View Full Version : Ryanair, another close call !!

250 Below 10
28th Jul 2004, 20:27
Heard that our beloved Chief Pilot R.C. is on the war path after the fiasco in Skavasta. Apparently an 800 came close to going off the end of the runway after a highly unstable approach, landing with only flap 10 exceeding all flap limiting speeds, touching down 3000 ' into the runway. Guess the engineers will have a great time reading all the data from that one.

Flap 5
28th Jul 2004, 20:45
If true that would be pretty serious. Flap 10 is an odd flap setting on a 737 though.

It would have been an exceedingly rushed approach. I am surprised that they even got the wheels down, especially if they only ended up with flap 10 selected. Exceeding the flap 10 speed limit and landing 3000 feet in and still managing to stop I am surprised they didn't have a brake fire. Or maybe they did.

Me thinks there must be some exagerating going on here.

Final 3 Greens
28th Jul 2004, 20:48
I'm not a pro - lets establish that upfront.

But from jump seat observation in the old days, IIR, the 73 takes flaps 1,5,15, gear down, 25, 30 and land flap?

Why would anyone land it with f10? Wouldn't that be a departure from the checklist?

Could this be FR bashing?

fox niner
28th Jul 2004, 21:18
Landing with flaps 10 means the crew apparently did not have time to select a lower flap setting as they were too busy trying to land the mother.

100% sure they heard "too low flaps" somewhere on final.

I guess MOL has created a kind of corporate atmosphere at Ryanair in which it is highly undesireable to make a go-around since this costs too much money, thereby compromising safety.

The pilots at Ryanair are the same kind of people as we are, exept that they have O'Liary breathing down their necks. It might be that the current internal situation, mainly caused by the FR management, has a contributing factor in this.

I would be cautious to blame it solely on the flight crew.

kick the tires
28th Jul 2004, 23:18
Fox niner, wrong and the flaps!

Flaps 10 is a well used setting in the 737. it has high selection speed and is useful because it put the flaps to fully extend, thereby creating a lot of drag - obviously what was needed in this approach!!

As for blaming the flight crew - who else would you blame??

28th Jul 2004, 23:34
Do you incidentally mean the LE SLATS extend fully?

29th Jul 2004, 00:22
The fact that you are not able to even spell the name of the base correctly, it should read 'Skavsta', would suggest to me that this is RYR bashing and based on no truth whatsoever.:* :*

29th Jul 2004, 00:52
Poxy cheapskate airline :p alledgedly .....
there. ;)

Flap 5
29th Jul 2004, 07:03
Flap 10 is certainly not a 'well used' flap setting. It can be used if you want extra drag without lowering the gear, but it is not the best option with an unstable high speed approach as appears to be the case here. Much better to lower the gear below 250kts and dirty up as soon as possible. If that doesn't work then a go around is the only option.

29th Jul 2004, 07:24
Nobody has ever had a problem after go around in RYR . It is written in all documents * Not stabilised at 500ft VMC (1000ft IMC)-have to go around * There is no pressure to land or to arrive on time .
That particular crew( if that is true) for sure heard GPWS screaming all the way to the ground . :suspect:


Flap10 is usually used at that airfields where you have to maintain 160Kts (STN for example) .

If landing with F15 is prohibited in normal conditions I can only guess how unsafe is landing with F10 .:ouch:

Bounty 53
29th Jul 2004, 08:23
"another" close call ???

What was the previous one ?

Don't believe this rumour, if it's true .........wow :uhoh:

29th Jul 2004, 08:36
fly the 800 for FR, don't believe it for a minute. if not fully stabilised with final landing flap i.e 30 or 40 at 500ft its a go around plain and simple and we will go around rather than make an unstable approach. flap 10 is only used to bleed off speed standard is 1,5, gear down 15. Havn't heard about this but if there was nearly an over run I reckon the rest is exaggerated bashing.....as usual. gear down flap 15 comes maximum of 4 miles from touchdown. gear down flap 10 over the threshold.....utter :mad:

29th Jul 2004, 14:07
I have no idea of what is to fly a B737-800 on the ground with fl10(I'm cpt on 3 & 400), but I heard that tail strike was easy at normal landing configuration. Could you just land it without hitting the tail at fl10?

What is a "still safe" configuration to land if you have a sword above your head in case of go around? Personnally I would say fl15 and a touch at the papi with all brakes and reverse working...and comes the question on the rwy minimum lenght to start thinking about it!!!

No really gentlemen, I would really never even think about it!


29th Jul 2004, 14:44
Yes, it is true. :(
Crew is in history now. Fired. Gone.
They have landed with F10 into field.:ugh:

Jet A1
29th Jul 2004, 15:35
You can inhibit the GPWS flap modes and also if you really want to, pull the CB's !

That'll stop any noise !

29th Jul 2004, 15:41
Jet A1

Surely they didn't have time for that . I believe they just ignored all the noise. :suspect:

29th Jul 2004, 16:03

crew is not fired!
The captain in question had his last day anyway and has left the continent....the poor sod is the F/O who now faces the situation he was forced into, he was not the PF and he could not convince the captain to go-around...

