TSA Training Rule

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

We have been fielding many questions about this subject. There seems to be a lot of confusion as to what this means for students training.

Yesterday I spent a good deal of time going over the new Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Training Rule with Homeland Security.

One thing that the TSA did not mention in the ruling, is that this only applies to FAR Part 141 Schools. Only FAR Part 141 Schools have Visa Authority to Issue I-20s for Foreign Students to train in the U.S. and this Rule only applies to Foreign Students that are training towards a Certificate, Licence, or Rating. (This is the same criteria used to determine whether a Students needs an M-1, J-1 or F-1 Visa.)

Right now, the TSA do not have any packets (with applications and fingerprints cards) ready for the Flight Schools but are expected later this month. At this moment there is no registration procedure for any Flight School, since the TSA has not given any information to the FSDOs. (So right now there are no passwords for any Flight Schools to be issued.)

The Security Training Material for both Schools and Instructors is still under development and not expected till the end of the month. Currently no one can be trained on the procedures which are required by this new Rule.

The goal of this new TSA Rule is to verify the person that shows up for training is in fact who they say they are. The procedure will be quite simple, and all that is required will be for the student to have and application completed, a picture taken and then be finger printed.

For NAC we have the local Law Enforcement setup to take the finger prints without any additional charges to the students. (The other schools should be able to work out similar arrangements.)

When this rule is finally implemented, the student on arrival will fill out an application, have their picture and finger prints taken and sent off to the TSA. During this time, the student will continue their training and will only stop if the TSA comes back and says to. The only time the TSA will stop a student's training will be if the student who shows up for training is not the person their passport says they are, since all students would have already been verified by the U.S. Embassy.

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

[Note to moderators: I posted this thread in three forums so you could merge them into one thread and leave links in Private Flying, Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies), and North America Forums.]

[slim_slag]

Hi Richard,

One thing that the TSA did not mention in the ruling, is that this only applies to FAR Part 141 Schools. Only FAR Part 141 Schools have Visa Authority to Issue I-20s for Foreign Students to train in the U.S. and this Rule only applies to Foreign Students that are training towards a Certificate, Licence, or Rating.

This isn't how it is being interpreted elsewhere. Today I was at a flight school in another FAA region, and they have been told you need to go through the TSA checks even if you are just checking a foreign pilot out to rent a plane, and also for a BFR. That's Part 61 activity. It seems likely that in due course this will also apply to US citizens. They are getting out of the training business.

[S-Works]

So what is actually needed now? I tried to complete the ASFP applictaion form and Naples were not on the list so it juts bounced it.

Do we still need to fill on all of the VISA paperwork as well as the ASFP stuff?

Do we need to get the validation letter from the CAA? If had my JAA licence validated in October last year, would I need to have it validated again this year?

I could do with a very clear list of the actions that need to be followed now!

It is all getting very confusing!!

[surely not]

It must be easier to train elsewhere in the world. It appears to be getting ever more difficult to enter the USA and it cannot be long before people decide that the effort just isn't worth it.

[S-Works]

That just means the terrorist's have won. The Americans are withdrawing into Fortress America and America is no longer the land ofthe FREE.

It will inevitbly force people to look elsewhere like SA or Canada.

I have been planning on doing a course with Naples in the next month or so but just cant work out what paperwork actually needs completing and where it all need to go!

[slim_slag]

I went to another flight school yesterday and they are going to fingerprint anybody who walks through the door without an US passport or original US birth certificate. This is because nobody in authority can tell them what is going on and they think it's safer that way. There has been no consultation whatsoever with the flight schools (or the FSDOs or local TSA people apparently).

Also interesting is that this applies to green card holders who are usually treated like US citizens except in things like voting/juries. Green card holders are certainly allowed to pay US Federal tax on worldwide income.

As they say in some circles "No examination is complete without a PR" and no doubt Dept of Homeland Security will be requiring those to be performed in the near future before you can give your money to cash-strapped US flight schools.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

slim_slag,

You are correct. The TSA is still defining and molding this rule. (It will continue to be modified until its officially implemented on the 20th.) Two days ago the TSA added Part 61 schools.

bose-x,

This will be no more than an extra click for an extra piece of paper. We have all the details in our checklist that we sent out with your Visa paperwork.

