Solo nav
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Joined: Sep 2004
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From: UK
Solo nav
Hey guys,
I've done my first solo nav and that went fine, was just a short trip over-flying another airfield and back. However, tomorrow I have another solo nav, a longer route, where I land at another airfield. I am a little nervous - are there ant tips or errors you know I should avoid which you happen to know through experience?
I've done my first solo nav and that went fine, was just a short trip over-flying another airfield and back. However, tomorrow I have another solo nav, a longer route, where I land at another airfield. I am a little nervous - are there ant tips or errors you know I should avoid which you happen to know through experience?
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Io
Plan well and consider the wind when aloft. Often different to that forecast. Once you're settled stick to your heading. It's easier if you find yourself off track.
Also study your route well before. Remember significant landmarks etc.
Also study your route well before. Remember significant landmarks etc.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 395
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From: London
Thing I found with all my solo's. When you get started make sure that you keep on your heading. I remember getting slightly lost and then thinking i'd found the valley and town that i was looking for and followed it. If only i'd looked at my heading i would have seen that I was 20 degress off!
So always check what you see out of the window with your heading to make sure the 2 correspond with each other.
You'll come back tomorrow wondering what you were worrying about..enjoy it
TD
So always check what you see out of the window with your heading to make sure the 2 correspond with each other.
You'll come back tomorrow wondering what you were worrying about..enjoy it
TD
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 382
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From: England
Always look from the ground to the map, not the other way round, ie don't look at your map and then look for a feature to match it because you'll subconsciously persuade yourself that maybe something which doesn't quite fit is what's on your map.
Ground to map!
Ground to map!
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
THE way to get lost when navigating PPL-style is to "positively" identify a feature on the ground, but it's not the right one. With a bit more bad luck, one can repeat the same error 10 miles later. Then one is a bit stuffed.
What I found most helpful when I used to do this was to try to look for unusual features on the ground. The most unusual shapes one can find matching on the map.
People train to look for well known VRPs but a lot of them aren't obvious. The other day I was asked by Cranfield to report at Woburn Abbey and (some of you will take the p1ss here) it was only with the GPS that I found it! The place is just a big church; churches of various sizes are everywhere. Their ILS was busy with trainers and they could see I was able to arrive VFR.
Whereas a strange shaped lake, or a unusual piece of coastline, will give a far more positive ID when matched against the chart. Round or oval lakes are everywhere! Villages are hopeless unless again they are a very odd shape. Same for roads; look for unusual junctions. Just a road is no good; they all look the same.
That said, dead reckoning (timing on a heading) is accurate if one flies the heading accurately.
What I found most helpful when I used to do this was to try to look for unusual features on the ground. The most unusual shapes one can find matching on the map.
People train to look for well known VRPs but a lot of them aren't obvious. The other day I was asked by Cranfield to report at Woburn Abbey and (some of you will take the p1ss here) it was only with the GPS that I found it! The place is just a big church; churches of various sizes are everywhere. Their ILS was busy with trainers and they could see I was able to arrive VFR.
Whereas a strange shaped lake, or a unusual piece of coastline, will give a far more positive ID when matched against the chart. Round or oval lakes are everywhere! Villages are hopeless unless again they are a very odd shape. Same for roads; look for unusual junctions. Just a road is no good; they all look the same.
That said, dead reckoning (timing on a heading) is accurate if one flies the heading accurately.
Joined: Aug 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: UK
Joined: Jan 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: here
Tiger_ Moth
Whilst I understand that you're tryining to help, it is very dangerous to give a student totally wrong advice. Leave it to instructors please!
The correct method is
Stopwatch - Map - Ground
NEVER
ground - map
Whilst I understand that you're tryining to help, it is very dangerous to give a student totally wrong advice. Leave it to instructors please!
The correct method is
Stopwatch - Map - Ground
NEVER
ground - map
Last edited by scubawasp; 4th September 2005 at 12:01.
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From: Orlando, Florida
Often found that - due to not synchronising them - the DIRECTION INDICATOR tells you where you think you are heading - the COMPASS would tell you (if you looked at it) where you are actually heading.
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: UK
Hi Sul, I've also just started doing my first bits of solo Nav. I tend not to be to nervous above the actual navigation but more about the weather en route, if the cloud base is lowering and showers are starting to pop up, but I always feel proud of myself when I'm back on the ground.
I'm certainly not in a position to start giving advice but I always plan en-route diversions before departure, usually one from each turning point on my route. So if its necessary to divert, when I get to the next turning point, I already have a heading, time and frequency to the nearest diversion airfield. Never had to use this but it makes me feel safer, tuning the nearest VORs helps to. Good luck with your first solo land away.
I certainly won't be taking the p1ss, I train at Cranfield and it took me lots and lots of worburn circuit joins be be able to positively identify it each time. The usual reporting point is Woburn Town, which is at the end of the road leading up to the abbey. Its one of those that you can't see too well until your over it, so I usually reference to milton keynes when approaching Woburn, just to check.
I'm certainly not in a position to start giving advice but I always plan en-route diversions before departure, usually one from each turning point on my route. So if its necessary to divert, when I get to the next turning point, I already have a heading, time and frequency to the nearest diversion airfield. Never had to use this but it makes me feel safer, tuning the nearest VORs helps to. Good luck with your first solo land away.
The other day I was asked by Cranfield to report at Woburn Abbey and (some of you will take the p1ss here) it was only with the GPS that I found it! The place is just a big church; churches of various sizes are everywhere
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: He's on the limb to nowhere
Quite right tiger_moth.
Sul, plan your route so you can navigate via landmarks that you can see some way off and not mistake. Doesn't matter if you go on a round about route, you can fly direct when you get a bit more experience. Keep an eye on the weather and make sure you have enough fuel. Apart from that, have fun, it's not rocket science and the biggest problem is what is in your head.
Sul, plan your route so you can navigate via landmarks that you can see some way off and not mistake. Doesn't matter if you go on a round about route, you can fly direct when you get a bit more experience. Keep an eye on the weather and make sure you have enough fuel. Apart from that, have fun, it's not rocket science and the biggest problem is what is in your head.
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Behind a computer screen
One of the comments my examiner made after passing my skills test was that I should navigate from Map to Ground. So you should look at the time and say "Now I should have a large town to my 2 o'clock, a woodland area and high ground to my right and a lake about 9 o'clock." etc. I find this works better for me and also seems to make more sense.
If the worst comes to the worst you can always ask where you are. You have nothing to lose but your dignity!
h
If the worst comes to the worst you can always ask where you are. You have nothing to lose but your dignity!
h
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 664
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From: Yorkshire
Scubawasp,
Absolutely.
Although some of them have some good advice, too ...
FF
Whilst I understand that you're tryining to help, it is very dangerous to give a student totally wrong advice. Leave it to instructors please!
Although some of them have some good advice, too ...
FF
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 39
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From: UK
Thank you very much for your comments & advice - very helpful
My solo nav had to be cancelled today due to very poor visibility, but I'm now going to do it at the first available opportunity this week, and at least now I have more time to read and mull over the comments you've given here and I'll keep them in mind.
Thanks again and I look forward to any more advice you may have!
My solo nav had to be cancelled today due to very poor visibility, but I'm now going to do it at the first available opportunity this week, and at least now I have more time to read and mull over the comments you've given here and I'll keep them in mind.
Thanks again and I look forward to any more advice you may have!
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: SX in SX in UK
Navigation relying on compass and stopwatch is very much an act of faith. We know the theory, we know that it works but actually throwing the map in the back and flying course & time requires a bit of courage to do.
I like maps, there is a 1/2 mil chart pinned up on the wall in front of me at work
So my advice is to learn your map. Start on you local area, take a map up with you and ask your instructor point out the landmarks. Ask here on pprune if anyone has an old map they would like to donate to you.
Once your are happy with the local area, widen your scope. Look at the relatiomship between towns, road, rivers and railways. I like railways as they always stand out against the landscape.
When you come to do your nav. flights, learn the route, go down it inch by inch so you know what to expect; keep the river on your left and watch out for a town on the right.
Remember the 5Ps -Preflight Planning Prevents Pi55-poor Performance.
I like maps, there is a 1/2 mil chart pinned up on the wall in front of me at work
So my advice is to learn your map. Start on you local area, take a map up with you and ask your instructor point out the landmarks. Ask here on pprune if anyone has an old map they would like to donate to you.
Once your are happy with the local area, widen your scope. Look at the relatiomship between towns, road, rivers and railways. I like railways as they always stand out against the landscape.
When you come to do your nav. flights, learn the route, go down it inch by inch so you know what to expect; keep the river on your left and watch out for a town on the right.
Remember the 5Ps -Preflight Planning Prevents Pi55-poor Performance.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
Kolibear
Unfortunately, most people don't take the view that flying should be a sport for masochists
The process you describe is great for knowing the local area, which is OK for instructors who rarely get a chance to fly past the nearest crease in the chart, but flying just locally at £100+ per hour gets dead boring very quickly, for most people. A real pilot going to real places needs to be able to plan a flight and fly there, without working out if/where there are railways or whatever along the route.
