IMC Study Material
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From: 2nm due S EGLK
IMC Study Material
Hi all,
Can anybody recommend study material for the IMC rating? I have the IMC confuser, and I understand Thom #5 will be helpful? I was weened on Pratt, so how different will the Thom material be?
Also, if Thom #5 is suitable, does anybody have a cheap, fairly recent one going unwanted/unused?
Thanks,
TPK
Can anybody recommend study material for the IMC rating? I have the IMC confuser, and I understand Thom #5 will be helpful? I was weened on Pratt, so how different will the Thom material be?
Also, if Thom #5 is suitable, does anybody have a cheap, fairly recent one going unwanted/unused?
Thanks,
TPK
Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Worcestershire UK
Agreed - I just bought a copy (starting an IMC course in December) and it is bang up to date and seems to cover the full course.
I got mine off Amazon Market Place www.amazon.co.uk and saved myself a couple of quid.
I think you will need to keep refering back to it anyway, so it's well worth the investment IMHO.
I got mine off Amazon Market Place www.amazon.co.uk and saved myself a couple of quid.
I think you will need to keep refering back to it anyway, so it's well worth the investment IMHO.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: 2nm due S EGLK
Well, I've bid for a copy on ebay. Currently mine for £2.21! 
IO540, will this not occur naturally during the navigation/approach parts of the course? I'm flying a plane with IFR screens, so I guess this makes things a little more realistic that a hood/foggles?
Rgds,
TPK
IO540, will this not occur naturally during the navigation/approach parts of the course? I'm flying a plane with IFR screens, so I guess this makes things a little more realistic that a hood/foggles?
Rgds,
TPK
Joined: May 2003
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From: Midlands
TPK,
Trevor Thom #5 was my study material and got me over 90% in the exam. However, putting the exam to one side, I feel that it gave me an excellent knowledge base for my IMC training.
A couple of other resources to consider,
www.Airquiz.com offers online practice IMC papers for the paltry yearly subscription of £3. Your attempts are automatically marked and you get emailed the answers for the ones you get wrong within about a minute.
The magazine "Flyer" has a monthly instrument teaser.
FS2002/2004 can help for practicing the actual flying, particularly NDB tracking and approaches.
IO540's advice is good, because one of the main reasons for having the IMCR is to get somewhere when it's grotty. Hence, me and my instructor have been doing just that, going places during the course (namely East Mids, Leicester and Cranfield), practicing diversions, using class D airspace and major airports. The flying syllabus is not as closely monitored or directed as the PPL, not having a list of exercises for the student and instructor to stick rigidly to and allowing quite a bit of flexibility and interpretation. Mind you, I wouldn't have thought that many instrument flying instructors exist who don't use their privelidges in anger.
Regards
Obs cop
Ps. I have a copy of #5 but it's mine, all mine I tell ya.
Trevor Thom #5 was my study material and got me over 90% in the exam. However, putting the exam to one side, I feel that it gave me an excellent knowledge base for my IMC training.
A couple of other resources to consider,
www.Airquiz.com offers online practice IMC papers for the paltry yearly subscription of £3. Your attempts are automatically marked and you get emailed the answers for the ones you get wrong within about a minute.
The magazine "Flyer" has a monthly instrument teaser.
FS2002/2004 can help for practicing the actual flying, particularly NDB tracking and approaches.
IO540's advice is good, because one of the main reasons for having the IMCR is to get somewhere when it's grotty. Hence, me and my instructor have been doing just that, going places during the course (namely East Mids, Leicester and Cranfield), practicing diversions, using class D airspace and major airports. The flying syllabus is not as closely monitored or directed as the PPL, not having a list of exercises for the student and instructor to stick rigidly to and allowing quite a bit of flexibility and interpretation. Mind you, I wouldn't have thought that many instrument flying instructors exist who don't use their privelidges in anger.
Regards
Obs cop
Ps. I have a copy of #5 but it's mine, all mine I tell ya.
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From: EuroGA.org
There are very few instructors of any kind that fly beyond their immediate area or fly for a purpose other than training - they tell me this is because they don't earn enough to fly themselves.
Equally however I suspect most students don't want to pay for extended trips.
But as has been said the IMCR is 100% about doing a previously planned flight from A to B, not about doing a load of NDB holds at one's local beacon.
Perhaps the best instructors for IFR are (ex) airline pilots.
Also make sure you get each individual lesson signed by the instructor, in case you want to progress to an FAA PPL/IR for example. It isn't a legal requirement but (given the FAA PPL/IR requires some 40 hours of experience including 15hrs of training from any ICAO instructor, plus other stuff) it will avoid any questions re fake IMC time. The IMC Rating is wonderful but the first time you get stuck at some foreign airport under a 900ft cloudbase, with them not allowing VFR departures below 1200ft, you will want to get an IR
Equally however I suspect most students don't want to pay for extended trips.
But as has been said the IMCR is 100% about doing a previously planned flight from A to B, not about doing a load of NDB holds at one's local beacon.
Perhaps the best instructors for IFR are (ex) airline pilots.
