seen that I was 20 degress off!

So always check what you see out of the window with your heading to make sure the 2 correspond with each other.

You'll come back tomorrow wondering what you were worrying about..enjoy it

TD

[Tiger_ Moth]

Always look from the ground to the map, not the other way round, ie don't look at your map and then look for a feature to match it because you'll subconsciously persuade yourself that maybe something which doesn't quite fit is what's on your map.

Ground to map!

[IO540]

THE way to get lost when navigating PPL-style is to "positively" identify a feature on the ground, but it's not the right one. With a bit more bad luck, one can repeat the same error 10 miles later. Then one is a bit stuffed.

What I found most helpful when I used to do this was to try to look for unusual features on the ground. The most unusual shapes one can find matching on the map.

People train to look for well known VRPs but a lot of them aren't obvious. The other day I was asked by Cranfield to report at Woburn Abbey and (some of you will take the p1ss here) it was only with the GPS that I found it! The place is just a big church; churches of various sizes are everywhere. Their ILS was busy with trainers and they could see I was able to arrive VFR.

Whereas a strange shaped lake, or a unusual piece of coastline, will give a far more positive ID when matched against the chart. Round or oval lakes are everywhere! Villages are hopeless unless again they are a very odd shape. Same for roads; look for unusual junctions. Just a road is no good; they all look the same.

That said, dead reckoning (timing on a heading) is accurate if one flies the heading accurately.

[Flap40]

No piss taking, but look at http://www.woburnabbey.co.uk/

It's not a church.

[scubawasp]

Tiger_ Moth

Whilst I understand that you're tryining to help, it is very dangerous to give a student totally wrong advice. Leave it to instructors please!

The correct method is

Stopwatch - Map - Ground

NEVER

ground - map

[Keygrip]

Often found that - due to not synchronising them - the DIRECTION INDICATOR tells you where you think you are heading - the COMPASS would tell you (if you looked at it) where you are actually heading.

[EGTC]

Hi Sul, I've also just started doing my first bits of solo Nav. I tend not to be to nervous above the actual navigation but more about the weather en route, if the cloud base is lowering and showers are starting to pop up, but I always feel proud of myself when I'm back on the ground.

I'm certainly not in a position to start giving advice but I always plan en-route diversions before departure, usually one from each turning point on my route. So if its necessary to divert, when I get to the next turning point, I already have a heading, time and frequency to the nearest diversion airfield. Never had to use this but it makes me feel safer, tuning the nearest VORs helps to. Good luck with your first solo land away.

The other day I was asked by Cranfield to report at Woburn Abbey and (some of you will take the p1ss here) it was only with the GPS that I found it! The place is just a big church; churches of various sizes are everywhere
I certainly won't be taking the p1ss, I train at Cranfield and it took me lots and lots of worburn circuit joins be be able to positively identify it each time. The usual reporting point is Woburn Town, which is at the end of the road leading up to the abbey. Its one of those that you can't see too well until your over it, so I usually reference to milton keynes when approaching Woburn, just to check.

[Tiger_ Moth]

I was taught that if you're lost then look at the ground then look for the features on your map, not the other way round.

But you're the instructor so I suppose you know best

[slim_slag]

Quite right tiger_moth.

Sul, plan your route so you can navigate via landmarks that you can see some way off and not mistake. Doesn't matter if you go on a round about route, you can fly direct when you get a bit more experience. Keep an eye on the weather and make sure you have enough fuel. Apart from that, have fun, it's not rocket science and the biggest problem is what is in your head.

[hingey]

One of the comments my examiner made after passing my skills test was that I should navigate from Map to Ground. So you should look at the time and say "Now I should have a large town to my 2 o'clock, a woodland area and high ground to my right and a lake about 9 o'clock." etc. I find this works better for me and also seems to make more sense.

If the worst comes to the worst you can always ask where you are. You have nothing to lose but your dignity!

h

[FullyFlapped]

Scubawasp,

Whilst I understand that you're tryining to help, it is very dangerous to give a student totally wrong advice. Leave it to instructors please!
Absolutely.

