Engine Failure Drills

[Astronomy Dominie]

Would a few of you be kind enough to detail what you would carry out as engine failure drills in a light single, assuming a normally-aspirated carburetted engine? I'm only interested in the drills caried out in an effort to re-start, not the subsequent securing or forced landing drills.

(I'm not hoping to start an argument, by the way, just seeking to test the water...)

[FNG]

Fuel on, fuel pump on, mixture rich, mags on, throttle set (half open, though may vary for type), crank starter. Curses, I have forgotten where the carby heat should be, as I have more or less stopped flying carby heat aeroplanes just lately. I think it should be hot but am not sure (edit: SC, who is an instructor, makes clear that carby heat should be on, see below ).

If you have lots of height to play with, you can in theory try diving to a high speed (depending on type) and then rolling in the direction opposite to the prop rotation whilst cranking the starter with the throttle half open. This is recommended for the type I mainly fly which has an injected I0360 Lycoming (dive to 150 knots, expect to lose 1000 feet, it says). Haven't tried it myself.

[Send Clowns]

Fuel - check on, change tanks if possible
Fuel Pump - on
Mixture - Rich
Carburettor Heat - Hot
Magnetos - on, in unlikely event the engine has actually stopped but no mechanical failure/fire suspected, use starter motor
Throttle - exercise

Order of checks depends on position of controls, as I prefer sequential checks by location for this sort of thing, easier to remember everything.

[Monocock]

Bearing in mind the majority of engine failures are immediately just after take-off I would like to confirm that the 6 seconds between engine off and impact are not filled with pre-rehearsed drills.

Those six seconds (although they seem to take about 6 minutes) are filled with hideous fear, a surreal silence, a stationary prop that drastically raises the stall speed and a very short expletive or prayer.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Agree with the above, but also "primer locked".

I will usually go left to right across the cockpit, so the order will depend upon that. Except that starter and throttle are clearly always last.

G

[dublinpilot]

I was always told that on carb'd engines, that carb heat should always be first, as the heat will drain quickly from the engine, and if you leave it until the end, it may already be useless.

What ever about the other checks, I know if I have a engine failure, my hand will go automatically to the carb heat. If the engine makes even a slightly different tone, my hand goes to the carb heat :O

And now that I spend most of my time flying injected engines, I'm even more nervous of the carb heat, when flying one with it. :O


dp

[FNG]

I know the feeling, dub: last time I flew a Pup, after months of flying injected contraptions, I found myself to be positively paranoid about carb heat, and was shoving the thing in and out like, well, er....

I now recall that the first thing my instructor did when our engine failed in training was to yank on the carb heat, flicking the fuel pump on as his hand left the heat control.

[tacpot]

An instructor acquaintance is very keen on his students not just putting the carb heat on and then off again blindly. Rather he want them to check the indicated RPM prior to the application of the carb heat, applying carb heat for a period (say 15 seconds), after which time, if the RPM has not increased, to push the carb heat in, and check the RPM as returned to it's original value.

If it returns to a higher value than it started at, you know you had some carb icing and that you should consider checking the carb heat more frequently.

He is also dismissive of carb heat application at less than Power Check RPM because at lower speeds the engine is not capable of producing very much of a temperature rise in the carburetor.

[FNG]

Don't all instructors teach the same points on carb heat? I agree that it's pointless just pushing and pulling it, if you don't check to see its effects. The point about low rpm is interesting, as I recall it being drummed into me to select hot when descending, where revs will usually be below 1800, selecting cold at (in the case of my instructor) 300 feet to be ready for a go around if required.

[Kolibear]

Atitude for best glide speed, then sort out the engine.

[Send Clowns]

Forgot "primer locked" - comes of flying with electric primers or a/c that use the accelerator pump!

Dubs, if that happens you're doing your checks too slowly! It should certainly take no more than 5 seconds to get through them. I always thought that the reason for going to carb heat first is because it is the most common recoverable cause of failure. Even so I don't see a 5-second delay being as important as a simple set of checks so they are done quickly and thoroughly every time, without distracting from the most important part: flying the aircraft!

Monocock - the stationary prop has little effect on the stall speed!

[mad_jock]

I will go with genghis of doing it using a flow.

Its ok remembering a drill when you only fly one type.

If you fly multiple types you will be messing around trying to find the next one in the list.

Personally i always used to do a right to left mainly due to the layout of a tommy.

So from memory it was

primer, mixture, swap fuel tank, carb heat, fuel pump, mags.

Then hand back on the throttle whole lot takes less than 3 seconds to run through.

Its amazing though when a student does get carb icing for the first time it must be over half of them turn the carb heat off after it starts running even rougher.

MJ

[map5623]

When I started learning on Austers we stopped the prop and restarted by diving, then yawing the aircraft. This worked OK.

Mike

[shortstripper]

Rather than just blindly selecting carb heat HOT, I was always told "change air supply" In other words if you had heat selected when the engine failed go to cold ... and vice versa. This works on the principal that something might be blocking the air inlet. If when you change nothing drastic hapens then yes ... go to HOT.

It's funny but with an instructor or examiner next to me PFL's seem a fuddled mess. When I had one for real at 1000' in the Veep everything seemed so relaxed .... I know that sounds rediculous but it's true, it did :\

SS

[shortstripper]

I need to scratch my head and have a long think about that one Mono.