Right now NAC will be the first school to be registered in the Miami FDSO's region, which will happen on Monday. We have spent the last week educating the FSDO, since they did not have any information and 30 minutes ago were able to get with the TSA in order to start approving 141 Schools in our their region.

The Orlando FSDO was up to speed on the new rules and have already been registering 141 and 61 schools.

slim_slag I would suggest that you advise the school to contact their local Homeland Security Agent in order to help clarify their questions on the new process.

Richard

[IO540]

bose-x

You mention Canada. I wonder why there isn't training in Spain. A much better climate than the UK. Somebody had built a big air park near Murcia (probably some EU grant "enterprise" which Spain is full of) and that would be an obvious place to do it.

[S-Works]

Spain would be a nice place and just as cheap as long as they ste up tro do FAA courses. I am not interested in JAR in any shape or form.

It is a shame that the US Government are closing things down so much as it will drive people away and harm the training schools maybe even to to the point of going out of business.

I am surprised at the way they are treating people and how they are making it so difficult. I love America and the culture but could end up goin elsewhere as just getting in there is a nightmare. S much for the "special" relationship between the countries!

I have been very impressed with the time and effort Richard and Nicola put into giving advice and if the visa stuff works out look forward to flying with them!

[slim_slag]

Hi Richard,

The owner of the flight school I spoke to yesterday is very, very, tight with the FAA and couldn't get an answer after 1.5 hours on the phone to the FSDO, and not even after being passed to the head TSA person in the region. Apparently the rules and regs are not being transmitted west of the Mississippi :). Round here they all appear to be doing what is going to cause them least problems with the authorities if they get it wrong. What people don't realise is that even US citizens will have to produce documentation to prove they are US citizens, and I know plenty of people who don't have that documentation to hand.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

slim_slag,

There does not seem to be a lot of communication at all on either side of the Mississippi. With AOPA working on this issue, I am sure there will be some changes in the near future that will be to the pilot's advantage. ;)

Round here they all appear to be doing what is going to cause them least problems with the authorities if they get it wrong.

Something we are doing here is having a meeting Monday morning between Local Law Enforcement, TSA, Homeland Security, and all the area schools in order to make sure everything will be smooth for students. It is something that your friend should do too.

That is the best way to make sure there will be avoid any problems come October 20th.

Richard

[DubTrub]

Richard:

Please could you identify that this is applicable to the USA only

(unless it also applies to the RotW?)

[me in my English microcosm, TSA could be the Trans-Sexual Anachronism, a Jet-Blast type subject....]

[Flying Tooth Driller]

Richard (or anyone):

So, a non-resident alien with an existing, current (not converted but actual) FAA licence (with or without an instrument rating) may turn up on vacation in the USA at one or two flight schools where he/she has been known for years, and will have to be finger-printed and photographed.

This will be necessary for a rental check-out and/or a BFR, or even to have an instructor in the right seat to act as the safety pilot/observer whilst the pilot is shooting approaches to keep the 6/6 currency for an IR?

All pilots now carry photo ID, and to most aliens, their passport is it - so wherever or whenever a visiting FAA licence holder wants to fly now in the USA, they will have to go through these new ID checks - mainly because rental checkouts are required by schools and their insurance companies. They will, of course, also be carrying their medical certs. and their pilot's license. Quite a lot of ID....

Presumably, this would only have to be done once at each school, and the pilot concerned may fly while the paperwork is being processed.

Is this how the rule will apply? Not complaining, just wanting to get the facts right. In speaking to AOPA, they were trying to argue that the above scenario was unnecessary, and they were hoping to get it dropped.........

[Tinstaafl]

I'm now of the opinion that it makes more sense for people seeking cheap(er) flight training to remove the USA from the list of training & time building options and will now be advising the same.

The TSA's carry on does nothing to enhance security. All it causes is bureaucratic harassment.

