AEROplane???

[Pitts2112]

Having just been chastised by Stiknruda for my colonial spelling of the aeronautical sort, I have a couple of questions to pose to the group at large; to whit:

1. Why is it spelled (not "spelt"!) AEROPLANE?

2. Following whatever logic transpires from 1 above, why is it not spelled AEROCRAFT?

3. Why is it an AERODROME but also an AIRPORT?

4. Who invented the damn things in the first place (Sir Percy missed his chance, unfortunately)

5. Doesn't whoever invented a thing get to call it whatever the hell he wants and spell it that way, too?

I relinquish the floor and await the educated and lively debate to follow...

Pitts2112

[TheKentishFledgling]

Just so you know what to expect.....;)

I was also told (a few years ago..!) that it was not a plane, but an AEROplane. It now annoys me when people say plane, and I now say aeroplane all the time.

Will go for answer to number 2, and that's that it's aeorPLANE as the plane is the wing, which is the magic bit of it all.

tKF

[Pitts2112]

Sorry, tKF, but it's back to styduying for English A levels for you. Nice try but the argument doesn't hold water! And isn't nearly clever or humorous enough for this forum!

Pitts2112 :-)

[Genghis the Engineer]

1. Why is it spelled (not "spelt"!) AEROPLANE?
Because it uses an aerodynamic plane (as in mainplane, or wing) to generate lift.


2. Following whatever logic transpires from 1 above, why is it not spelled AEROCRAFT?
Because it is a craft which travels through the air air - craft!


3. Why is it an AERODROME but also an AIRPORT?
An aerodrome is a place where aeronautics takes place. An airport is a place where people arrive from the air - just like a seaport.

4. Who invented the damn things in the first place (Sir Percy missed his chance, unfortunately)
A moot point, personally I think that M. Bleriot deserves the most credit for coming up with the form of aeroplane that most of us now use.


5. Doesn't whoever invented a thing get to call it whatever the hell he wants and spell it that way, too?
Avion !



Incidentally, the word "airplane" is correct American english but is not equivalent to "aeroplane", it is equivalent to "aircraft". So, a helicopter is an airplane!

G

[TheKentishFledgling]

Sorry, tKF, but it's back to styduying for English A levels for you.

i dnt do english no more so dnt need to study4it do i? or even styduy?

tkf

[Pitts2112]

Now that's much better, tKF! :p

[DubTrub]

I'm with you, G, these darn Yanks want everything their way all the time!

[Sir George Cayley]

I think you'll find that the accepted father of modern aeronautics and someone who informed M Bleriot as to the shape and form of his aeroplane .............was...................is....................... .....
























Me!





Sir George Cayley

The air is a navigable ocean that laps at everyones door

[Colonial Aviator]

I believe that the correct term is aircraft, since I had it beaten into me by various QFI's that the term plane, or any derivation thereof was unacceptable since a plane was something that carpenters used

[DubTrub]

Well, Colonel, I remember the days when bastard referred to a carpenter's file ...
...now, it seems, it refers to a the offspring of an unmarried couple.

I think carpenter's terms ill-find their way in to all sorts of modern linguistics.:hmm:

[treadigraph]

Plane wrong... plain right, except in woodworking circles...

AEROPLANE please or aircraft... well, as you are a Yank, airplane aint quite so bad as plane...

Bastard - thought that was for metalwork, one lives and learns...

[Whirlybird]

And on a related topic, is the shortening of helicopter helo or heli, and why does no-one who actually flies one call it a chopper? :confused:

[Mike Cross]

I believe the difference is that an airplane is made of aluminum whereas an aeroplane is made of aluminium.

(unless they're made of anything else of course)

[Genghis the Engineer]

Ah, now there's a problem in itself. Sir Humphrey Davey, who discovered the process for extracting this wonderful lightweight metal named it ALUMINUM.

The Royal Society, deciding that new elements should end with "ium", renamed it ALUMINIUM.

Our American cousins however, had the courtesy to continue respecting the original British scientist's name for it.

Strange world we live in isn't it!

G


N.B. Whirly, I have a chopper, it is made of steel and hickory and it's used for truncating trees. It has flown on several occasions, but only when the handle gets wet - and once when it came off!

N.B.B. Sir George, would I be right in thinking that your illustrious ancestor used the term "aerial carriage"?

[High Wing Drifter]

Further to the point, why is it that Little Nellie is an "autogiro" and not "autogyro". Sounds to me more like a machine for making Post Office payments.

Have we Brits got all huffity puffity again?

[Sir George Cayley]

That would be "Gentlemans Aerial Carriage" I think you will find.

But then that would lead me on to talking about my footman and his pay claim, which would lead to blood pressure, which would lead to the Leech Doctor.

So I won't go there.

:\

Anyway what do you mean "ancestor?" I'm only just over 150

Sir George Cayley

[Whirlybird]

When it comes to them things that fly with a non-powered rotor, are they gyros, autogyros, autogiros, gyrocopters, gyroplanes, or what? :confused:

[Genghis the Engineer]

I stand to be corrected, but I believe that the accepted terminology is either gyroplane or gyroglider - the latter being towed rather than using an engine.

G

[WestWind1950]

why not rotorcraft?

I think the term "aircraft" is used for ANYTHING that flies around, including balloons, etc. Therefore airplane or aeroplane (either one?) can be used for fixed wing aircraft.

language is a strange thing :ugh:

Westy

P.S. in German:
aircraft = Luftfahrzeug
airplane = Flugzeug
helicopter = either Hubschrauber, Helikopter or "Drehflügler" :yuk:

[DubTrub]

The Royal Society, deciding that new elements should end with "ium", renamed it ALUMINIUM.
and right too. How would all the other (pre-USA) elements sound if they were spelled the "American" way...

Lithum
Sodum
Potassum
Magnesum
Titanum
Chromum
(at such a late hour, these are the only metals I can think of)
Oh, also
Berryllum
Tritum
Helum
Potassum
Calcum
Scandum
Vanadum
Gallum
etc
etc...

(OK, so some might be post-USA, but I am neither a chemist nor a historian)

[jabberwok]

Aerodrome, airport and airfield. Hmmm.

At one point an airport was considered an aerodrome with port facilities i.e. Customs suitable for international flight. Anything without these was called an airfield.

Aerodrome is a more ancient (and lovely) name - that Sir George would probably use exclusively over the more recent variants. ;)

[Mike Cross]

ICAO appears to favour Aerodrome, as does the AIP.

Our cousins do seem to have cornered some aspects for themselves, viz:-
Left hand drive
Yellow centreline taxiway markings and blue edge markings (as on their roads)
Switches that are up for "on"
The date format used in Flight Plans

still, as they fathered the bicycle makers from Ohio I suppose it's fair enough.

Sir George - had the pleasure of seeing your aerial carriage in flight some years ago.
http://www.ctie.monash.edu.au/hargrave/images/cayley_mancarrier-mono_350.jpg

The strange object in the background appears to have slipped through a loophole in the space-time continuum.

Mike

[Rattus]

I was taught many years ago that an AIRFIELD is that part of an AERODROME on which aircraft manoeuvre. An AERODROME comprises the AIRFIELD, plus hangars, technical and administrative buildings, and an AIRPORT is an AERODROME which is open to public air traffic.

In Service parlance, a STATION includes an AIRFIELD, a TECHNICAL SITE and a DOMESTIC SITE.

All aeroplanes are aircraft, but not all aircraft are aeroplanes. It amuses me to hear glider pilots occasionally refer to visiting aeroplanes as "fixed wing aircraft". Would you like to fly a glider without....?

And it's AUTOGIRO if your name's Cierva, AUTOGYRO if you're a Wallis, GYROPLANE if you are of the Bensen persuasion. You pays your money and you takes your choice!

Rattus.

[UV]

And why do you need an ADF (Automatic Direction Finder) to find your way to a NDB (a Non Directional Beacon)??.. Sorry!

UV

[Windy Militant]

I thought that the reason Aerodromes were so named was because the aircraft flown at the time were not able to deal very well with cross winds so a large circular area was used so they could take off and land into wind. These were similar in shape to the venues used for the other popular sport of the day, the Velodrome used for bicycle racing .
From the Latin Dromus - meaning racecourse.
The cousins not being so well up on the classics simply called them Airfields.

[Droopystop]

Further to the helo/chopper etc:

I believe our military cousins refer to helicopters as either aeroplane or cab. The later seems appropriate to what I fly at least - it really is the London cab of the skies.

