atc slot abuse

[nginear]

Recently, whilst boarding a colleague of mine heard a knocking at the cockpit window.The man announced himself as the "Air Traffic Manager" for the airport and that if the flight had any slot then not to worry because he would sort it out.
What does this mean?
Does this person have the power to change slot times?
Is he trying to be clever by suggesting that he can?
Would he tell his ATC staff to ignore the slot time and let the a/c depart on time regardless.

[rej]

Sound like a wind-up. He was probably a frequent flyer who had got so pi$$ed off at the front end crew constantly blaming ATC for departure delays that he thought he would pre-empt them trying it again!

[ILS 119.5]

Have heard the same story from a friend and it seems that that the manager concerned is trying to show off. Whether or not he is abusing his power I do not know, but from a flight deck perceptipn he looks like an idiot.

[Jerricho]

Sounds like bullsh*t to me.

[nginear]

It is not bullsh*t. The ATM did do this. My question is about his power to do this and his authority over eurocontrol.

[RAC/OPS]

We've got an assistant like that. Can't be bothered requesting a new slot/sending a delay, so just says 'he can go'. He has set a few people up. He is a complete person whose parents weren't married

[jangler909]

Perhaps he had a friend working at CFMU and on duty at that moment...

[Jerricho]

Sorry nginear.

I was actually commenting on the individual you were describing mate. Not you :ok:

[flowman]

nginear
Which aerodrome was this?

[SilentHandover]

Why was the ATC manager knocking on the window, was he cleaning the windows as a sideline????

I can see it now standing there atop a cherry picker offering a whole host of services, windows buffed, slots cancelled, direct routings offered!!!!:D :D :p :D :D

[nginear]

It happened at LBA about 2/3 months ago.

[Spitoon]

Slots get re-negotiated every day. It's no big deal.

Many controllers will help out an aircraft or pilot in many ways if no one is inconvenienced and no rules are broken - using a non-duty runway, sorting out a higher initial level for a positioning flight so that the aircraft can go up like a rocket, flying over a kid's party, taking a look at a house a pilot is thinking of buying, checking out how busy the golf course is on the way in. Done them all - without any problems.

But to knock on anything but the flightdeck door for anything but a professional hello is something that only a @rse would do.

But unfortunately, just as in any other walk of life, there are a few @rses in ATC.

[EmergingCyclogenesis]

the "Air Traffic Manager" for the airport

and

It happened at LBA about 2/3 months ago

well we all know who that is now!!!!!!!!!!


I think

is something that only a @rse would do.

is a bit harsh.

Did he get a result? If so, then good on him. Maybe he had a meeting to get to. Probably saved the airline a bit of money.

[eastern wiseguy]

Might it have been said in a tongue in cheek fashion?...Might the person have known the flight deck crew?...and is it abuse to try to assist?.....dear god what a load of cobblers!!

[nginear]

He did not know the flight deck otherwise he wouldn't have introduced himself. How would he change the slot once onboard? He wasn't on the jumpseat therefore could not do so by the r/t, therefore he would have to use his mobile which is against the law. Alternatively a quick sprint to the tower may have sufficed. Still I think he made himself and the rest of the ATC ers look like idiots.

[Barnaby the Bear]

I know of a couple of people in our profession, that boast about demanding special treatment from certain airlines, because they are an ATCO.
I try to explain to them they just make us look like like T*&T$. And its people like that who encourage a them and us attitude. Plus threatens the concessions we are kindly offered.
Can't quite see how he could get the slot cancelled when on board. But maybe there is more to it.

:}

[LXGB]

The whole thing sounds like a parcel of Sh1te to me.

LXGB

[nginear]

No I don't work at LBA but elsewhere. I was only interested to see what, if any, influence people had on slot times or if the system could be fiddled or if people were so blase regarding slot times that they were ignored.

[I'm not joking sir]

if the system could be fiddled or if people were so blase regarding slot times that they were ignored.

Slots are taken very seriously by all though you'll always get the odd :mad: who ignores them because it suits them and sod the poor guy who'll be overloaded.

The system used to be open to abuse but by stopping the use of retrospective DLA msgs (eg delaying flight to 1020 at 1030) and making all AOs delay flights if they had gone past EOBT +15, the playing field got levelled for all. Therefore it's not fiddleable in that way anymore.

[This is a crisis]

I would say that 99.9% of ATCOs take slot times very seriously especially as MATS 1 now states that the slot time is an integral part of the clearance and should in thoery be passed with the clearance.

All it takes is for a sector overload to trigger an investigation and with the airfiled movement log any transgressions will soon come to light.

A Manager ATS certainly has no authority to break slots and if tried on me would be politely told to sign the watch log and take over the watch - swiftly followed by submission of a 1261!!

:ok:

[Bern Oulli]

.......and should in thoery be passed with the clearance.

Delete "should in theory". It will.

[flowman]

It's good to read on here how the posters who have submitted responses so far seem to stick rigidly to slot times.
Unfortunately the statistics indicate that "slot busting" is still a problem with between 10% and 30% of slots not being adhered to. This problem is not geographic or limited to busy aerodromes but is widespread.
There was up to 50% non adherence at LHBP (Budapest) who would appear to be the worst. More than 30% non adherence is not unusual though.
You are all aware of the effects for other controllers. The longer term effect of repeated overloads will be a general reduction in capacity.
Back to the thread though, there is no special treatment, no deals, no favours. This is looked upon very seriously here and is a disciplinary matter. Slots can normally be renegotiated or extended. There are a number of ways of accomodating missed slots and we will always try to help. The only time we will say no is if it is going to cause a problem for another controller further down the line.

[Widger]

I'll start by saying that I am not the person involved and I do not work at the airfield concerned, but I can categorically state that this is all a Load of B******. There are obviously some unhappy people about (for whatever reason) who are throwing sh!te to see if it sticks.

[ILS 119.5]

Oooh Widger
Bit touchy, it looks like you do work there, and working in the management with a reply like that. I have heard this story from a few colleagues within the company and it is true.

Perhaps you are the boss of the ATM

[Widger]

I can confirm that I am NOT the ATM, nor do I work at said airport and neither am I a Northern Monkey!

:ok:

[Jerricho]

I can confirm

Sounds like a journalist :E

[Widger]

I can confirm that I am not a hack. I cannot confirm that I am equally detestable!

[norvenmunky]

I can confirm that I am NOT the ATM, nor do I work at said airport and neither am I a Northern Monkey!

I am:ok:

[nginear]

Hey todger sorry widger,
I am not in the habit of lying. Apparently the guy does it all the time (knocking on the window). Whether or not the ATC slot comment was a one off I do not know.

[Widger]

nginear,

If you have a problem with this guy and you see him regularly, why don't you approach him directly and settle your differences.
YOU took the decision to "out" him on this forum, by leaving no doubt as to who it was. You have therefore publicly humiliated him and casted doubts on his professionalism. Those of us who know the individual, have a right to defend his good name and the many years of excellent service he has provided to his customers.

This whole thread stinks of someone having a public vendetta against someone who does not deserve the abuse!

Go and find another pond to throw your stones in!