Perhaps I'll change my mind after I have done, but in the meantime my first thoughts are that a stationary prop will not affect stall speed much as the wing will stall at the same AoA engine on or off. What it may do is effect the stall characteristics and for sure will cause you to loose momentum very quickly especially at a climb angle. If you were at 100' feet you were very lucky as you'd also just be climbing out of ground effect and along with the wind gradient not being in your favour, they'll combine to really put you in a dodgy spot! Assuming you managed to stuff the nose down quickly enough and didn't actually stall, then I agree, checks go out of the window ... just point it where the impact will be softest:uhoh:

Rather you than me .... Well done!

SS


Edit to say ... this post was in reply to one that has dissappeared?

[LowNSlow]

map5624 how much height did you need to get the prop turning again in the Auster? Was it a metal or wooden prop? I ask cos my Autocrat doesn't have a self commencer and I've always wondered how steeply and how far I'd have to dive to get the donkey running again.

[slim_slag]

It must be easy to forget things in the heat of the moment, and nobody has mentioned Checklist !!!!! Thats what the pilots in the big planes do.

[mad_jock]

Are but we always have memory items. Then use the checklist to check that everything has been done and clear up the none critical items.

And the trick we are always taught is not to rush.

MJ

[shortstripper]

Hmmmmmmm ... multiple engine failure in a 747 at 2000'! "I say old chap, do pass the checklist ... there's a good fellow" :\

SS :E

[FNG]

I think that the idea of using a checklist in a single engined piston aeroplane when the engine fails is pretty dotty. In the case of minor mishaps such as electrical failures, by all means look at the checklist for guidance, but, if the engine stops, the last thing you need to be doing is hunting for or through a checklist for bright ideas.

[slim_slag]

FNG,

As mad_jock says, use the checklist after memory items/flow. You might find something you have forgotten which will start the engine.

If you have one of those shirt-pocket checklists at hand then no need to go hunting about.

As taught in some places.

Airspeed
Best Field
Checklist

Of course you need to be sensible, so if you are 100ft off the ground other things might be more pressing. If you are 5000ft AGL when your engine stops then you might have time to try all these aerobatic tricks too (as long you you have the field)

[FNG]

Hey, if I'm at 5000 feet when it happens, I'll get out the Chinky menu and order a takeaway.

[IO540]

How many people have had an engine failure (other than on takeoff) and managed to restart it?

I am excluding running a tank dry.

[MLS-12D]

If engine failure is at high altitude:

1) trim for best glide speed;
2) FMS:
(a) Fuel (check fuel pressure, change tanks, activate wobble pump)
(b) Mixture (check mixture rich, place carb. heat "Hot")
(c) Switches (check magnetos)
3) if above unsuccessful, commit to land;
4) if time permits, Mayday call;
5) fuel off, master off, mixture cut-off, harness secure, hood/hatch open;
6) maintain control of airplane.

If engine failure is at low altitude:

1) look for best place to crash-land;
2) if time permits, change tanks and activate wobble pump;
3) maintain control of airplane.

I think that the idea of using a checklist in a single engined piston aeroplane when the engine fails is pretty dotty.... if the engine stops, the last thing you need to be doing is hunting for or through a checklist for bright ideas. Absolutely right. That's why engine failure procedures must be reviewed and regularly practiced to the point where they become second nature.

[slim_slag]

MLS-12D,

The problem is one forgets things. Another poster had to be reminded to include 'primer locked', and now you do too.

It makes a lot of sense to commit important checklists to memory, and makes a lot of sense to revisit this checklist by reading it off paper, if you have time.....

AOPA Safety Article (http://www.aopa.org/asf/publications/inst_reports2.cfm?article=619)

[FNG]

How many re-start after failure? Good question, IO540. I have no idea as to the answer. It is not that uncommon for engines to stop during aerobatics, but they usually re-start, and those engines have just stopped, not failed.

[MLS-12D]

slim,

Thanks, but no, I didn't need to be reminded ... it's not part of the drill that I was taught, or practice, in my current aircraft. Whether it should be is, of course, another matter.

Certainly most people (no matter how experienced or highly trained) will forget items in the stress of a genuine emergency, and I fully agree that having a checklist to review, just in case, would be desirable.

However, I can't really conceive of any emergency that would permit me sufficient time to review a checklist, especially whilst flying the airplane. It's a great concept for large two-pilot airplanes (where one pilot flies and the other one troubleshoots), but I just don't see it as being very practical for single-pilot operations. I'd rather forget to deactivate some switch than stall the aircraft at low altitute because I had my head down in the cockpit.

[LowNSlow]

My troubleshooting would be quite easy:

1) Fuel on MAIN (big lever on the floor, easy to see)
2) Primer locked (big brass Ki-Gas, easy to see)
3) Throttle open (big red lever in the middle, easy to see)
4) Mag switches ON (big shiny switches on the left, easy to see)

Apart from forgetting to change tanks, if my engine stops it's because it's conked out and will not be starting again.......

No carb heat, mixture or electrics to worry about. Single lever operation dating from 1946 :ok:

[slim_slag]

first thing to do is trim for best glide then leave well alone. No risk of stalling if at Vbg, and the plane will happily fly without you touching the controls. People stall when 'stretching the glide', if you do that you haven't picked the proper field (second thing to do) or you are just SOL.

Having watched a fair few people screw up on their emergency landing checks, what they usually get wrong is not landing where they initially thought they would. Engine checklist doesn't take long to complete with or without checklists. Practice your approach more than anything else and make sure you know how the plane glides in all configurations.

Glider pilots must wonder what the fuss is about.