[Flying Tooth Driller]

AS a further comment, whilst waiting for Richard's answer, I can also point out that all aliens, from late September, are required to provide a fingerprint and be photographed by immigration as they enter the USA. So, their status and ID details will already be known to the immigration authorities and on file.

There may be a duplication of effort here.

As I said, I'm not complaining - just asking for clarification of a situation. Flying is becoming more and more regulated all round the world (look at JAA and EASA), and these latest TSA requirements will probably entail some inconvenience, but that's life now - especially since 9/11 :-(

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

DubTrub,

From my first post in this thread:

...Transportation Security Administration (TSA) Training Rule...

Tinstaafl,

This is not going to add much to coming to the U.S. once it is finally implemented. Right now it is still being developed. We need to see where it ends.

Flying Tooth Driller,

I can also point out that all aliens, from late September, are required to provide a fingerprint and be photographed by immigration as they enter the USA. So, their status and ID details will already be known to the immigration authorities and on file.

There may be a duplication of effort here.


That was my first comment to the Homeland Security Officer. The reply was that the TSA wanted to make sure the person that arrives at the school for training is in fact who they say they are.

Now for anyone just looking to rent or get a BFR, there is no charge from the TSA and all they will have to do is fill in their info in the website linked above before coming to the U.S. This should not take more than a few minutes on a computer.

As for the comment about AOPA, I do hope they can come up with a program that is more pilot friendly for the TSA to adopt.

Happy Flying,

Richard

[skydriller]

Now for anyone just looking to rent or get a BFR, there is no charge from the TSA and all they will have to do is fill in their info in the website linked above before coming to the U.S. This should not take more than a few minutes on a computer.

Richard,

Does this mean that if Im over in the US on business and I get a few free days or a weekend off, that I will no longer be able to just pitch up at a flying school and get a check out to rent an aeroplane because I have not done anything with the FAA/TSA prior to coming to the US? I ask, because in my line of work I visit the US on business, but never know if I will have any time to myself until I get the time off....if you know what I mean!!

OK, so entering the US is more hassle now, but I still like it over your way, and like to fly when I can, as my experiences have been good so far, and everyone friendly and helpfull even when just pitching up out of the blue. I hope this is still possible if you have a FAA licence on the back of a JAA-PPL.

......Though the last time I was in Houston and arranged to fly (actually a few days in advance this time), GWB decided to fly in and everyone was grounded, no notice at all......:* :mad: ....but thats a whole different topic!!

Regards, SD..

PS.. thanks for taking the time to write about this on here, Im sure I am not the only one to appreciate it.

[Tinstaafl]

G'day Richard,

I see this as a camel & straw thing. Yet another useless & unjustifiable imposition. Why would someone bother - without good reason - when places like S.Africa, Oz & NZ (& Canada?) have none of this institutional combination of paranoia & obsessive compulsive disorder?

It's not helping the schools. It's not helping security.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

skydriller,

You can log onto the website while already here in the U.S. too. I was just addressing people that would be doing the full training Visa before coming over.

According to the rule, your information is sent in and you can start flying immediately. No need to wait for a reply from the TSA.

Tinstaafl,

As for security, it does verify that the person who shows up to train is in fact who they say they are.

Part of the problem is the TSA does not understand anything about aviation. I look for organizations like AOPA to work on getting this streamlined and 100% pilot friendly.

As for the straw that breaks the camel's back, I do not see it that way at all. This will be a very simple process.

Happy Flying,

Richard

[Flying Tooth Driller]

Richard:

Like others, I thank you for for your efforts in this forum.

You mention a link to a website, but I do not see one in your posts (unless I just missed it!). I had a look on the TSA website and did a search on "aliens" but didn't come up with much.

Anyway, your feeling is that for check-outs, currency flights including BFRs (i.e. NOT flight training per se, because such people already have the licenses and ratings), one will have to get fingerprinted somewhere near the FBO(s)/flight school(s), and fill out some paperwork there or on the web, and bring a passport. Is that correct?

As many of us will be flying at places that have known us for years, our identity is hardly in doubt - but I see where the TSA are coming from if one turns up at a place where one is not known. It still seems a bit odd to have to prove one's identity at a place where it is not in doubt.