As for railways, they can be OK until hidden among trees, and unfortunately there are other reasons for straight or gently curving lines of trees. Also above about 1000ft it's hard to make out that it's a railway.
A fresh PPL, wanting to go to interesting places without the constant worry about whether one has missed this or that ground feature, or forgot to restart the stopwatch, etc. should buy a decent GPS.
Unfortunately, most people don't take the view that flying should be a sport for masochists
The process you describe is great for knowing the local area, which is OK for instructors who rarely get a chance to fly past the nearest crease in the chart, but flying just locally at £100+ per hour gets dead boring very quickly, for most people. A real pilot going to real places needs to be able to plan a flight and fly there, without working out if/where there are railways or whatever along the route.
As for railways, they can be OK until hidden among trees, and unfortunately there are other reasons for straight or gently curving lines of trees. Also above about 1000ft it's hard to make out that it's a railway.
A fresh PPL, wanting to go to interesting places without the constant worry about whether one has missed this or that ground feature, or forgot to restart the stopwatch, etc. should buy a decent GPS.
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Posts: n/a
All,
I have to admit, I'm one of those who can't understand what the problem is with map and clock navigation. It must be pointed out that my rather bold statement is born only from flying in this country. I imagine that GPS is fine (then again that depends, see my comment on the Drug Smuggling thread), but surely one must feel totally able to operate without aids.
Sul,
I agree with scubawasp: "clock, map then ground". I certainly don't agree that it is an act of faith, as this is the only method where, if you are off track you can quantify the error and decide if it was bad flying or a non-forcast wind that cause the problem. Both are easily rectifiable. It basically boils down to not starting the map to ground fixing process until you are within 3 mins of the feature. It works and naturally allows plenty of time for other tasks like looking out, R/T, etc.
It is important for a newbie is to pick things that stand out in preference to how far along the route the feature is. The one feature that can cause confusion is the hamlets (small yellow circle on the map) as they are not all on the chart!
The only reason to go from ground to map, is when you are uncertain of your position. All part of the learning process and in my view is probably inevitible on occasion. Its no big deal when it happens, and the cause could be choosing inappropriate features to navigate by or flying the wrong driection (gross error or DI out of sync). Don't be afraid to orbit and give yourself time to figure things out before proceeding in possibly, completely the wrong direction (or compounding whatever, the error you made was to cause the large devation from the intended track).
One essential tip is always orientate your map with the direction in which you are travelling. If you don't, it will catch you out sooner or later.
The other thing I've noticed with experience, is that I didn't really use all the features of the chart fully for quite sometime. Not sure why, just a case of being better able to orientate my surroundings to the chart. Regardless, I now find it much easier establishing fixes based on terrain, woods, etc.
Yes, it is a slow work day today
I have to admit, I'm one of those who can't understand what the problem is with map and clock navigation. It must be pointed out that my rather bold statement is born only from flying in this country. I imagine that GPS is fine (then again that depends, see my comment on the Drug Smuggling thread), but surely one must feel totally able to operate without aids.
Sul,
I agree with scubawasp: "clock, map then ground". I certainly don't agree that it is an act of faith, as this is the only method where, if you are off track you can quantify the error and decide if it was bad flying or a non-forcast wind that cause the problem. Both are easily rectifiable. It basically boils down to not starting the map to ground fixing process until you are within 3 mins of the feature. It works and naturally allows plenty of time for other tasks like looking out, R/T, etc.
It is important for a newbie is to pick things that stand out in preference to how far along the route the feature is. The one feature that can cause confusion is the hamlets (small yellow circle on the map) as they are not all on the chart!
The only reason to go from ground to map, is when you are uncertain of your position. All part of the learning process and in my view is probably inevitible on occasion. Its no big deal when it happens, and the cause could be choosing inappropriate features to navigate by or flying the wrong driection (gross error or DI out of sync). Don't be afraid to orbit and give yourself time to figure things out before proceeding in possibly, completely the wrong direction (or compounding whatever, the error you made was to cause the large devation from the intended track).
One essential tip is always orientate your map with the direction in which you are travelling. If you don't, it will catch you out sooner or later.
The other thing I've noticed with experience, is that I didn't really use all the features of the chart fully for quite sometime. Not sure why, just a case of being better able to orientate my surroundings to the chart. Regardless, I now find it much easier establishing fixes based on terrain, woods, etc.
Yes, it is a slow work day today
Joined: Jan 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: here
If you are LOST, forget all ground map etc, tell someone, if not who you're talking to then 121.5 - TELL THEM, you will not lose face and more importantly you will stay alive and not bust airspace. Remember 121.5, they WILL help you and even help you get home.