Lundy Island

[Gingerbread Man]

Does anyone have any experience of landing here? It looks like a fun trip, especially as you get to practice carrier landings. I've only got 50 hours total, so would people suggest a lot of short field practice before attempting it?

Cheers, Ginge ;)

[windy1]

An unusual and challenging destination - see
http://www.devonstrut.co.uk/pages/airfields/lundyisland.htm

I believe someone took a Mooney in there, not noted for STOL performance or ground clearance, but whether it left in a container or by air I cannot recall.

[bar shaker]

I would think you would get a fair bit of headwind which would make up any lack of runway length.

[Gingerbread Man]

Wow, no wonder I couldn't find it on satellite photos! Sounds like a lot of guesswork is involved in finding the field itself, and it does seem to be a true air-'field'. Thanks for the link!

Ginge :)

[DaveW]

I'd also suggest a search for 'Lundy' on this site.

It has been discussed a number of times in the last couple of years, and you'll get advice from people who have been there.

[helicopter-redeye]

I go there most summers (for the Puffins y'know..)

You need permission of Ben The Warden the land (phone the office) and also to be aware of the rough nature of the strip (suits STOL and big wheel aircraft (Otters etc) but it is ROUGH).

I'll post a pic of it a bit later.

h-r:)

[Romeo Tango]

I have been in there quite a few times in a Robin Aiglon. For me it's half fuel and 2/4 occupants. Care required due to shortness, sheep and soft/rough ground.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Ginge,

Partly, it depends what you are flying, but whatever you are flying and wherever you trained, 50hrs total is too little to fly safely in and out of Lundy.

It's fairly short, fairly rough, has a hump in the middle and very challenging winds at times. Also, the perspective is confusing approaching to land on top of a high cliff.

Insert Lundy into your first summer of strip flying. Don't do it as your first or near first experience of strips.

QDM

[IO540]

I make that 200m grass.

How many normal GA planes would be within their takeoff performance, in zero wind, and carrying a pilot and fuel + legal reserve?

Does the place have a "runway extension" of some sort, so one could gather speed in ground effect?

[DaveW]

Not 200m - 400m according to the PFA's Devon Strut (http://www.devonstrut.co.uk/pages/airfields/lundyisland.htm). Who should know, having organised trips in for the last n years. Still sporty, I grant you - even without the approaches.

[IO540]

The usually very accurate Navbox Pro (current update) shows "200m grass", which is where my info came from, FWIW.

[MikeAlphaBravo]

Could also try Gigha Island. Went there recently and really enjoyed the experience . Some beautiful scenery en route and plenty of free landing vouchers in the magazines! Best long final I have ever flown, and the take off is quite exciting also! 700m strip, so not too intimidating. I am also a newly qualified PPL, but with good planning and a healthy respect for the weather, anywhere is within your reach. After all, who wanted a PPL to do local flights for the rest of their flying hours? Flying is all about the spirit of adventure!
MAB

[cubflyer]

MAB,
Gigha Island may be suitable, but I think the runway is a bit better maintained than Lundy.
Ginge, I wouldnt even think about going to Lundy until you have a lot more experience of flying into short rough unmarked strips. also you preferably want a taildragger with fairly large tyres as there are plenty of rocks on the field as well as ruts and holes.
Plenty of better places to try first, like most of the other destinations used for Devon Strut fly-ins, if that is the area you want to go to. If you do go to Lundy then a good time would be at the Devon Strut fly-in , as at least there are people there and someone might have inspected a bit of the runway.

[Gingerbread Man]

Have no fear, after seeing photos of the place I have already written it off for the time being. I'll stick to the slightly less challenging IoW for now, then think about some farm strips once i've got time on the Super Cub. Cheers for the replies though!

Ginge ;)

[QDMQDMQDM]

It's closer to 400m than 200m and I gather the strip is marked all the way along, as of this year, although I haven't been in myself this year.

I would echo the sentiment about taildraggers: it is really most suitable for them, rather than nosewheel aircraft.

A lot of fun, don't miss it.

QDM

[DubTrub]

Ah, Lundy. Memories of a mag failure, leaving aircraft for week sans magneto whilst we took it away for repair...return one week later found said aircraft salt-encrusted...installed repaired mag, flew out OK.

All in all a jolly couple of trips; what a lovely place to visit.

[drambuster]

I attended the fly-in last year which was an interesting experience - on the approach we could see a damaged aircraft lying to one side of the runway. It turned out that the pilot of this Vans RV7 had 'lost it' on the humps and then collided with the granite blocks which form a line down one side - gear collapsed resulting in heavy damage .

Then, towards the end of the event, a 172 attempted to depart on the wrong runway heading. Since the threshold is down a relatively steep incline he didn't realise his mistake until he came over the ridge .... finding himself pointing directly at the line of parked aircraft. He was too fast to stop but just had sufficient speed to clear everybody before stalling in behind the line. A very heavy inpact resulted in a trapped, concussed pilot and fuel leaking from the wing tanks. Fortunately for him there were two incredibly brave RAF crew who, despite the fuel everywhere, dragged him out and made a run for it ... just seconds before the whole lot blew up! He owes his life to them.

I would say you shouldn't go in with less than 200 hours and plenty of practice on rough strips with an emphasis on short field(carrier style) landings. Its not the place to be floating down the runway. Well placed confidence is the key. That said, it's a great place to visit and I only mention the above two incidents to give you a perspective on what lies in wait for those short on experience or confidence. The other eighty attendees were fine!