Would the person be able to carry the original (or a copy) of this info pack on themselves, or what?

Suppose someone is staying in Naples and has regularly flown with you, maybe having trained at NAC, but is now staying current and just flying for pleasure (i.e. not actually training for a rating) and then they go to (say) Sarasota and want to fly there. Would they have to go to the police, or wherever, there and be fingerprinted again, and go through the whole process again?

Seems like a lot of paperwork......... , but I'm not complaining, just asking.

As an aside, one of the largest flight training and renting organisations here in the UK have asked their members to bring in passports and a household utility bill, so that they can keep a copy on file. This, despite the fact that they wrote to me (and other members/friends) at our homes (i.e. TO OUR ADDRESSES!) - asking for this, and in my case, including my new membership card and airfield car park permit, both of which have my photo on them, a photo which they took :-) - and, yes, they've known me for years.........

Your answers and comments please.

Regards.

FTD

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Flying Tooth Driller,

The link was in the sister thread in the Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) Forum:

Alien Flight Student Program (Student) (https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/)

Sorry about that. That website is being updated daily, but much of the below 12,500lbs information is still lacking, most of the website just gives above 12,500lbs information.

You might want to look at the:

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) (https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/student_faq.htm)

Expect to see changes between now and the 20th of October.

Happy Flying,

Richard

[Flying Tooth Driller]

Richard:

Thanks for the links, and I have looked at the info as far as it goes.

The problem is that "recurrent training" definitely is NOT what a BFR, rental check out or just a brief brush up on procedures is, nor doing the 6/6 approaches with an instructor as a safety pilot.

None of these things fall under the defintions of a proper course of training, for which an M1 Visa is required. In fact, you could not meet the accepted requirements of the M1 Visa for these things. There is no course, syllabus, exam or anything - as one is not seeking a qualification! Granted that the category 4 does not require fingerprinting, nor is there any cost involved - but the TSA seem to have missed out the casual/recreational flyer who simply needs to keep current and keep his licence valid.

Any thoughts on that?

[helipat]

quote:
Now for anyone just looking to rent or get a BFR, there is no charge from the TSA and all they will have to do is fill in their info in the website linked above before coming to the U.S. This should not take more than a few minutes on a computer.


That's not what I and the local TSA representative understand...
You will have to pay $130 every single time for every single training entry in the system (BFR, checkout, or full part 141 or 61 training)...

Doing a background check on pilot is not stupid, but it could be done once every other 5 year for all pilots, whatever nationality they have... And it could be part of a ramp access card delivery process that we will all need soon if we want to enhance airport security.

But asking to pay $130 for every single training is a nightmare for our business...

[chrisbl]

Richard,

Hi, I wonder whether any of this will make passing through immigration easier if we could have TSA authorisation in advance.

I was made to feel like a criminal when I have said I planned to go flying even when all visa'd up like Christmas last year when I went to NAC.

I only hope their is some co-ordination so that the passage through immigration would be less hostile.

Frankly, I am seriously beginning to doubt whether it is worth it and although you say that it is not much, for the non training flyer ie the BFRs, 6/6ers ie those with no visa, it is a lottery as to whether you can get into the country when you say you plan to fly.

Personally, I dont want to not say to the authorities what I plan to do if they ask me because I like to be open and honest and flying is a material thing in this climate.

I will not be coming to Naples this Christmas for the first time in a few years because I dont want the hassle.

Chrisbl

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Yesterday I was in a meeting with:

Doug Perkins - Federal Security Director
Ruben Ramos - Deputy Federal Security Director
Joe Kelley - State of Florida Terrorism Taskforce
Miami FSDO (via telephone)
and members of local Homeland Security and local Law Enforcement.

Everyone except for the Miami FSDO were extremely helpful in clearing up many of the questions about the new rule. (The Miami FSDO did not have any information, since they only received their info packet the end of last week and did not understand the program yet.)

helipat,

Non U.S. Citizens that already have a valid FAA Licence, will just register on the TSA Website and will not pay any money. They will not need finger prints either.

