Duxford.

[Flash0710]

Have a pop.

I certainly am after shambolic treatment there.

Have a look at whats going on, on the Flyer Forum.

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=14507

I'm really fed up with attitudes like this killing GA

BTW i do have an axe to grind and am trying to resolve this with EGSU they are the ones acting in the unprofessional way i have tried to deal with this on a amicable level and the Director has delegated to incapable under managers.

Should anyone wish to know the exact details of my gripes i am not prepared to discuss them on the record here but will discuss with anyone who wants to know via e-mail or pm.


Behaviour like this is something i have never experienced anywhere.

Hope everyone else is having a good 2005 so far tho

Enjoy....
F.



:)

[BRL]

Remember how they treated the war vets :yuk:

[Flash0710]

BRL was not aware of that til Biggin lad wondered how to get to Duxford...:*

[Flyin'Dutch']

Flash,

I was one of the instigators of the action which led to Duxford to reconsider its charging policy of the vets.

Although initially hesitant the then director called me to get things sorted.

Have sent you a PM.

[BRL]

God it was a terrible time that. Frank done well sorting things out, i think we paid for them or something like that by sending a payment to the equally brilliant Mike Cross and things went from there. I will never forgive the management for their initial stance though.

[Flash0710]

As much as i would like to say my problem is for others it is for me

And the ignorance displayed is unbelievable....

F...

[Sink Rate]

Having heard the story from F. I'm simply disgusted by the way the whole thing has been handled. It's all rather reminissent of asking the Kindergarten class to run morning assembly.

I think Duxford is a great place with a fantastic collection, however from my on personnal experiences there I find it poorly run for visiting pilots (has anyone tried departing after an airshow? They have that long tourist train sitting idly by but use a fleet of minibusses speeding back and forth betwen the aircraft park and the crowd line).

I also resent having to pay for fuel (mine's a thirsty beast, an expensive landing fee and museum entry/airshow entry). I realise it's a business but why do I always leave there feeling like I've been had?

Best of luck Flash. I hope they wake up, but I won't hold my breath.

Still, at least ATC there is always courteous.

Oh sorry, my mistake...it isn't and they're not. :(

[strake]

ATC seem to have one jobsworth who should be removed immediately. He appears to delight in bo***cking people on the radio and giving vague or potentially conflicting information.

And, for God's sake, take the damn sign off the gate telling everyone to go up to the tower to report in. Oh, and put the "C" over the shop while you're at it.


Hummpfh!!

[A and C]

I was forced to GA by the Duxford ATC when someone was just exiting the far end of the runway- the ATC guy kept quoting some rule or other and in my opinion the risks involved in a low hours pilot doing a GA are far higher than him landing at the start of the runway when an aircraft is exiting the far end.

In short the Duxford ATC is a flight safety hazard in this respect.

[ozplane]

Because of the closeness of the hard and grass runways, Duxford is classified by the CAA as having a single runway and therefore "simultaneous" movements are not allowed. This is in the PPR brief and other documents. A visiting pilot should know this and act accordingly. Whether Duxford can "instruct" a go-around is another question as they are not full ATC. I believe the runways are in the course of being separated which might improve things.

[Flash0710]

Regarding FIS

I was to be validating here as a FISO ( NOT A CONTROLLER) and certain individuals love shouting at pilots. Particularly ones who called "vacated" prior to passing the holding points. ie not clear of the grass.

Pilots would normally have thought they have done the right thing.......(shouted)" Negative you are not runway vacated until you pass the xx hold........"

So you have just landed and already someone has put your back up. We all know what we say about people when we release the PTT!

I demonstrated to said FISO that a reasonable approach may work too.

Pilot called vacated identical situation "For your information you are not runway vacated until you pass the xx hold." pilot then reported after the hold and came up to tower to thank me.

Few words really easy non upset punter...........

Yep he does not help.......

F.