Also make sure you get each individual lesson signed by the instructor, in case you want to progress to an FAA PPL/IR for example. It isn't a legal requirement but (given the FAA PPL/IR requires some 40 hours of experience including 15hrs of training from any ICAO instructor, plus other stuff) it will avoid any questions re fake IMC time. The IMC Rating is wonderful but the first time you get stuck at some foreign airport under a 900ft cloudbase, with them not allowing VFR departures below 1200ft, you will want to get an IR
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From: EuroGA.org
It is very possible to fail the Isihara plate test, and then pass the Lantern Test at CAA Gatwick. Have you exhausted this route?
If you pass the LT then show the letter from the CAA AME to the FAA AME and he will give you a Class 1, 2 or 3 medical. PM me if you want any FAA AME contacts.
I wouldn't bother with FAA Class 3; the Class 2 has the ECG and costs an extra 20 quid and avoids the mounting controversy over the Class 3.
The LT is pretty unrealistic for real flying needs but you can practice for it, with coloured lights about 5mm dia about 5m away. Also avoid doing any close viewing of things immediately before e.g. reading.
If you pass the LT then show the letter from the CAA AME to the FAA AME and he will give you a Class 1, 2 or 3 medical. PM me if you want any FAA AME contacts.
I wouldn't bother with FAA Class 3; the Class 2 has the ECG and costs an extra 20 quid and avoids the mounting controversy over the Class 3.
The LT is pretty unrealistic for real flying needs but you can practice for it, with coloured lights about 5mm dia about 5m away. Also avoid doing any close viewing of things immediately before e.g. reading.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: 2nm due S EGLK
The AME at Heathrow did a Lantern Test when I failed the plates. I screwed up all the greens. 
If I screw up the Lantern Test at Gatwick, is that not the end of the line? My next course of action might be to go an practice a few SODAs in the US and get an FAA medical.
TPK
If I screw up the Lantern Test at Gatwick, is that not the end of the line? My next course of action might be to go an practice a few SODAs in the US and get an FAA medical.
TPK
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Almost Scotland
Back to books for the IMC course, I used
Thom book V,
Instrument Flying (I think it's called) by Monique Agazarian
both very useful.
Did not use any confusers, etc., it seemed an unnecessary extra load on the time available.
Thom book V,
Instrument Flying (I think it's called) by Monique Agazarian
both very useful.
Did not use any confusers, etc., it seemed an unnecessary extra load on the time available.
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From: EuroGA.org
If I screw up the Lantern Test at Gatwick, is that not the end of the line
But if you can get an FAA medical then you have an FAA medical! An FAA medical (1,2, or 3) meets ICAO and if you fly an N-reg plane you are done.
The Irish have reportedly decided that the FAA C3 med doesn't meet ICAO. They are almost certainly wrong but in Ireland anything goes and it's not worth your hassle; just go for the Class 2.
I have both JAA and FAA medicals and the FAA C2 is actually slightly more strict on things that matter than the JAA C2, but one's eyesight is never the same on any two occassions anyway. No good going for an eye test if you are very tired and have been doing a lot of reading, for example.
Go for it. Your colour vision is tested only once in your life, I was told.
DRJAD - the IMC Confuser is a great book. If one can work through all the examples in that, one must have a good understanding of the subject. The CAA multiple choice questions are full of tricks, with some of the computed headings differing by just 1 degree - to check you are using the slide rule correctly.
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From: Almost Scotland
IO540, I've never seen one of the confuser books, so run the risk of opining out of ignorance!
I worry that working at examples might teach examination passing, rather than understanding. However, that's a generalised fear, rather than specific, obviously. You evidently feel that it is not a reasonable position to take, and I bow to that.
Interesting comments about the FAA/JAA eyesight requirements, I must study this in more depth - thanks, TPK, for the thread, and IO540 for the info..
I worry that working at examples might teach examination passing, rather than understanding. However, that's a generalised fear, rather than specific, obviously. You evidently feel that it is not a reasonable position to take, and I bow to that.
Interesting comments about the FAA/JAA eyesight requirements, I must study this in more depth - thanks, TPK, for the thread, and IO540 for the info..
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From: EuroGA.org
The Confuser books contain about 4 times more questions than the actual exam paper (100 v. 25, IIRC). If you work through the whole book (which will take you a good few days) and get say 90% of them right, there is just no way you can fail to understand the subject. Especially the incredibly tedious illustrations of the stupid circular slide rule that go on for page after page.
It is somewhat easier to cheat on the FAA exams because the entire question bank is in the public domain (legitimately) but the same principle applies - you never know which subset (of a pretty big set) you will get. But then the examiner will grind you into the ground on the oral anyway.....
Getting airborne via the FAA route may be controversial but then we are talking technicalities here anyway, which bear little or no relation to any actual in-flight requirements. The CAA may as well insist that your ba11s hang within 0.25" of each other
It is somewhat easier to cheat on the FAA exams because the entire question bank is in the public domain (legitimately) but the same principle applies - you never know which subset (of a pretty big set) you will get. But then the examiner will grind you into the ground on the oral anyway.....
