Ryanair, another close call !!
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Ryanair, another close call !!
Heard that our beloved Chief Pilot R.C. is on the war path after the fiasco in Skavasta. Apparently an 800 came close to going off the end of the runway after a highly unstable approach, landing with only flap 10 exceeding all flap limiting speeds, touching down 3000 ' into the runway. Guess the engineers will have a great time reading all the data from that one.
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If true that would be pretty serious. Flap 10 is an odd flap setting on a 737 though.
It would have been an exceedingly rushed approach. I am surprised that they even got the wheels down, especially if they only ended up with flap 10 selected. Exceeding the flap 10 speed limit and landing 3000 feet in and still managing to stop I am surprised they didn't have a brake fire. Or maybe they did.
Me thinks there must be some exagerating going on here.
It would have been an exceedingly rushed approach. I am surprised that they even got the wheels down, especially if they only ended up with flap 10 selected. Exceeding the flap 10 speed limit and landing 3000 feet in and still managing to stop I am surprised they didn't have a brake fire. Or maybe they did.
Me thinks there must be some exagerating going on here.
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I'm not a pro - lets establish that upfront.
But from jump seat observation in the old days, IIR, the 73 takes flaps 1,5,15, gear down, 25, 30 and land flap?
Why would anyone land it with f10? Wouldn't that be a departure from the checklist?
Could this be FR bashing?
But from jump seat observation in the old days, IIR, the 73 takes flaps 1,5,15, gear down, 25, 30 and land flap?
Why would anyone land it with f10? Wouldn't that be a departure from the checklist?
Could this be FR bashing?
Landing with flaps 10 means the crew apparently did not have time to select a lower flap setting as they were too busy trying to land the mother.
100% sure they heard "too low flaps" somewhere on final.
I guess MOL has created a kind of corporate atmosphere at Ryanair in which it is highly undesireable to make a go-around since this costs too much money, thereby compromising safety.
The pilots at Ryanair are the same kind of people as we are, exept that they have O'Liary breathing down their necks. It might be that the current internal situation, mainly caused by the FR management, has a contributing factor in this.
I would be cautious to blame it solely on the flight crew.
100% sure they heard "too low flaps" somewhere on final.
I guess MOL has created a kind of corporate atmosphere at Ryanair in which it is highly undesireable to make a go-around since this costs too much money, thereby compromising safety.
The pilots at Ryanair are the same kind of people as we are, exept that they have O'Liary breathing down their necks. It might be that the current internal situation, mainly caused by the FR management, has a contributing factor in this.
I would be cautious to blame it solely on the flight crew.
Fox niner, wrong and the flaps!
Flaps 10 is a well used setting in the 737. it has high selection speed and is useful because it put the flaps to fully extend, thereby creating a lot of drag - obviously what was needed in this approach!!
As for blaming the flight crew - who else would you blame??
Flaps 10 is a well used setting in the 737. it has high selection speed and is useful because it put the flaps to fully extend, thereby creating a lot of drag - obviously what was needed in this approach!!
As for blaming the flight crew - who else would you blame??
alledgedly .....
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Flap 10 is certainly not a 'well used' flap setting. It can be used if you want extra drag without lowering the gear, but it is not the best option with an unstable high speed approach as appears to be the case here. Much better to lower the gear below 250kts and dirty up as soon as possible. If that doesn't work then a go around is the only option.
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Nobody has ever had a problem after go around in RYR . It is written in all documents * Not stabilised at 500ft VMC (1000ft IMC)-have to go around * There is no pressure to land or to arrive on time .
That particular crew( if that is true) for sure heard GPWS screaming all the way to the ground .
Flap5-
Flap10 is usually used at that airfields where you have to maintain 160Kts (STN for example) .
If landing with F15 is prohibited in normal conditions I can only guess how unsafe is landing with F10 .
That particular crew( if that is true) for sure heard GPWS screaming all the way to the ground .
Flap5-
Flap10 is usually used at that airfields where you have to maintain 160Kts (STN for example) .
If landing with F15 is prohibited in normal conditions I can only guess how unsafe is landing with F10 .
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absolute tripe
fly the 800 for FR, don't believe it for a minute. if not fully stabilised with final landing flap i.e 30 or 40 at 500ft its a go around plain and simple and we will go around rather than make an unstable approach. flap 10 is only used to bleed off speed standard is 1,5, gear down 15. Havn't heard about this but if there was nearly an over run I reckon the rest is exaggerated bashing.....as usual. gear down flap 15 comes maximum of 4 miles from touchdown. gear down flap 10 over the threshold.....utter 
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I have no idea of what is to fly a B737-800 on the ground with fl10(I'm cpt on 3 & 400), but I heard that tail strike was easy at normal landing configuration. Could you just land it without hitting the tail at fl10?
What is a "still safe" configuration to land if you have a sword above your head in case of go around? Personnally I would say fl15 and a touch at the papi with all brakes and reverse working...and comes the question on the rwy minimum lenght to start thinking about it!!!
No really gentlemen, I would really never even think about it!
Cheers
What is a "still safe" configuration to land if you have a sword above your head in case of go around? Personnally I would say fl15 and a touch at the papi with all brakes and reverse working...and comes the question on the rwy minimum lenght to start thinking about it!!!
No really gentlemen, I would really never even think about it!
Cheers
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Falcone,
crew is not fired!
The captain in question had his last day anyway and has left the continent....the poor sod is the F/O who now faces the situation he was forced into, he was not the PF and he could not convince the captain to go-around...
crew is not fired!
The captain in question had his last day anyway and has left the continent....the poor sod is the F/O who now faces the situation he was forced into, he was not the PF and he could not convince the captain to go-around...
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What ever the outcome; if you read back through the posts they all assume a screw up in landing less than optimum flap. This might be FR bashing for other agendas, but did anybody here, ask the question, were the crew in a non-normal flap configuration landing scenario for technical reasons?
Just a thought. There seemed to be a lot of 'jumping to conclusions.' Whenever there is a known accident, there are many, here, who advocate waiting for facts before publishing opinions. Might this not be a similar case?
Just a thought. There seemed to be a lot of 'jumping to conclusions.' Whenever there is a known accident, there are many, here, who advocate waiting for facts before publishing opinions. Might this not be a similar case?