[david viewing]

This struck a chord with me ...

I've noticed that when I'm in America, a hear myself talking rather deliberately about an Aeroplane. Back here, it's just a plane.

Airs and graces?

[DRJAD]

However, Dubtrub, we do have the metal Plumbum, to make a somewhat leaden reply.

[BossEyed]

Fascinating stuff. := You're all wrong about what an "Aerodrome" (http://www.nasm.si.edu/research/aero/aircraft/langleyA.htm) was, though... :cool:

[waldopepper42]

This doesn't work when written rather than spoken. I was admonished by our CFI thus:

PLANE..?! It's an AEROplane!! A plain is that upon which the Wildebeast roam!!

[foxmoth]

DubTrub
It is not that the Americans did not spell things with the "ium" ending rather that as Mike Cross says, this is how Davies ended up spelling it and us British users changed it to fit in with the endings that were already there that the US used as well for all the other elements at that time.
We could of course totaly confuse this by using Davies first term of alumium :confused:

[Penguina]

Learned ladies & gents, how do a bunch of old sticklers react to 'plane? Is the apostrophe seen to be hedging your bets and therefore bad form or does it atone for the sin of abbreviation?

And, if so, how can I imply it's presence in verbal communication?

:confused:

[ThePirateKing]

Penguina,

I think you know the answer to that question!:hmm:

TPK:ok:

[ChampChump]

those darn Yanks

I feel the spirit of applied pedantry displayed above warrants mention of the use of 'Yanks' in connection (or connexion) with our friends over the pond.

As some of the more colourful (colorful) characters I have met there live well south of the Mason-Dixon Line, I learned long ago not to apply the term to any but them fancy folks up north.

To return to the topic, my aeroplane flies me at genteel speeds befitting our combined age. This thread reminds me of another defining aviator/ pilot. Excellent stuff.

A glorious excuse for aering our opinions.....

CC
(probably not 'Aviatrix')
:ok:

[southender]

Whilst on the subject why are seaplanes called flyingboats.

In navy terms a boat is a submarine, designed to travel underwater, whereas I know of no aircraft with the same capabilities.

Should not seaplanes be called flyingships, or is even seaplane the correct name?

Southender

[Mike Cross]

While it is true that the RN refer to submarines as boats it does not mean that all boats are submarines, viz ship's boat, e.g. pinnace, tender, cutter gig.

I wouldn't get too hung up on RN customs, they have some that are passing strange.

My understanding is:-

Seaplane - can land on water
Flying boat - derives the bulk of its flotation from the hull
Floatplane - derives its flotation from floats


Incidentally, anyone know the meaning of the expression "Getting out at Fratton"? A virtual pint for the first correct answer.

[Cusco]

MC

'Getting out at Fratton'


Same as 'Getting off at Cottingham'

Can I have my pint now please : we shouldn't let c***** interrupt us.

Safe (very safe) flying.

Cusco

The Americans spell aluminium \'aluminium\', just like we do.

It\'s just that they don\'t know how to pronounce it.

In the same way that J Dubya talks about \'nookyular\' weapons.


Ducks and awaits visit from CIA

Cusco

apols. for all the backward slashes: can't get rid of 'em

[DubTrub]

"Getting on at Marylebone" in my day

[Mike Cross]

Cusco

Enjoy your pint!
http://mrc0001.users.btopenworld.com/webimages/sliding_glass.gif

Getting ON at Marylebone?? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

I understand that at Bristol they get off at Parkway.

Mike

[foxmoth]

Enjoy your pint!

Don't know he really deserves it - he told us what it is the same as, but this still does not tell us (or at least me) what it means:confused:

[Mike Cross]

True, but he demonstrated that he understands what it means.

GP to Jack's wife
"What form of contraception do you and your husband use?"
"Well he gets out at Fratton"

As opposed to going all the way to Portsmouth Harbour. Your good lady wife, being of a medical persuasion will no doubt supply any additional explanation that you may require.

Mike;)

[Cusco]

You figure out what C***** stands for and you'll see i did tell you.

BTW the pint was just the job.

Cusco (with a definite trade advantage) but the pint's already gone) :}

[foxmoth]

OK, worked it out now!:O