Getting airborne via the FAA route may be controversial but then we are talking technicalities here anyway, which bear little or no relation to any actual in-flight requirements. The CAA may as well insist that your ba11s hang within 0.25" of each other
Thread Starter
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From: 2nm due S EGLK
IO540,
I can get a CAA IMC rating. In fact, somebody with a CAA PPL can used to be able to get a CAA IR with colour blindness. It's the JAA that's
everything up!
Specifically, my JAA medical is stamped VDL (Vision Distance Limitation - must wear corrective lenses, etc.) and VCL (Vision Colour Limition) which reads "VFR flights by daytime only". Hence no IFR flights. However, the VFR restriction has now been lifted and I can get an IMC - hence the original question!
Daytime only I can understand, but one has to wonder why, if I am boggling around inside a cloud with zero vis, I need to be able to identify aircraft nav lights. After all, I'm not going to see the damned thing until I bump into it!
TPK
I can get a CAA IMC rating. In fact, somebody with a CAA PPL can used to be able to get a CAA IR with colour blindness. It's the JAA that's
everything up!Specifically, my JAA medical is stamped VDL (Vision Distance Limitation - must wear corrective lenses, etc.) and VCL (Vision Colour Limition) which reads "VFR flights by daytime only". Hence no IFR flights. However, the VFR restriction has now been lifted and I can get an IMC - hence the original question!
Daytime only I can understand, but one has to wonder why, if I am boggling around inside a cloud with zero vis, I need to be able to identify aircraft nav lights. After all, I'm not going to see the damned thing until I bump into it!
TPK
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: Bournemouth
one has to wonder why, if I am boggling around inside a cloud with zero vis, I need to be able to identify aircraft nav lights
But one thing springs to mind with regards to why it might (and I stress the word "might" - someone with a medical background could probably confirm or deny this) restrict you to VFR-only. I'm thinking about flying an instrument approach down to minima. You will pop out of the cloud, possibly with very poor visibility in haze or precipitation, and only an extremely short amount of time in which to orientate yourself visually in order to carry out a safe landing. Typically the runway lighting will be turned on in these conditions, and will be a vital part of your visual orientation. Might your condition make this more difficult, I wonder? Clearly the AME who removed your VFR-only restriction didn't think it would be a major problem...
FFF
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Thread Starter
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From: 2nm due S EGLK
Hi FFF,
The VFR limitation was lifted by the CAA persuading the JAA to reword their VCL stamp on all medicals (not that they've re-issued them, mind!) So it seems the CAA can fight for the little man sometimes!
WRT runway lights, I've never experienced them first hand, but it is a known fact that people with colour blindness have better vision in dark/poor vis situations. I doubt I could confuse which end of the runway I was landing on because I can correctly identify the red lights every time, so the only confusion would be between the green threshold lights and the white edge lights. I suspect the aspect ratio would give it away if I was trying to land sideways across the runway!
So I'm now in the slightly paradoxical situation that I can get an IMC rating and fly IFR (thank you CAA), but I can't get a Class 1 medical, and hence an IR. Apart from the ability to fly in Class A airspace and the additional learning/performance requirements, I can't really see what difference there is between operation on an IMC rating and an IR rating!
TPK
The VFR limitation was lifted by the CAA persuading the JAA to reword their VCL stamp on all medicals (not that they've re-issued them, mind!) So it seems the CAA can fight for the little man sometimes!
WRT runway lights, I've never experienced them first hand, but it is a known fact that people with colour blindness have better vision in dark/poor vis situations. I doubt I could confuse which end of the runway I was landing on because I can correctly identify the red lights every time, so the only confusion would be between the green threshold lights and the white edge lights. I suspect the aspect ratio would give it away if I was trying to land sideways across the runway!
So I'm now in the slightly paradoxical situation that I can get an IMC rating and fly IFR (thank you CAA), but I can't get a Class 1 medical, and hence an IR. Apart from the ability to fly in Class A airspace and the additional learning/performance requirements, I can't really see what difference there is between operation on an IMC rating and an IR rating!
TPK
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From: EuroGA.org
You don't need a Class 1 medical for an IR. You can do a JAA PPL/IR on a CAA Class 2 medical, with the CAA Class 1 audiogram requirements added into it.
For a JAA CPL or ATPL you need a Class 1 medical.
FAA PPL/IR can be done on a FAA Class 3 medical.
I don't get the colour vis requirement with IMC either - one cannot possibly not see the lit-up runway. Also the vast majority of people that fail both Isihara and the Lantern test can see the normal colours they are subjected to in life, and can distinguish the aviation-relevant colours in any practical circumstances.
For a JAA CPL or ATPL you need a Class 1 medical.
FAA PPL/IR can be done on a FAA Class 3 medical.
I don't get the colour vis requirement with IMC either - one cannot possibly not see the lit-up runway. Also the vast majority of people that fail both Isihara and the Lantern test can see the normal colours they are subjected to in life, and can distinguish the aviation-relevant colours in any practical circumstances.