[DubTrub]

For the purposes of vacating a runway: when the runway(s) is vacated, it is vacated. There is no requirement to be over the (last) hold line, as long as the aircraft is pointed away from the active surface.

If the Authority required that an aircraft has "vacated the licensed strip", than that would be the call.

[Flash0710]

Dub,

The point i was making was not of a technical nature twas more along the lines of how not to upset people.

Rgds

F.

[Genghis the Engineer]

But Dub does give us some nice amunition there to throw at the next arsey controller to use that line on RT.

G

[Circuit Basher]

At the risk of a thread divergence, I have always been told not to call 'Runway Vacated' until across the hold line. I've checked CAP413 and the only reference to a specific point where runway vacated is to be called (other than giving examples of phraseology) is when referring to a vehicle towing an aircraft, where it says A runway vacated report should not be made until the vehicle (and tow) is clear of the designated runway area. The definition does not appear in CAP 393 (ANO), CAP493 Pt 1 (Manual of Air Traffic Services) or CAP410 (Manual of Flight Info Services), although all refer to the call 'Runway vacated'.

Should I just accept that this is not clearly defined??!! ;)

[tmmorris]

I must say, I won't be going to Duxford again for a bit. They no longer give free landings if you are visiting the museum, which I think is a bit stingy. And reading between the lines of a profile in a recent magazine I agree they do seem rather keen on emphasising how pilots can get things wrong, not how a FISO can help them...

Tim

[Flash0710]

From what i have seen the pilots do his job for him......


F.

[CVT Pilot]

Hi,

It seems I've had a totally different experience to most people when I flew into Duxford! FISO's were helpful and polite on the R/T and kindly offered me directions to the parking as I had not visited before. Went up to the tower after landing and had a really enjoyable chat with the two guys up there who offered me the TAF's for my return journey.

I agree, It's only a small walk to the main entrance from the tower and with all the aircraft there, including Concorde I can't see the problem - and there is of course the golf buggy style taxi!

Gave Duxford a call before I departed home airfield, think this was helpful as they had the opportunity to give me any necessary information before I left and ask if I was familiar with the procudures there. On arrival was given a left base join no problems.

Of course I'm not saying that what people experienced there hasn't happened; just not to me and I was more than impressed with the service and time I spent there relative to the money I paid.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Happy Flying!

CVT Pilot.

[Flash0710]

That may have been when i was training.......;)

There are a few decent part timers there others are questionable..

F.

[CVT Pilot]

Flash 0710,

When was that?

CVT Pilot.

[Flash0710]

Btwn Feb 05 To Apr 05 If not me it may be a fluke...

And the ATSU is not my main gripe but some areas of it worry me.....

Rgds

F.

[Zlin526]

Duxford FIS have always had a few bad apples, most ATSUs do (Redhill, Shoreham, Southend to name but a few in the locality!) But in general, i've had no problems with them and I fly from/to there a lot! (I'm not based there). And remember it's an Information service, so if you don't like what the chap is telling you, tell him!

Maybe somebody from DX would care to comment, as it seems a bit one-sided at the moment, what with Capt Flash loading the bullets.....:zzz:

[stiknruda]

Duxford - in my experience as a pilot of an inbound aircraft always pretty good.

Especially the day last year when I "advised" them that I was diverting into theirs with a rough running engine - even though it was their busiest display of the season. Tower folk could not have been more helpful!


Stik

[Flash0710]

Zlin like i said i DO have an axe to grind. Also I have nothing to hide....

F.

Stik.

Glad they sorted u out...

F.

[G-KEST]

I am utterly amazed at some of the posts on this thread.

We have in Duxford one of the worlds most exciting living aviation museums as opposed to the huge number of dead ones where mouldering airframes gather dust and only the ghosts of past times are often present.