For hour building, recurrent training, and BFRs there will be no charge, nor will there be any need finger prints to be taken.

If you are doing any training which requires an F-1, M-1 or J-1 Visa, then the $130.00 charge does apply and you will need to have your finger prints taken.

chrisbl,

Part of this new program is a consolidation of all the different agencies watch lists. This should make in the future, the entering of the U.S. much easier. They expect that once all the information of the various agencies is consolidated, the steps for entering the U.S. for Flight Training will be made even easier. This new rule will evolve for at least the next 6 months as they bring all the agencies together. Right now, they have three agencies which are not working as one - Department of State, Immigration, and Homeland Security. Part of this new rule will be to bring all of these agencies together. The FAA is resisting being brought into this program, so it looks like they will not be added.

Flying Tooth Driller,

Part of the new rule will allow the finger prints to be taken at the U.S. Embassy, as long as that Embassy is setup for it, so it could be part of your Visa Interview. I would recommend that you wait till you are at the school, since it will be a much simpler process to have the photo and finger prints taken once you arrive at the school.

The Association of American Airport Executives (AAAE) is in charge of providing the finger print card kits and students can request one should they want, but the schools will have the kits already for you. When a student goes to have their finger prints taken, they will need to bring a pre-addressed envelope (USP, FedEx, Registered Mail, DHL, etc.) since once the finger prints are taken, the student cannot have custody, they have to be mailed by an official from the agency that took the prints.

For CFI's, they will have to go though initial Security Awareness Training and a yearly refresher. Once their Security Awareness Training is completed, they will be given a card showing they they completed their training, that they will keep on them when they fly. This training can be conducted in house. The materials for this training will not be available until January 20, 2005.

I hope this helps understand the new rule a little better,

Richard

P.S. NAC is registered as training provider on the TSA Website.

[Flying Tooth Driller]

Richard,

Many thanks for your last post, which is extremely reassuring. I had spent some time speaking with the Chief Exec. of our AOPA here, who will be meeting with Phil Boyer in a couple of weeks or so.

I fall in to the category of having the FAA license and IR already - which means the remarks you addressed to helipat apply to me.

I do not need the finger prints or the Visa interview. Maybe you reversed us........:-)

Anyway, that all sounds a lot better, and thanks again.

There would obviously be quite a financial hit to a lot of operators if things were made so difficult that no one wanted to fly, and I guess the TSA and all have to balance the possible security risks against the inconvenience, cost, etc., etc.

Will have to see where to register with the TSA when the time comes around. I saw nothing applicable when I last looked, but I'm sure AOPA and AOPA in the UK will help.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Flying Tooth Driller,

You register here:

Alien Flight Student Program (Student) (https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/)

Down at the bottom of the page you will see a link:

New Account (https://www.flightschoolcandidates.gov/afsp/acctadmin.account_request?usertype=candidate)

You can create an account now. You will have additional options for filling in the information on which school you will be attending once you are ready to come to the U.S.

Take Care,

Richard

[cubflyer]

What a lot of pointless bureaucracy introduced by paranoid officials of a paranoid Government that have no idea about aviation. They still havent figured out that a small aircraft poses minimal threat, far more damaged could be done by a car/truck parked in the right place! And they havent realised that if someone really wanted to learn some flying and do some damage, they could just as easily learn outside the USA, learning in the USA doesnt give them any insight into how to hijack an airliner! And does anyone really think that a Sept 11 type hijacking and crashing aircraft into a target would ever be allowed to happen again by the passengers, let alone the increased security getting onto the aircraft etc.
Probably the same people incharge that recently caused me to be told that I wasnt allowed to photograph some airshow warbirds while pointing towards the airport terminal. Last time I heard that was in Communist Russia, or was in Franco's Spain.

I visit the USA a lot and fly a lot, just glad that all my flying is done from small airfields or private strips in private aircraft, so no Bull*** security at the airfields or anything else. Lets hope that US AOPA and EAA get the TSA to see some sense and really hope that this disease doesnt make its way down to grassroots aviation.