29th Jul 2004, 16:07
What a stupid thing to do on your last day ! No comments .

29th Jul 2004, 19:39
Or just flip the GPWS FLAP OVRD switch which is readily available at the F/O's left knee rather than looking for CB's...

29th Jul 2004, 20:27
What ever the outcome; if you read back through the posts they all assume a screw up in landing less than optimum flap. This might be FR bashing for other agendas, but did anybody here, ask the question, were the crew in a non-normal flap configuration landing scenario for technical reasons?

Just a thought. There seemed to be a lot of 'jumping to conclusions.' Whenever there is a known accident, there are many, here, who advocate waiting for facts before publishing opinions. Might this not be a similar case?

250 Below 10
29th Jul 2004, 21:21
Rat 5 this approach and landing was not due to a tech problem, the aircraft was fully servicable before the landing, not sure how it stood after the approach and landing.

29th Jul 2004, 21:42
Sorry folks, :{
info is from chief pilot directly. Crew has been fired. And yes was not tech issue. And yes again Capt was due to leave company for deep south, acctualy very deep south.
I would like this is not correct. But it is. :ugh:

29th Jul 2004, 21:45
Which runway was used at Skavsta (08/26, some 9,000+ LDA, or, 16/34, approximately 6,500 ft)??

Wing Commander Fowler
30th Jul 2004, 22:07
........ and who died? :rolleyes:

30th Jul 2004, 23:06
But from jump seat observation in the old days, IIR, the 73 takes flaps 1,5,15, gear down, 25, 30 and land flap?

It gets very noisy if you select flap 15 before extending the gear.

1,5, gear down, 15, 25, 30 or 40.

Flap 15 is a land flap setting under certain circumstances (i.e engine failure) and so you get an un-cancellable gear horn if 15 is selected before the gear is extended.

BOTFOJ I also enjoyed the Ryanair air show today over Crawley.


Final 3 Greens
31st Jul 2004, 06:39

Thanks. Obviously my recollection of the sequence was slightly flawed, as things didn't get very noisy :D

31st Jul 2004, 07:44
Nope, the captain left as said before and the F/O will be on the schedule again very shortly.
Sad that so much rubbish is mentioned here. And a go-around in STN will be more and more common in the future as ATC is already squeezing too hard these days, the only point is, what relation is given here with the NYO incident...

Wing Commander Fowler
31st Jul 2004, 07:47
BOTFOJ - sorry my mate. Think I must have had my "attitude" hat on when I read ya post cos I took it to be FR bashing. We all a little sensetive right now :\ . Glad the boys were able to entertain!

31st Jul 2004, 08:03
Heard the GA at LGW yesterday as well - from the sound I thought the Red Arrows were doing a flyby on their way somewhere, it was complete with 2 brown smoke trail afterall :D :D

Looked like good sport

31st Jul 2004, 12:55
my info came straight from Chief Pilot on 26th of July. If they decided to change decision later on I haven`t been informed. I personally like your info, rather than mine. :ok:

Norwegian wood
31st Jul 2004, 19:56
To me it seems that Ryanair flights are doing a lot of tailwind landings at Skavsta (to save time?), anybody seen a bird do a tailwind landing ,by the way?

31st Jul 2004, 20:17
Norwegian wood, go to Frankfurt, Schipol & many others - tailwind landings are frequent & quite normal! Now, if anyone did a tailwind landing on ESKN's runway 16 (or 34) & landed long..... saw a 1-11 land after the intersection of the runways on 34 one day. Lots of reverse & brakes for very interesting retardation. :ooh:

Capt. Inop
31st Jul 2004, 22:10
To me it seems that Ryanair flights are doing a lot of tailwind landings at Skavsta (to save time?), anybody seen a bird do a tailwind landing ,by the way?

Yes, seen and done lots of tailwind landings,
most of them in Norway

There can be many reasons for landing flaps 10,
hydraulic failure or split flaps is one of them..
It seems like a popular thing those days to criticise Ryanair pilots.
My experiance is that Ryanair has highly professional pilots.
and (no i dont fly for Ryanair)

Hotel Charlie
1st Aug 2004, 11:17
Well, maybe he didnīt have fuel to make the GA :-)

Shaka Zulu
1st Aug 2004, 12:05
Capt Inop, I thought somebody said on this thread there was no technical failure to the aircraft! Anyways this tailwind business, go to Spain, preferential rwy system up to 6 to 10 kts.
So interesting to see why they landed in the config as they did

My 737
1st Aug 2004, 17:44
Flap 1 & 5 have a placard speed of 250 kts, flap 10 can selected at 210 knots which gives the same speed as flap 5 (in the region of 160-170 kts)
If they could not select flap 15 they must have been at or above 200 kts as that is the placard speed for flap 15.
My opinion is that if there was no fault, and he continued, and therefore put the safety of everyone onboard at risk with the attitude "im leaving anyway" he should be taken to court (as was done in the Hapag-Llyod situation). If he was leaving anyway, what, would they fire him for a G/A, which would have been the correct action? I hope there was something wrong with the A/C, otherwise it is getting serious.

Happy landings :ouch: