IMC Study Material

[ThePirateKing]

Hi all,

Can anybody recommend study material for the IMC rating? I have the IMC confuser, and I understand Thom #5 will be helpful? I was weened on Pratt, so how different will the Thom material be?

Also, if Thom #5 is suitable, does anybody have a cheap, fairly recent one going unwanted/unused? :)

Thanks,

TPK:ok:

[FlyingForFun]

Trevor Thom book 5 is well worth the investment, and should cover everything you need to know. Good luck!

FFF
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[oscarmike]

Agreed - I just bought a copy (starting an IMC course in December) and it is bang up to date and seems to cover the full course.

I got mine off Amazon Market Place www.amazon.co.uk (http://www.amazon.co.uk) and saved myself a couple of quid.

I think you will need to keep refering back to it anyway, so it's well worth the investment IMHO.

[ThePirateKing]

£150/hr for training, and I'm trying to scrimp on the £20 or whatever for the book. :rolleyes:

I get the message!

Thanks guys,

TPK:ok:

[c-bert]

Well you know what they say, look after the pennies and the pounds will disappear into the bottomless void that is private flying....

[IO540]

The most important thing for IMC training is an instructor who actually flies (IFR) to some places for real :O

[ThePirateKing]

Well, I've bid for a copy on ebay. Currently mine for £2.21! :D

IO540, will this not occur naturally during the navigation/approach parts of the course? I'm flying a plane with IFR screens, so I guess this makes things a little more realistic that a hood/foggles?

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

[Obs cop]

TPK,

Trevor Thom #5 was my study material and got me over 90% in the exam. However, putting the exam to one side, I feel that it gave me an excellent knowledge base for my IMC training.

A couple of other resources to consider,

www.Airquiz.com offers online practice IMC papers for the paltry yearly subscription of £3. Your attempts are automatically marked and you get emailed the answers for the ones you get wrong within about a minute.

The magazine "Flyer" has a monthly instrument teaser.

FS2002/2004 can help for practicing the actual flying, particularly NDB tracking and approaches.

IO540's advice is good, because one of the main reasons for having the IMCR is to get somewhere when it's grotty. Hence, me and my instructor have been doing just that, going places during the course (namely East Mids, Leicester and Cranfield), practicing diversions, using class D airspace and major airports. The flying syllabus is not as closely monitored or directed as the PPL, not having a list of exercises for the student and instructor to stick rigidly to and allowing quite a bit of flexibility and interpretation. Mind you, I wouldn't have thought that many instrument flying instructors exist who don't use their privelidges in anger.:\

Regards

Obs cop

Ps. I have a copy of #5 but it's mine, all mine I tell ya.

[IO540]

There are very few instructors of any kind that fly beyond their immediate area or fly for a purpose other than training - they tell me this is because they don't earn enough to fly themselves.

Equally however I suspect most students don't want to pay for extended trips.

But as has been said the IMCR is 100% about doing a previously planned flight from A to B, not about doing a load of NDB holds at one's local beacon.

Perhaps the best instructors for IFR are (ex) airline pilots.

Also make sure you get each individual lesson signed by the instructor, in case you want to progress to an FAA PPL/IR for example. It isn't a legal requirement but (given the FAA PPL/IR requires some 40 hours of experience including 15hrs of training from any ICAO instructor, plus other stuff) it will avoid any questions re fake IMC time. The IMC Rating is wonderful but the first time you get stuck at some foreign airport under a 900ft cloudbase, with them not allowing VFR departures below 1200ft, you will want to get an IR :O

[ThePirateKing]

IO540,

I'd love to get an IR (FAA, not JAA) but I'm slightly colour blind. :mad:

TPK:ok:

[IO540]

It is very possible to fail the Isihara plate test, and then pass the Lantern Test at CAA Gatwick. Have you exhausted this route?

If you pass the LT then show the letter from the CAA AME to the FAA AME and he will give you a Class 1, 2 or 3 medical. PM me if you want any FAA AME contacts.

I wouldn't bother with FAA Class 3; the Class 2 has the ECG and costs an extra 20 quid and avoids the mounting controversy over the Class 3.

The LT is pretty unrealistic for real flying needs but you can practice for it, with coloured lights about 5mm dia about 5m away. Also avoid doing any close viewing of things immediately before e.g. reading.

[ThePirateKing]

The AME at Heathrow did a Lantern Test when I failed the plates. I screwed up all the greens. :(

If I screw up the Lantern Test at Gatwick, is that not the end of the line? My next course of action might be to go an practice a few SODAs in the US and get an FAA medical.

TPK:ok:

[DRJAD]

Back to books for the IMC course, I used

Thom book V,

Instrument Flying (I think it's called) by Monique Agazarian

both very useful.

Did not use any confusers, etc., it seemed an unnecessary extra load on the time available.

[IO540]

If I screw up the Lantern Test at Gatwick, is that not the end of the line

It is the end of line for a JAA IR, I believe. As is having out of spec hearing in one ear. I do know of somebody who got a CAA IMC Rating despite failing the colour vis tests, with a daylight only restriction. This is apparently very rare but is within the authority of the CAA as the IFR privileges are limited to the UK anyway.

But if you can get an FAA medical then you have an FAA medical! An FAA medical (1,2, or 3) meets ICAO and if you fly an N-reg plane you are done.

The Irish have reportedly decided that the FAA C3 med doesn't meet ICAO. They are almost certainly wrong but in Ireland anything goes and it's not worth your hassle; just go for the Class 2.

I have both JAA and FAA medicals and the FAA C2 is actually slightly more strict on things that matter than the JAA C2, but one's eyesight is never the same on any two occassions anyway. No good going for an eye test if you are very tired and have been doing a lot of reading, for example.

Go for it. Your colour vision is tested only once in your life, I was told.

DRJAD - the IMC Confuser is a great book. If one can work through all the examples in that, one must have a good understanding of the subject. The CAA multiple choice questions are full of tricks, with some of the computed headings differing by just 1 degree - to check you are using the slide rule correctly.

[DRJAD]

IO540, I've never seen one of the confuser books, so run the risk of opining out of ignorance!

I worry that working at examples might teach examination passing, rather than understanding. However, that's a generalised fear, rather than specific, obviously. You evidently feel that it is not a reasonable position to take, and I bow to that.

Interesting comments about the FAA/JAA eyesight requirements, I must study this in more depth - thanks, TPK, for the thread, and IO540 for the info..

[IO540]

The Confuser books contain about 4 times more questions than the actual exam paper (100 v. 25, IIRC). If you work through the whole book (which will take you a good few days) and get say 90% of them right, there is just no way you can fail to understand the subject. Especially the incredibly tedious illustrations of the stupid circular slide rule that go on for page after page.

It is somewhat easier to cheat on the FAA exams because the entire question bank is in the public domain (legitimately) but the same principle applies - you never know which subset (of a pretty big set) you will get. But then the examiner will grind you into the ground on the oral anyway.....

Getting airborne via the FAA route may be controversial but then we are talking technicalities here anyway, which bear little or no relation to any actual in-flight requirements. The CAA may as well insist that your ba11s hang within 0.25" of each other :O

[ThePirateKing]

IO540,

I can get a CAA IMC rating. In fact, somebody with a CAA PPL can used to be able to get a CAA IR with colour blindness. It's the JAA that's :mad: everything up!

Specifically, my JAA medical is stamped VDL (Vision Distance Limitation - must wear corrective lenses, etc.) and VCL (Vision Colour Limition) which reads "VFR flights by daytime only". Hence no IFR flights. However, the VFR restriction has now been lifted and I can get an IMC - hence the original question! :D

Daytime only I can understand, but one has to wonder why, if I am boggling around inside a cloud with zero vis, I need to be able to identify aircraft nav lights. After all, I'm not going to see the damned thing until I bump into it! :uhoh:

TPK:ok:

[FlyingForFun]

one has to wonder why, if I am boggling around inside a cloud with zero vis, I need to be able to identify aircraft nav lightsTPK, my knowledge of your medical condition is pretty much zero, aside from what you've just posted here.

But one thing springs to mind with regards to why it might (and I stress the word "might" - someone with a medical background could probably confirm or deny this) restrict you to VFR-only. I'm thinking about flying an instrument approach down to minima. You will pop out of the cloud, possibly with very poor visibility in haze or precipitation, and only an extremely short amount of time in which to orientate yourself visually in order to carry out a safe landing. Typically the runway lighting will be turned on in these conditions, and will be a vital part of your visual orientation. Might your condition make this more difficult, I wonder? Clearly the AME who removed your VFR-only restriction didn't think it would be a major problem...

FFF
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[ThePirateKing]

Hi FFF,

The VFR limitation was lifted by the CAA persuading the JAA to reword their VCL stamp on all medicals (not that they've re-issued them, mind!) So it seems the CAA can fight for the little man sometimes!

