View Full Version : Should I Worry about Flying? (merged)

Carnage Matey!
21st Oct 2004, 18:15
Anyone watching this program on BBC1? Usual sensationalist garbage. Only 12 minutes into the 30 minute program and I've learned that Airproxes during missed approaches at parallel runways are a daily occurence, and that we have no way of recording the frequency of these or TCAS RAs. Apparently the procedures for keeping aircraft seperated are a bit 'hush hush' and nobody will talk to the BBC about it! Strangely they don't get an interview with NATS, but David Learmouth is only too willing to publicise himself, er, I mean speak to the Beeb.

21st Oct 2004, 18:19
Wonderful reconstruction of a go around featured on this little gem of a show, using RC models, which summed it up for me.

Any thoughts anyone ?

21st Oct 2004, 18:20
Yes... I've never seen such garbage in all my life!

I'm not joking sir
21st Oct 2004, 18:24
The fact he thinks he's in a Fokker "jet" says it all.

simon niceguy
21st Oct 2004, 18:50
Over the years, 30 plus in ATC, I have seen some cr*p programes, but never have I seen such tripe as this.
It makes my blood boil.


21st Oct 2004, 20:11
David Learmouth is famous for talking a load of old Bollocks!

The guy is a menace to aviation!

Good advice for MR Learmouth :

It is better to remain silent and let the world think your a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!!!!!

21st Oct 2004, 21:32
Shoulda stuck to what he thought he knew about....salt and water in sausages......oh, and a bit about cars....
Complete [email protected].
Now, where did I leave my radio controlled Herc............?


21st Oct 2004, 22:07
Wish I had had the advantage of remote control planes when I was at Heathrow; would have made the g/a situation great fun!

Strange how Mr Learmount pops up whenever the media wants to scare the sh*t out of , sorry talk about aviation and the public. Has he ever qualified in aviation in any particular discipline???

22nd Oct 2004, 07:18
Oh yes... does any one know who that bloke Kim is? I've never heard of him and if he ever was an ATCO I'm glad I never sat near him.

22nd Oct 2004, 08:18
Was Learmount a Navigator - he wasn't flying the twin was he?

Prefers talking anyway...

22nd Oct 2004, 08:33
He was a Herc copilot and then a flying instructor. He gave up flying on medical grounds around 27 years ago and got a job with Flight magazine. He used to talk sense at first but for many years now its all been total rubbish.

22nd Oct 2004, 10:22
I seem to remember this 'ATC Expert' Kim was on that BBC programme 'The Day Britain Stopped'. Again that showed a complete lack of research regarding ATC.

22nd Oct 2004, 10:34
Programes like this are always a bit worrying. You watch the first few in the series, which were about about fat & salt in food and the possible health risks of mobile phones etc and think 'hmmm, thats a bit disturbing'.

Then they screen a programme that you know a bit about and you think ' Thats complete b*ll**ks!' Which then makes you doubt the accuracy of all the preceeding programmes.

I was suitably impressed though, when the presenter arrived at an airfield to fly to Oxford and he announced' We're at Biggin, which is really close to Heathrow' :uhoh: Sure, its close to Heathrow, but its closer to Gatwick & London City.

The most interesting and not entirely unexpected observation was that DVT is caused as a result of sitting still, as opposed to sitting still in an aircraft

22nd Oct 2004, 10:51
Kim O' Neil (http://www.aatl.net/index.htm)

Self employed ATM 'expert' :uhoh:

22nd Oct 2004, 10:59
I didn't think it was all that bad....

remember it is to entertain the great unwashed!

and i thought the DVT bit was quite fairto us, sitting still not airlines was the problem, watch out National Express, cinemas, concert halls

people can stretch their legs on a flight if they want, ah but will they want to sue the skip if he puts on the seatbelt sign for too long!!

22nd Oct 2004, 11:30
to sue the skip if he puts on the seatbelt sign for too long!!

Thats the Americans bankrupt then. Well judging by 123.45 it is anyway!

Mind you they get sued if its not on and they hit a bump!


22nd Oct 2004, 11:45
I'm told that DVT used to be quite common among German holidaymakers in the days when they all took 36-hour coach trips to the Med resorts.

Then along came mass air travel and the problem went away

PPRuNe Radar
22nd Oct 2004, 12:53
Oh yes... does any one know who that bloke Kim is? I've never heard of him and if he ever was an ATCO I'm glad I never sat near him.

According to his CV, he was a software engineer and mathematician, before becoming a Policy manager at SRG, then starting his own ATM 'expert' company.

In other words, as far from the real world of Air Traffic Management as you could possibly get.

Funny that someone who allegedly was in a top post at SRG seems to be unaware of the MOR scheme or the ACAS/TCAS evaluation forms which we all have to fill in.


22nd Oct 2004, 15:10
There were a couple of good points for the general public to take away.
1. Listen to the safety briefing.
2. Move your legs and or wear support socks for long flights to reduce the risk of DVT.

If more punters did that then the programme's been a success.

As for the use of the models to show a go-round, WTF? The ATC simulation didn't really teach much either. Some demonstration of the collision alert software and how the controllers handle traffic would have been more productive.

22nd Oct 2004, 21:59
Well at at least we should be thankful it wasn't a makeover show -
At Heathrow along the lines of 'Changing Control Towers' (Probably next year this one!)


Quod Boy
23rd Oct 2004, 20:31
Obviously,this type of bol&ock$,is the training ground for Sky News reporters,and tabloid journalists,who deliver,"expert" opinions on aviation matters.........................QB

24th Oct 2004, 00:53
I have no fear of flying, I just love it! Crashing however is not all what it's cracked up to be.:ok:

24th Oct 2004, 09:13
I still claim the most dangerous part is the ride to/from the airport! Especially with the taxis in some parts of the world.

24th Oct 2004, 13:57
Should I worry about flying seemed to have completely ignored the hidden, seemingly innocuous perils that crew and passengers expose themselves to, namely fumes (the great BA flight ops cover up on the 757 flight deck and cabin emissions!!??), radiation etc. Flying is the safest form of transport.......really? I suppose what you can't see......