Thanks for keeping us informed about what is going on!

[chrisbl]

cubflyer,

you are entitled to your view about pointless buracracy although I think you are wrong.

The US has never had the experience of terrorism until 911. whereas we in Britain have had to put up with Irish terrorism (often funded by Americans) for many years and refused to let it affect our lives. However from an aviation point of view we still have to inform Special branch of trips to the islands including Ireland and there is some ramping up of other measures too.

I could as easily say that was pointless buracracy too.

I am afraid the US will go through a learning period of what seems appropriate and what seems practical.

what will not help will be foreigners trying to get around the rules, as this will lead to stricter rules.

I dont like the rules much and doubt how effective they will really be. However the US government has to job to protect its citizens and other citizens whilst in the US and it has chosen this way to do it.

We have a choice either to comply with the rules or not go to the US.

Its not that difficult and I do not see that their should be any argument about it.

Richard has been excellent in his postings and I will now review whether I will be going to Florida at Christmas in the light of the clarification he has provided. However, I do note that NAC will be closed for the duration from christmas to the new year.

[Flying Tooth Driller]

Richard:

<<You register here:

Alien Flight Student Program (Student)

Down at the bottom of the page you will see a link:

New Account

You can create an account now. You will have additional options for filling in the information on which school you will be attending once you are ready to come to the U.S.>>
-------------------------------------
Thanks for that. I know that for "recurrent training", it looks like the procedures will be fairly innocuous. I hope that the forms will ask questions of us that are appropriate to the sort of things we need to do (BFR's, 6/6s, rental checkouts, etc.), rather than asking about which airline recurrent training program we are enrolled in, or similar!

Regards.

[david viewing]

Aopa (US) just posted this (http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/2004/041020tsa.html) which is good news for those of us who visit the US to rent and get checked out on existing licences.

I think this rule is the first sensible thing they have done since 9/11, since up to now it has still been perfectly possible for visitors with an existing FAA certificate and travelling on a visa waiver to pitch up at a flight school and get training or even a flight test without anyone asking about their status in the country.

Pity it took the bureacratic and arrogant TSA 3 yrs to work that out. It would be nice to think that the training visa nonsense could now be abolished.

Well done AOPA, who specifically refer to the 85,000 resident aliens with licences in the US. I don't suppose the interests of those of us who simply visit the US were high on their list of priorities, but it looks as though we can still look forward to our flying vacations after all thanks to their efforts.

[Flying Tooth Driller]

David Viewing:

Yes, it looks OK. The first time I read the report, I thought it was for US citizens only, then I looked again and see that it applies to all US certificated pilots. I then read the actual TSA document reached from the "last minute modifications" link in the AOPA article. Reading it through, the TSA have been very reasonable in their definition of flight training and quite specific in excluding the sort of checkouts and so on that one does to maintain currency and skills. Excellent and sensible.

Well done, AOPA! The usefulness of my membership of the US and UK AOPAs is well borne out by their efforts. I wish more UK pilots would join the UK branch. It needs our support for its work in helping us to keep flying here!

[cubflyer]

Well it seems chrisbl doesnt agree with my views on the uneducated heavy handedness of the TSA. But luckily most people do, including AOPA (as seen in the link given above) and the EAA- see below. Both of these organisations are fighting the rules and trying to get the TSA to see some sense.

But I do agree with Chrisbl that the bureaucracy forced on pilots under the pretence of the Prevention of terrorism act here in the UK is pointless too. Particularly when going to the channel Islands, and when you consider the fact that you can come back from the channel Islands via France and then completely alleviate the problems of the act and not need to contact special branch.

And I wasnt advocating breaking the rules in the US, I was just hoping that they would not affect the type of flying I do there, where I havent been near a flight school for years and fly out of nice friendly airfields with no fences, no control towers, self service fuel etc.

While I agree that the US hasnt seen the same level of terrorisms that we have suffered from here in Europe, people over there seem to forget the blowing up of the federal building in Oklahoma city which I think killed 30 or more (bigger than most single terrorist activities in N Ireland for example) and the fact that Al Queda already had a previous attemept to blow up the world trade center, but their truck bombs failed to do the job when they went off (I dont recall the exact details), not to mention the many terrorist acts done to US interests and US military abroad.

