Engine Failure Drills
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From: London
Engine Failure Drills
Would a few of you be kind enough to detail what you would carry out as engine failure drills in a light single, assuming a normally-aspirated carburetted engine? I'm only interested in the drills caried out in an effort to re-start, not the subsequent securing or forced landing drills.
(I'm not hoping to start an argument, by the way, just seeking to test the water...)
(I'm not hoping to start an argument, by the way, just seeking to test the water...)
Not so N, but still FG
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From: London, UK
Fuel on, fuel pump on, mixture rich, mags on, throttle set (half open, though may vary for type), crank starter. Curses, I have forgotten where the carby heat should be, as I have more or less stopped flying carby heat aeroplanes just lately. I think it should be hot but am not sure (edit: SC, who is an instructor, makes clear that carby heat should be on, see below ).
If you have lots of height to play with, you can in theory try diving to a high speed (depending on type) and then rolling in the direction opposite to the prop rotation whilst cranking the starter with the throttle half open. This is recommended for the type I mainly fly which has an injected I0360 Lycoming (dive to 150 knots, expect to lose 1000 feet, it says). Haven't tried it myself.
If you have lots of height to play with, you can in theory try diving to a high speed (depending on type) and then rolling in the direction opposite to the prop rotation whilst cranking the starter with the throttle half open. This is recommended for the type I mainly fly which has an injected I0360 Lycoming (dive to 150 knots, expect to lose 1000 feet, it says). Haven't tried it myself.
Jet Blast Rat
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Fuel - check on, change tanks if possible
Fuel Pump - on
Mixture - Rich
Carburettor Heat - Hot
Magnetos - on, in unlikely event the engine has actually stopped but no mechanical failure/fire suspected, use starter motor
Throttle - exercise
Order of checks depends on position of controls, as I prefer sequential checks by location for this sort of thing, easier to remember everything.
Fuel Pump - on
Mixture - Rich
Carburettor Heat - Hot
Magnetos - on, in unlikely event the engine has actually stopped but no mechanical failure/fire suspected, use starter motor
Throttle - exercise
Order of checks depends on position of controls, as I prefer sequential checks by location for this sort of thing, easier to remember everything.
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From: Earth
Bearing in mind the majority of engine failures are immediately just after take-off I would like to confirm that the 6 seconds between engine off and impact are not filled with pre-rehearsed drills.
Those six seconds (although they seem to take about 6 minutes) are filled with hideous fear, a surreal silence, a stationary prop that drastically raises the stall speed and a very short expletive or prayer.
Those six seconds (although they seem to take about 6 minutes) are filled with hideous fear, a surreal silence, a stationary prop that drastically raises the stall speed and a very short expletive or prayer.
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From: UK
Agree with the above, but also "primer locked".
I will usually go left to right across the cockpit, so the order will depend upon that. Except that starter and throttle are clearly always last.
G
I will usually go left to right across the cockpit, so the order will depend upon that. Except that starter and throttle are clearly always last.
G
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From: Dublin
I was always told that on carb'd engines, that carb heat should always be first, as the heat will drain quickly from the engine, and if you leave it until the end, it may already be useless.
What ever about the other checks, I know if I have a engine failure, my hand will go automatically to the carb heat. If the engine makes even a slightly different tone, my hand goes to the carb heat
And now that I spend most of my time flying injected engines, I'm even more nervous of the carb heat, when flying one with it.
dp
What ever about the other checks, I know if I have a engine failure, my hand will go automatically to the carb heat. If the engine makes even a slightly different tone, my hand goes to the carb heat
And now that I spend most of my time flying injected engines, I'm even more nervous of the carb heat, when flying one with it.
dp
Not so N, but still FG
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From: London, UK
I know the feeling, dub: last time I flew a Pup, after months of flying injected contraptions, I found myself to be positively paranoid about carb heat, and was shoving the thing in and out like, well, er....
I now recall that the first thing my instructor did when our engine failed in training was to yank on the carb heat, flicking the fuel pump on as his hand left the heat control.
I now recall that the first thing my instructor did when our engine failed in training was to yank on the carb heat, flicking the fuel pump on as his hand left the heat control.
Joined: Jul 2001
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From: South Yorkshire
An instructor acquaintance is very keen on his students not just putting the carb heat on and then off again blindly. Rather he want them to check the indicated RPM prior to the application of the carb heat, applying carb heat for a period (say 15 seconds), after which time, if the RPM has not increased, to push the carb heat in, and check the RPM as returned to it's original value.
If it returns to a higher value than it started at, you know you had some carb icing and that you should consider checking the carb heat more frequently.
He is also dismissive of carb heat application at less than Power Check RPM because at lower speeds the engine is not capable of producing very much of a temperature rise in the carburetor.
If it returns to a higher value than it started at, you know you had some carb icing and that you should consider checking the carb heat more frequently.
He is also dismissive of carb heat application at less than Power Check RPM because at lower speeds the engine is not capable of producing very much of a temperature rise in the carburetor.