Although some of them have some good advice, too ... :D

FF :ok:

[slim_slag]

Ah, should have followed the thread from beginning, there was a bit of a Russian Eye slant there.....

If not lost, map to ground.

If lost, ground to map.

[Sul]

Thank you very much for your comments & advice - very helpful :D

My solo nav had to be cancelled today due to very poor visibility, but I'm now going to do it at the first available opportunity this week, and at least now I have more time to read and mull over the comments you've given here and I'll keep them in mind.

Thanks again and I look forward to any more advice you may have!

[Tiger_ Moth]

thanks for clariflying that slim slag, my comments were meant to be about when you are lost but looking back I accept it was not clear in the post. I will be more careful in future.

[Kolibear]

Navigation relying on compass and stopwatch is very much an act of faith. We know the theory, we know that it works but actually throwing the map in the back and flying course & time requires a bit of courage to do.

I like maps, there is a 1/2 mil chart pinned up on the wall in front of me at work

So my advice is to learn your map. Start on you local area, take a map up with you and ask your instructor point out the landmarks. Ask here on pprune if anyone has an old map they would like to donate to you.

Once your are happy with the local area, widen your scope. Look at the relatiomship between towns, road, rivers and railways. I like railways as they always stand out against the landscape.

When you come to do your nav. flights, learn the route, go down it inch by inch so you know what to expect; keep the river on your left and watch out for a town on the right.

Remember the 5Ps -Preflight Planning Prevents Pi55-poor Performance.

[IO540]

Kolibear

Unfortunately, most people don't take the view that flying should be a sport for masochists :O

The process you describe is great for knowing the local area, which is OK for instructors who rarely get a chance to fly past the nearest crease in the chart, but flying just locally at £100+ per hour gets dead boring very quickly, for most people. A real pilot going to real places needs to be able to plan a flight and fly there, without working out if/where there are railways or whatever along the route.

As for railways, they can be OK until hidden among trees, and unfortunately there are other reasons for straight or gently curving lines of trees. Also above about 1000ft it's hard to make out that it's a railway.

A fresh PPL, wanting to go to interesting places without the constant worry about whether one has missed this or that ground feature, or forgot to restart the stopwatch, etc. should buy a decent GPS.

[High Wing Drifter]

All,
I have to admit, I'm one of those who can't understand what the problem is with map and clock navigation. It must be pointed out that my rather bold statement is born only from flying in this country. I imagine that GPS is fine (then again that depends, see my comment on the Drug Smuggling thread), but surely one must feel totally able to operate without aids.

Sul,
I agree with scubawasp: "clock, map then ground". I certainly don't agree that it is an act of faith, as this is the only method where, if you are off track you can quantify the error and decide if it was bad flying or a non-forcast wind that cause the problem. Both are easily rectifiable. It basically boils down to not starting the map to ground fixing process until you are within 3 mins of the feature. It works and naturally allows plenty of time for other tasks like looking out, R/T, etc.

It is important for a newbie is to pick things that stand out in preference to how far along the route the feature is. The one feature that can cause confusion is the hamlets (small yellow circle on the map) as they are not all on the chart!

The only reason to go from ground to map, is when you are uncertain of your position. All part of the learning process and in my view is probably inevitible on occasion. Its no big deal when it happens, and the cause could be choosing inappropriate features to navigate by or flying the wrong driection (gross error or DI out of sync). Don't be afraid to orbit and give yourself time to figure things out before proceeding in possibly, completely the wrong direction (or compounding whatever, the error you made was to cause the large devation from the intended track).

One essential tip is always orientate your map with the direction in which you are travelling. If you don't, it will catch you out sooner or later.

The other thing I've noticed with experience, is that I didn't really use all the features of the chart fully for quite sometime. Not sure why, just a case of being better able to orientate my surroundings to the chart. Regardless, I now find it much easier establishing fixes based on terrain, woods, etc.