Unfortunately the uneducated TSA see avaition as a big threat and cannot differentiate between Cessna 152s and 747s and cannot seem to apply logic and intelligance to any of their arguments. Just look at what happens with airport security when travelling as a passenger. They target people for extra searches, the biggest group of people targetted are positioning airline crews, well they are suspicious, they have one way tickets and they werent even booked on the flight!!! (what a surprise when they are travelling on standby trying to get home from wherever their duty left them!!)
On a recent trip to the US I had 4 internal one way tickets as I made my way across the US. Every time I was singled out for extra security becuase I had a one way ticket. Personally I would have thought by now that anyone up to no good would have realised that the first thing you do is buy a return ticket!!!

anyway here is the press release from EAA


Dick Knapinski, Media and Public Relations

920-426-6523

[email protected]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

EAA affiliate NAFI successfully lobbies for relief
from onerous security requirements imposed on flight instructors

EAA AVIATION CENTER, Oshkosh, Wisconsin -- October 22, 2004 -- The National Association of Flight Instructors, an affiliate of the Experimental Aircraft Association, today announced revisions to national security policy answering concerns that NAFI voiced earlier this week.

"We sought to alleviate some of the onerous recordkeeping that recently enacted security policies would have heaped on individual and small-business flight instructors," said Rusty Sachs, NAFI executive director. "The exemptions announced by the TSA [Transportation Security Administration] make a step in the right direction, easing the burden on our members without compromising national security in any way."

Without the modifications for which NAFI lobbied, the policy would have required flight instructors to acquire and maintain meticulous records regarding the national origins of flight students -- even those being trained to fly aircraft weighing less than 12,500 pounds, which present little or no utility to anyone harboring sinister motives.

"In response to our members' concerns, we lobbied for a more reasonable set of precautions," said Sachs, whose advocacy efforts included an Oct. 19 letter to the Department of Transportation, the federal agency driving the TSA requirements.

The revised policy still provides safeguards, requiring logbook entries attesting to each student's proof of citizenship or nationality, but demands significantly less paperwork on students training to fly light aircraft. "We turned the security requirements into something more manageable and reasonable for our flight instructors," Sachs said.

NAFI sent more detailed information about the TSA security requirements, including these welcome revisions, to its members by e-mail today.

NAFI is the international organization dedicated exclusively to raising and maintaining the professional standing of flight instructors. The association has served as the voice of aviation education since its inception in 1967. Go to www.nafinet.org to learn more and get involved.

EAA, The Leader in Recreational Aviation, is an international association with 170,000 members and 1,000 local chapters. To join EAA or for more information on EAA and its programs, call 1-800-JOIN-EAA (1-800-564-6322) or go to www.eaa.org.

[Bluebeard777]

It appears you dont have to enter the USA to be subject to these identification requirements.

"Training" (as defined, and now re-defined) with a FAA CFI in the UK would seem to be subject to the same security restrictions as if it were conducted in the USA.

So will we see UK-based FAA instructors getting out their fingerprint kits and cameras?

[Tinstaafl]

The absolute stupidity of the whole thing is that it fails to enhance 'security' at all. Pretty much any pilot in some 3rd world country has the ability - & only needs an hour or so - to teach anyone who's interested enough to get airborne in most a/c, respond to a handheld GPS track guidance & crash into a building.

No need for bad guys to go near the US for the whole hour or so it takes to teach the above. So, get into the US & then steal an a/c.

Of course this completely ignores the minimal damage that a C172 or PA28 can do compared to a truck full of diesel & fertiliser or a hijacked petrol tanker... F%$^&ing idiots.

[englishal]

Came into the US on Thursday, and to be honest its been the best ever experience entering America.

Took about 20 mins from Plane to exit, yea I was finger printed and photographed, but the INS official was pleasant, and even made a few jokes.