Not so N, but still FG
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From: London, UK
Don't all instructors teach the same points on carb heat? I agree that it's pointless just pushing and pulling it, if you don't check to see its effects. The point about low rpm is interesting, as I recall it being drummed into me to select hot when descending, where revs will usually be below 1800, selecting cold at (in the case of my instructor) 300 feet to be ready for a go around if required.
Jet Blast Rat
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From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Forgot "primer locked" - comes of flying with electric primers or a/c that use the accelerator pump!
Dubs, if that happens you're doing your checks too slowly! It should certainly take no more than 5 seconds to get through them. I always thought that the reason for going to carb heat first is because it is the most common recoverable cause of failure. Even so I don't see a 5-second delay being as important as a simple set of checks so they are done quickly and thoroughly every time, without distracting from the most important part: flying the aircraft!
Monocock - the stationary prop has little effect on the stall speed!
Dubs, if that happens you're doing your checks too slowly! It should certainly take no more than 5 seconds to get through them. I always thought that the reason for going to carb heat first is because it is the most common recoverable cause of failure. Even so I don't see a 5-second delay being as important as a simple set of checks so they are done quickly and thoroughly every time, without distracting from the most important part: flying the aircraft!
Monocock - the stationary prop has little effect on the stall speed!
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I will go with genghis of doing it using a flow.
Its ok remembering a drill when you only fly one type.
If you fly multiple types you will be messing around trying to find the next one in the list.
Personally i always used to do a right to left mainly due to the layout of a tommy.
So from memory it was
primer, mixture, swap fuel tank, carb heat, fuel pump, mags.
Then hand back on the throttle whole lot takes less than 3 seconds to run through.
Its amazing though when a student does get carb icing for the first time it must be over half of them turn the carb heat off after it starts running even rougher.
MJ
Its ok remembering a drill when you only fly one type.
If you fly multiple types you will be messing around trying to find the next one in the list.
Personally i always used to do a right to left mainly due to the layout of a tommy.
So from memory it was
primer, mixture, swap fuel tank, carb heat, fuel pump, mags.
Then hand back on the throttle whole lot takes less than 3 seconds to run through.
Its amazing though when a student does get carb icing for the first time it must be over half of them turn the carb heat off after it starts running even rougher.
MJ
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From: South Norfolk, England
Rather than just blindly selecting carb heat HOT, I was always told "change air supply" In other words if you had heat selected when the engine failed go to cold ... and vice versa. This works on the principal that something might be blocking the air inlet. If when you change nothing drastic hapens then yes ... go to HOT.
It's funny but with an instructor or examiner next to me PFL's seem a fuddled mess. When I had one for real at 1000' in the Veep everything seemed so relaxed .... I know that sounds rediculous but it's true, it did
SS
It's funny but with an instructor or examiner next to me PFL's seem a fuddled mess. When I had one for real at 1000' in the Veep everything seemed so relaxed .... I know that sounds rediculous but it's true, it did
SS
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From: South Norfolk, England
I need to scratch my head and have a long think about that one Mono.
Perhaps I'll change my mind after I have done, but in the meantime my first thoughts are that a stationary prop will not affect stall speed much as the wing will stall at the same AoA engine on or off. What it may do is effect the stall characteristics and for sure will cause you to loose momentum very quickly especially at a climb angle. If you were at 100' feet you were very lucky as you'd also just be climbing out of ground effect and along with the wind gradient not being in your favour, they'll combine to really put you in a dodgy spot! Assuming you managed to stuff the nose down quickly enough and didn't actually stall, then I agree, checks go out of the window ... just point it where the impact will be softest
Rather you than me .... Well done!
SS
Edit to say ... this post was in reply to one that has dissappeared?
Perhaps I'll change my mind after I have done, but in the meantime my first thoughts are that a stationary prop will not affect stall speed much as the wing will stall at the same AoA engine on or off. What it may do is effect the stall characteristics and for sure will cause you to loose momentum very quickly especially at a climb angle. If you were at 100' feet you were very lucky as you'd also just be climbing out of ground effect and along with the wind gradient not being in your favour, they'll combine to really put you in a dodgy spot! Assuming you managed to stuff the nose down quickly enough and didn't actually stall, then I agree, checks go out of the window ... just point it where the impact will be softest
Rather you than me .... Well done!
SS
Edit to say ... this post was in reply to one that has dissappeared?
Last edited by shortstripper; 23rd July 2004 at 06:49.
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From: Just South of the last ice sheet
map5624 how much height did you need to get the prop turning again in the Auster? Was it a metal or wooden prop? I ask cos my Autocrat doesn't have a self commencer and I've always wondered how steeply and how far I'd have to dive to get the donkey running again.
Not so N, but still FG
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From: London, UK
I think that the idea of using a checklist in a single engined piston aeroplane when the engine fails is pretty dotty. In the case of minor mishaps such as electrical failures, by all means look at the checklist for guidance, but, if the engine stops, the last thing you need to be doing is hunting for or through a checklist for bright ideas.