Yes, it is a slow work day today :)

[scubawasp]

If you are LOST, forget all ground map etc, tell someone, if not who you're talking to then 121.5 - TELL THEM, you will not lose face and more importantly you will stay alive and not bust airspace. Remember 121.5, they WILL help you and even help you get home.

[EGTC]

Theres a few things to do if you get lost. I you've tuned the nearest VOR/DMEs then you can get a position fix straight away, no messing around. Depending what frequency your on you could ask for a QDM, or even better if your recieving a LARS from someone then just ask where you are, they know.

[High Wing Drifter]

What is the difference between beeing uncertain of your position and being lost? Lets be clear about this, with attendant risk of this thread running to 30 pages, I would say: Being uncertain is when you know you are near your intended position, but you simply haven't confirmed this with the identification of features, it is virtually part and parcel of DR navigation! Being lost is accepting that you really have no confidence in your position and can probably only happen if you flew in the wrong direction than intended and you didn't time the leg (or found yourself in IMC, but that is another issue). In theory at least, if you timed the leg then, even if you flew anywhere between 30 and 60 deg out, you still know where abouts you are.

[EGTC]

I always thought "temporarily unsure of position" is just a better way of saying lost. If I'm unsure of my position I'd called that lost.

[Sul]

Hey

Just an update - my solo nav was delayed initially due to bad weather and me falling ill in between (stomach bug or something...) but I'm well now and yesterday went for my solo nav. The nav to the airfield went amazingly well - timing was perfect, headings were great, and I didn't find myself off course even once. All the time I was in the air I kept repeating Aviate Navigate Comm and it worked out really well. So I landed at the airfield, felt a great sense of achievement and was quite happy with myself!

Then on the outbound flight, I'm doing the power checks and I get a huge rpm drop and the engine starts to sputter and sound really rough! And I'm thinking "please no, not on my first land away!".. anyway, so I followed the instructions in my checklist, to no avail. Called my instructor up and he gave me more instructions - tried those, still to no avail. In the end, a friendly chap came over and suggested I should ask the maintainence guy that just happened to be parking another plane just opposite me. So they have a look at the plane, found a dead spark plug, and by the time it all got fixed, around 2 hours had passed since I landed and the airfield had become unlicensed. Anyway, a couple of instructors came over in another plane to pick me up and we flew out.

Just thought I'd share this with you guys. My first land away was a bit more eventful than I thought, but I loved the trip flying over to the airfield on my own and I just can't wait to do it again.

[White Bear]

I’m a little surprised no one has suggested that all marked land marks be within a few miles of each other, so as you over fly one, the next one is already in sight. (Or perhaps this is a given in the U.K.?)

During my first X country, the winds aloft were much higher, and from a different direction than forecast. I discovered that in order to follow my track, I had to steer over 20 deg off my planned course in order to follow the landmarks I had marked on the map. It was a huge confidence builder and I learned some important lessons. Never rely on forecasts. Keep your head out of the cockpit in VFR. Know how much fuel you have, and how long will that fuel keep you aloft. I’ve had many a X country fight take almost double the estimated time because of unexpected, that is not forecasted, strong headwinds.

I0 540 is right about getting a ‘GPS’ but IMHO with one caveat, do so after learning how to navigate from and with maps. In this the old ways are good to know, but if you really want to know where you are, and how long it’s actually going to take you to get to where you are going, get a decent GPS, and keep spare batteries on hand, even if it’s powered by the aircraft.
Regards,
W.B.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I’m a little surprised no one has suggested that all marked land marks be within a few miles of each other, so as you over fly one, the next one is already in sight. Nah, too easy, too boring.

Seriously though, you can't always do that. Over East Anglia, on a clear day from FL95 in a C172 you can see pretty well the whole coast, so any navigation consists simply of spotting your destination and pointing at it.

But on a bad day, scraping along at 1500' beneath the cloud with visibility on your minimum, you might be able to see nothing for minutes at a time but lots of wiggly little roads, all alike, lots of tiny little villages, all alike, lots of wiggly little streams, none of them on the map. So even if you wanted to you couldn't pick landmarks within sight of each other as there simply aren't any.