[drambuster]

WR

Exactly who the rescue team were is not particularly relevant to the general risks I was outlining.

However, I was advised by a pilot friend who had spoken that afternoon to the Search and Rescue helicopter crew from RAF Chivenor, who evacuated the injured pilot, that the two brave individuals were connected with the SARS base at Chivenor. It may be that they were recently retired (I think that might have been mentioned). Precisely who they were does not detract from their incredible bravery .... no-one else dared venture near the wreck with AvGas pouring all over the place!

It may be that you were the pilot of the 172 or even one of the brave individuals involved (in which case I seriously hope you're around if I end up in a prang like that, God forbid .... but it won't be due to the use of the wrong runway heading!). But, just for the record, please do feel free to advise exactly who they were since you were obviously close to the situation. They deserve to be acknowledged.

[QDMQDMQDM]

One of them was Jon Pote, retired GP and ex-RAF doctor. He got 2nd prize at the Royal Aeronautical Society (?) awards this year. I think he should have got first.

QDM

[QDMQDMQDM]

It was taking off the right way down the runway, but came over the hump orientated too far left and without enough speed to clear the aircraft arranged along the side of the runway. It then got yanked into the air without enough flying speed and the rest is history.

That is my understanding from a number of firsthand accounts.

QDM

[drambuster]

QDM is right - the Cessna lined up on the correct runway (27), but the threshold is down an incline so you cannot view the length of the strip. There are also, at this location, no markers to indicate the centre line or sides of the runway. Because it is a rough field you cannot even rely on an area of mowed grass.

The only way to take off down the centreline is to have studied the strip carefully and selected a tuft of grass (or whatever) as an aiming point on the ridge, or to aline the aircraft accurately on the DI/compass (which I wouldn't want to do as the only check ... best to have walked the strip beforehand!)

The Cessna pilot was probably only about 20 degrees off centreline but he wouldn't have been aware until he came over the top.

Incidentally, once you do get over the ridge you then have a row of granite blocks down the right hand side, but for some reason these don't extend down the slope to the threshold. Someone mentioned that Lundy have now installed some form of visual indicator right to the start of the threshold - but I don't know if that is correct.

My view, for what it is worth, is that on their fly-in days they should paint on a temporary white centre line below the ridge as it is all too easy to understand how this poor fellow got it wrong!

[QDMQDMQDM]

FWIW, I don't think the Devon Strut should hold a Lundy fly-in.

I didn't get there this year as I was away, but in other years you always see unsuitable pilots in unsuitable aircraft going in. It's a recipe for disaster and the worst thing would be if some idiot has a spectacular crash and kills himself and his (three) passengers in a large ball of flame with the result that Lundy gets shut to visiting pilots like us.

QDM

[helicopter-redeye]

Below is a picture of the runway on Lundy (July 05) as seen from the West End.

http://www.btinternet.com/~paul.evans28/Lundy.jpg


I usually use the H Pad but grass cutting was going on and Ben did'nt want the Tavern filling up with 6 tonnes of grass.

Given prevailing Westerlies in Devon, a fixed wing would usually be landing from the skyline (as seen) down the hill and into that large rock in the bracken. Also note the windsock and the crosswind component on this day.

If you have landed at Cromer then I would say this is 3X difficulty and 2X on Gigha and 7X on Glenforsa.

For anybody interested, this is a 'high quality, smooth, flat surface' when compared to Jura.

Also, watch out for the deer on the runway .....

h-r

:)

[skydriller]

Runway:confused: Where:suspect:

I thought I was looking at some sort of Celtic stone monument....

.....then panned the ENORMOUS photo and spotted the windsock:p

[helicopter-redeye]

Sorry, I have not been on the advanced photo posting course ...

My thanks to BRL for the sizemoderation

e

[skydriller]

:ouch:
Its just that I almost didnt spot the bright red helicopter :ok:

[QDMQDMQDM]

re h-r's picture:

If you are landing to the West and you aren't at or near taxying speed by the time you get to the windsock, i.e. on the far side of the hill, you may have an anxious time. It is quite a downslope towards the rock.

Watching people make three or four approaches to get in is a terrific spectator sport, especially when they are trying to land down wind, as I have seen once!

Great place to go for the right aircraft, loaded correctly, in the right conditions with the right pilot.

QDM

[DubTrub]

a simple tyre puncture..or simple impulse spring failure (see earlier post). We now regularly carry a simple tools/spare kit (including tube repair kit!) when going away.

[helicopter-redeye]

A clear day, with good equipment, I'll be tempted

But last time I had to 'force' the office to accept my payment so who needs a voucher ??

May be some interesting wildlife about in December

h-r:)

[Flyin'Dutch']

Looking at that slope I wonder if in the right conditions (i.e. no or very light winds) one would land uphill with a tailwind rather than go downhill.

What do those in the know think?

[QDMQDMQDM]

FD,

There's a big hump in the middle. You land uphill either way.

Have you found a Super Cub yet, btw? ;-)

QDM

[Flyin'Dutch']

Fraid not.

Have to make do with our Maule for now.

:}

Having said that I thoroughly enjoy that and the functionality is arguably even better than a Cub.

I know I should not talk about Cubs like that!

:)

[QDMQDMQDM]

Functionality, yes, but sheer joy of flying?
;-)

QDM