There are few facilities like this elsewhere in the world who allow private or club aircraft to drop in for a visit that is invariably a magic experience for all on board. I have seen how busy the AFIS is at times and how awkward the presence of pilots waiting to pay their landing fees could be. As someone has remarked there is the noddy train available if one is challenged in the mobility area however it cannot take more that five minutes to stroll along to the entrance to pay the fees. Why on earth should there be a dedicated position for those pilots flying in, as opposed to those folk driving in, to pay. Snob's rule...not with me; all who visit Duxford, whether by air or by road, have made an effort to see one of the jewels in the UK's heritage aviation crown. Enjoy it for what it is.

For goodness sake stop knocking in a public area the best thing in UK heritage aviation; otherwise I fancy there just might be a backlash from the IWM management that would do no one any good.

If you do feel you have a justifiable complaint then privately contact the appropriate person whose email address has been posted on the thread. Richard Ashton has come from an organisation that has a huge membership and where he must have honed his customer relations skills so let him deal with your perceived problem in a civilised fashion on a person to person basis.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
:sad: :sad: :ouch: :ooh: :hmm:

[niknak]

I no longer work at Duxford but know a few people who do, and if there is a problem there, it eminates from the top.

Nuff said....:rolleyes:

[Flash0710]

Is it Finals or Final?

F.

[Flash0710]

G-KEST

Just to clarifly as per the thread on Flyer I love the place as far as the tin on display it is just a little spoilt....


Rgds

F

[G-KEST]

Well there may be light at the end of the tunnel as indicated on the rather more prolific Flyer thread.

The advice is there, do try it please.

I just cannot believe a national, state owned, facility such as IWM Duxford can take such a cavalier attitude, if indeed they have, towards the reconciliation of differences. Such an organisation is subject to checks and balances imposed from above, in this case the IWM Lambeth and beyond that the relevant government ministry or department. The latter particularly if an MP gets involved on behalf of a constituent. Hell hath no fury like an aggrieved MP; though it takes a lot to convince one, believe me.

Good luck,

Trapper 69

:( :( :( :( :( :D :D :ok:

[Flash0710]

Took the local tory for a spin whilst based there not name dropping and if i voted it would be the free and easy give you loads of money party.....!!!!


Cheers Kest.....

F.

[essouira]

Well unless things have seriously changed in the past year or so - I have to do a mega shout for the AT guys/girls at Duxford. We had a major problem with local weather - couldn't get back to base due CB TS etc. They let us in just before closing time and waited until it was safe for us to get home. Unpaid overtime for them and they did not hesitate to provide the service.
Brilliant .....
I hope that one day I can repay people like that !
x essouira

[Flash0710]

It still continues on the flyer forum

There was also a recent AIC which referred to them as Air Traffic........:rolleyes:

Fly High


F.....

[Zlin526]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
:yuk:

Ever thought of working for the tabloids?

[Flash0710]

Zlin,

No i have not.

Just a good old fashioned fan of fairness.

F.

[CaptainFillosan]

This is not about a fabulous museum. This is about attitudes from those who should know better. The afore aggrieved cannot all be wrong!


I just cannot believe a national, state owned, facility such as IWM Duxford can take such a cavalier attitude, if indeed they have, towards the reconciliation of differences. Such an organisation is subject to checks and balances imposed from above


What one has to remember was the disgraceful way the management behaved towards the veterans. It was an absolute disgrace. It was also probably conducted by jobsworth rather than sensitive people who, while looking after the exhibits beautifully, and trying to bring in funds, forgot to recognise the very people who flew their exhibits, or those like them, and those who took part. THAT was, and is, unforgivable. It was sorted eventually by the good guys on PPRuNe who took up the cudgel to beat some sense into the powers that failed the vets and raised money in double quick time to pay for them. It has to be said that the IWM were not as contrite as they should have been but I suppose they had to hide their embarrassment.

It is well to remember that state owned facilities are under extreme pressure to get funds in. To that end one has to think of the dictats from high to do just that. They should learn that they have to look after everyone and visiting pilots are no exception.