[Johnm]

When I was doing this not very long ago, I found that there were a few things that gave me some basic confidence.

The first was really detailed planning and putting the details on the chart as I was taught, no short cuts. The fan lines in particular were a big help in looking for features and I used features way points. Note that you won't see features if you fly over them, so the fan lines help you to spot useful landmarks either side of your track.

The second was FREDA checks especially DI and Compass alignment and then you can recheck your drift about every 10 mins or so at features.

The third was asking other pilots how to spot the other airfield when I got there!

Good luck! I was so chuffed after my first solo landaway it was ridiculous!

[High Wing Drifter]

I’m a little surprised no one has suggested that all marked land marks be within a few miles of each other, so as you over fly one, the next one is already in sight. (Or perhaps this is a given in the U.K.?)
If I understand you correctly, I disagree with that as a suitable technique. To me, the fundemental aspect of not getting lost is knowing not only where you were, but what time you were there. If you require 90+% of your attention simply to feature hop, then something else will be left out sooner or later. A good 10-15 mins between features allows plenty of time to look at the sky, FREDA, prep the next call, update the map/PLOG, etc, etc. But not necessarily at the expense of a fix on a really really easy to spot feature.

Sul,

Congrats fellah! I reckon you had a very valuable flight and you seemed to handle it all very professionally. Nice one :ok:

[Gertrude the Wombat]

The third was asking other pilots how to spot the other airfield when I got there! I find the aerial photos in multimap quite helpful.

[FlyingForFun]

Congrats on finding the airfield easily! The whole point of the solo nav during the PPL course is to give you the confidence in the techniques you are being taught. It is sometimes hard to believe that they work, which is why people sometimes resort to using a GPS or feature-crawling after getting their license - but if you follow the advice on this thread, all of your nav, dual or solo, will work absolutely fine without any fancy gadgets.

One other thing to add to the good advice already given, for your next nav trip - when you're looking for a turning point, make sure you study your chart and identify features which will uniquely identify it.

For example, there's a town near to my home airfield which I take most of my students to. Most of them identify it by saying it lies next to a motorway and a railway line. That's true, it does - but so do the next three towns. When I ask my students how they can be sure it's not some other town, they usually run out of ideas.... until I point out the relationship of the motorway and the railway. Alongside the town, they are right next to each other, but just a mile or so north of the town, they split apart in a "Y" shape - a feature which is unique to this particular town. That's the kind of feature which gives you the confidence in your navigation.

FFF
-----------------

[White Bear]

HWD,
quote:
________________________________________
If you require 90+% of your attention simply to feature hop,
________________________________________

This is rather overstating the case don’t you think?
If you have the next landmark in sight, I’d think you’d more likely to relax, and look around, rather than search the ground in an effort to penetrate the gloom.
W.B.

[High Wing Drifter]

WB,
This is rather overstating the case don’t you think?
Hmm, perhaps :) If I took that method literally, I do think it would take alot of your attention compared with the map down until 3mins to go method. I do suspect, that without the timing the leg, you will also work harder at positively identing features. Especially in more challenging conditions.

[Pierre Argh]

"Now I should have a large town to my 2 o'clock, a woodland area and high ground to my right and a lake about 9 o'clock.
The big problem comes... which I think is the point others have made... when you can see a large town in your 2 o'clock with a wooded area and high ground... but the lake seems to have disappeared... You'd be amazed how easy it is to be fooled into accepting that you're still on track (been there, done that!)

One tip I was given was, for what it's worth, when planning look for funnel features i.e. a river coming in from your right hand side and a railway to your left, crossing over a bridge ahead. You should be able to pick up the line features sometime before you approach the bridge and so reassure yourself that you are on track?

[slim_slag]

Well done sul. Those checklists are worth their weight in gold, eh? Remember that, don't get complacent, and do some googling on "scud running"