WRT runway lights, I've never experienced them first hand, but it is a known fact that people with colour blindness have better vision in dark/poor vis situations. I doubt I could confuse which end of the runway I was landing on because I can correctly identify the red lights every time, so the only confusion would be between the green threshold lights and the white edge lights. I suspect the aspect ratio would give it away if I was trying to land sideways across the runway! :hmm:

So I'm now in the slightly paradoxical situation that I can get an IMC rating and fly IFR (thank you CAA), but I can't get a Class 1 medical, and hence an IR. Apart from the ability to fly in Class A airspace and the additional learning/performance requirements, I can't really see what difference there is between operation on an IMC rating and an IR rating!

TPK:ok:

[IO540]

You don't need a Class 1 medical for an IR. You can do a JAA PPL/IR on a CAA Class 2 medical, with the CAA Class 1 audiogram requirements added into it.

For a JAA CPL or ATPL you need a Class 1 medical.

FAA PPL/IR can be done on a FAA Class 3 medical.

I don't get the colour vis requirement with IMC either - one cannot possibly not see the lit-up runway. Also the vast majority of people that fail both Isihara and the Lantern test can see the normal colours they are subjected to in life, and can distinguish the aviation-relevant colours in any practical circumstances.

[ThePirateKing]

IO540,

That's very interesting.

Time to do more investigating, I think.

Thanks!

TPK:ok:

WOW!

IO540, I owe you, big time! :D

JAR-FCL 3.345 [Colour perception for issue of a Class 2 medical] says...
..blah, blah, Ishihara, blah, Lantern Test... (c) An applicant who fails the acceptable colour perception tests is to be considered colour unsafe and shall be assessed as unfit. (d) A colour unsafe applicant may be assessed by the AMS as fit to fly by day only.
My interpretation of this is (c) you will be assessed unfit, (d) unless your AME says you are safe really, but shouldn\'t fly at night. Is this correct? I assume it must be, since I have a Class 2 medical which I wouldn\'t otherwise have.

Note paragraph (d) is missing from the Class 1 section.

The only reference I can find regarding what medical requirements there are for which ratings is at http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/srg_fcl_01.pdf, section 2.1.8 which states:
Applicants must be in possession of a JAA Class 1 medical certificate at the time of the test. PPL (IR) applicants require JAA Class 2. [...]
Now, I don\'t know what a PPL(IR) is, unless it is a reference to somebody trying to add an IR to their PPL, as opposed to somebody trying to add an IR to their CPL.

Is that all correct? :confused: I can\'t find any reference to the additional ECG requirement you mentioned.

Now, to the fly in the ointment. Section 2.1.5 of the aforementioned document states that an applicant must hold a PPL with Night Rating or a CPL. Of course, I can\'t get a Night Rating! Is it possible that this will be waived provided I stick to my \'by day only\' restriction? :{

Rgds,

TPK:ok:

[IO540]

TPK

A PPL(IR) is just a PPL with an IR. You need a Class 2 medical only. You need a Class 1 for a CPL or an ATPL.

Very few people are now doing a PPL/IR; most go the FAA PPL/IR route. There are a number of reasons for this but basically JAA have all but killed the IR for noncommercial pilots.

However, I cannot find in the PDF you gave the requirement for the extra audiogram (which is taken from the Class 1 medical) required for anyone doing a JAA IR. THIS IS VERY INTERESTING and unless this document is incomplete and there is another one, this is clearly a change that's happened in the last year or two.

I have it in writing from the CAA that I can never do an IR, because of having one out of spec ear. I raised this with a CAA official a couple of years ago and the reason he gave me was to make sure people can communicate on the radio - which given a mono headset is demonstrably nonsense.

Your PDF just says

"Applicants must be in possession of a JAA Class 1 medical certificate at the time of the test. PPL (IR) applicants require JAA Class 2. "

Can anyone familiar with this regulation comment?

[ThePirateKing]

IO540,

Sorry, you said audiogram, not ECG. There is something about needing a class 2 medical AND compliance with JAR-FCL3.355(b). LASORS Section E1.1, Medical Fitness refers.

TPK:ok:

[Blinkz]

Thepirateking,
come into the medical forums, there is a big section on CVD pilots, myself knowing an awful lot about it as I am CVD too, but am lucky enough to hold a class 1, altho with alot of effort. PM if u want.