Leaving Heathrow we were singled out for security, first the check-in baggage was searched then as we were boarding the handbaggage was searched, we must have fitted the latest profile or something. Still, I don't object to this, it was quick, efficient, and done in a respectful manner.

It appears I don't now need TSA clearance, as per above, but I really don't think that if implemented properly will make much difference to the legitimate punter......If it is a condition of holding a US pilot certificate, then I don't mind much.

I don't think it'll do much good, except to maybe put the public mind at rest.....

EA

[chrisbl]

Cubflyer,

I was not saying the measures from the TSA were right only that it is right to expect the authorities to take some action.

I am pleased that through AOPA in the US sense has come to bear and if you like that is the purpose of putting out these rules i.e. to get them sorted. How many times can you count when the authorities in the UK amend rules once issued. Look at the struggle going on re the Customs and the single market.

Judging from Richard's post the industry has gotten hold of the TSA and sorted them out as far as training is concerned.

I too hope that the M1 visa can be got rid of now. I went out to do my night qualification and needed a VISA for 5 hours of training.

In all it took 10 hours to get the visa, what with filling in the forms, waiting at the embassy etc.

Would it not be just perfect if this new process could replace the visa. Just think of the saving in workload etc. The flight schools have all the work to do re I-20s etc, they get to do much of the same work to do again with the fingerprints etc.

You never know this might be the opportunity to expand the flying training business in the USA.

chrisbl

[S-Works]

Anybody got the website and phone number for booking interviews with the US Embassy in London?

[Warped Factor]

All the info can be found here (http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/visa/visaindex.htm).

When you go up for your interview take a book and something to eat, you'll be there for a while.....

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Hi Flying Tooth Driller,

We were able to get the TSA to change their implementation. Right now we have till the 19th of December before full registrations will go into effect for Flying activities that do not require a Visa.

So for now, Category 4:

Candidates who are current and qualified on the aircraft for which they are requesting training.

Will not go into effect until after the 19th of December.

BFRs, currency and checkouts have been removed from Category 3 and placed in Category 4. They also fall under the grace period listed above as long as the pilot holds an FAA Licence.

With Category 3:

Candidates who request training for aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less.

Will only apply to students starting a training course after the 19th of October. To give an example, lets say you came to the U.S. to do a Private and an Instrument Rating. You started your Private on the 10th of October, and then started the Instrument on the 10th of November. You would only have to apply though the TSA for the Instrument Portion since it is a new, course/rating. The Private would not require you registering since it commenced prior to the 20th of October.

For U.S. Citizens, the rule has been chanced to allow for a Flight Instructor to sign in the Pilot's Logbook that their citizenship has been established and that is enough to satisfy the rule.

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. Sorry I have not been on in several days. It has been extremely busy here the last week. As I hear more, I will post it.

[Flying Tooth Driller]

Richard

You say that BFRs will be in category 4, but the latest docs from the TSA exclude BFRs, rental checkouts and general currency/proficiency flying from "Flight Training" - so it appears that ALL FAA license holders (including aliens) do not have to register unless they are specifically going to have flight training for a new rating, when they definitely will have to go through the procedures.

That's what AOPA say too.

Regards.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Flying Tooth Driller,

They were going to put BFRs in Category 3:

Candidates who request training for aircraft with a maximum certificated takeoff weight of 12,500 pounds or less.

But before it was implemented, BFRs were moved to Category 4:

Candidates who are current and qualified on the aircraft for which they are requesting training.

Category 4 is the catch all for non U.S. Citizens wanting to fly in the U.S.

Take Care,

Richard

[SCruiser]

Having read the thread a few times, I cant see any remarks on the case of a person holding a restricted FAA PPL (on the back of an ICAO lic) doing review flying and converting to an FAA only PPL.

Also for the case of a person holding an ICAO IR getting a FAA IR.

In both cases, the person is current and licensed, and is not gaining any new skills. Cant figure if this case falls into Cat 3 or Cat 4 of TSA stuff. Cat 4 would make the most sense !

[englishal]

The thing is the examiner will have to see evidence of the clearance, so you could say that whenever an examiner is involved, TSA clearance will be nescessary......