Gibraltar landings!!

[RPeagram]

Every year I visit Gibraltar with BA. Here's the question:

I know the runway is short and every time we land the passengers normally clap for the pilots; just what is it like to land in Gibraltar and is it really that nerve wracking for you pilots?

Cheers,
RP

[Jinkster]

Gibraltar - great place, was there at the middle of June.

Dont fly into Gib myself but have spoke to people that do with Monarch and they seem happy with it! (good job really isnt it?)

[santan17]

Funny you should post that today, Ive just got back from my first trip to Gib. Im pretty new to the whole jet thing but damn that is one small runway. Also the rock is huge! I definetly would not like to go in there with strong southerly winds...


Santan

[BOAC]

Santan - strong southerlies at GIB mean winds from N/E/S and W at all points of the runway - at the same time:D:D

[BlueEagle]

Landed there once when the wind at the top of the Rock was declared as 100kts! Within limits on the runway though.

Personally I found landings at Gib, Kai Tak and Funchal all concentrated the mind wonderfully and ensured a degree of attention far greater than the radar feed in to Palma, for the second time on the same day!!!

I believe that Spain have eased their overflight restrictions now so that the approaches from the West are less tight?

[VP8]

Did 3yrs in the tower at Gib and some of the landings were pretty hairy.....do they still film all the approaches on the radar camera??

VEEPS

[Check 6]

US DOD GIB wind charts (https://164.214.2.62/dafif/dafif_0407_ed6/plan/ename_sup.pdf) Look at page 558 onward for wind and approach information at GIB.

Check 6

[FlapsOne]

A night approach to Gib really concentrates the mind in certain wind conditions.

At about 600' you get a really nasty down-draught and sink like a brick. Sadly, if you follow the natural reaction to correct with power, at about 300' you get a marked up-draught and it's a go-around - guaranteed.

You just have to sit in the dark, watching the rwy lights get higher in the window till the up-draught arrives (which it always does!)

Great fun though!!!!!

[RPeagram]

Thanks for the info. In future I will certainly be hoping for up- draughts when landing. Also, forgive my lack of pilot speak, is the final approach completely visual or do you have instrument guidence?

PS. Why had Spain in the first place tightend flight paths into Gib?

RP

[reynoldsno1]

Flooded runway at night, on diversion fuel, reverse thrust at 30ft sorted the updraught out and stuck to the tramac nicely... thought the spray might cause a flame -out or 3
Why had Spain in the first place tightend flight paths into Gib?
History - Jebel Attar belonged to them once and they want it back ... territorial waters and imaginative restricted areas "tightened" the approaches up and made them rather sporty......

[Check 6]

There is radar guidance on base leg just prior to turning final, but final (finals) are visual.

Always great fun landing there, plus the RAF crews are always very helpful and professional.

[Engine overtemp]

Every year I visit Gibraltar with BA.

Didn't know BA flew there. It might be painted like BA but I think you'll find it's GB. :E

[RPeagram]

Sorry, again, aviation (and in most cases all types of) knowledge lets me down. Who's GB if it's painted as British Airways?

RP

[Engine overtemp]

GB Airways (http://www.gbairways.com/) :ok:

Quote from their website
"GB Airways operates under a franchise agreement with British Airways. This agreement ensures all elements of our service are delivered in the style of British Airways; our flight numbers use a BA prefix; our aircraft are painted in British Airways livery; our cabin crew wear the British Airways uniform and offer on-board service that matches the highest standards of British Airways."

[HZ123]

BA aircraft and crews have performed this service on occasions if GB has a problem.

[Mariner9]

If GB airways is so closely allied to BA why can't you use BA airmiles to fly with them?
:mad: :mad:

[tunneler]

HZ123 - I thought that the Captains into Gib had to be checked out before carrying out a revenue flight - dont think many in BA are checked in to Gib - could be wrong.

Mariner - I was under the iumpression that a GB ticket was a BA ticket, should be no difference with your airmiles - perhaps a ticket just wasnt available??

Gib in general - bloody terrifying but great fun all at the same time, the duty free is just the icing on the cake.

[RPeagram]

Sounds like a challenging but also a fun days work.

If I may ask; (honestly, I’m not a journalist, I’m a geography teacher - hence I like to know how everything works) are GB careful (especially with Captain choice) as to who they let do the GIB route or can anyone have a go?


PS. If you are flying GB on Sun 25th 16.15 you will be taking me. Wow, lucky you. God I'm bored. I don't normally read ppruNe at 1.40am on Wednesdays but my worse half has already flown out to GIB.

> Before someone points out why I (as a geography teacher) am so interested in ppruNe I still remain (although far less obsessively now) a wannabe. My plan is to
1. Convince the girlfriend :\
2. Lay the foundations in a well paid and secure backup career; i.e. teaching.

I'm 22 now. #2 complete. Still waiting on positive feedback for #1:ouch: :bored: :confused: :mad: :eek: :ugh: :uhoh: :bored: :{

[BOAC]

RP Sounds like a challenging but also a fun days work - you are right.

A 'simple' answer to a complex topic- all airlines (under CAA governance, anyway) categorise airports as 'A'. 'B' or 'C' in terms of difficulty of operations. 'A' is unrestricted, 'B' requires the Captain to be specifically briefed for that airfield, normally by a written and or audio/visual brief, and 'C' is handled by such a brief AND either:-

1) A simulator training session using that airfield as the 'model'

OR

2) a visit (on the jump-seat with a qualified Captain)

OR

3) operating there with a qualified Captain in the right hand seat

OR some combination of the above.

Restrictions are sometimes placed on weather and day/night operations depending on the problem at the airfield.

GB will be no different. BA itself does not operate to Gib on a regular basis. Hope this helps with your 'challenge':D

God I'm bored. I don't normally read ppruNe at 1.40am on Wednesdays but my worse half has already flown out to GIB

Hope that didn't bore you too much. :D Well, let's hope you'll carry on when she comes back? Its a great place for wannabees.

[tunneler]

Captains (at GB) have to have been in the LHS for at least 6 months before they are checked into Gib. First Officers are allowed to land there at the skippers discretion, obviously if its on the limits then it aint up for discussion.

I believe that Monarch only allow training captains to land there.

[longarm]

In Monarch it's specific checked Captains only, not training Captains only. Capt must be the Handling pilot for the Approach & Landing. No f/o restrictions apply.

[EGGW]

What Longarm mean't to say was F/O's aren't allowed to Land in GIB at Monarch. Take off's no probs.

Checked out Capts get a quickie phone call informing them that they are checked out in to GIB :yuk:

EGGW.

[FE Hoppy]

Touched down after the spanish road once back in the day.
That tested the Mighty Hunters brakes and all our nerves.:uhoh:

[Lou Scannon]

Over the years I have landed there in around five types from a Hastings to a 757. It used to be known as the RAF's own aircraft carrier!

There used to be lines drawn across the runway where the big pistons had to have wheels already on the tarmac, or do a go around. There was always one of my RAF colleagues who would leave a terrifying set of skid marks across the tarmac to keep the rest of us on our toes as we landed.

In one wartime book about Wellington operations, the crews with around 250 total hours would fly the aircraft all the way from UK heading south over the Atlantic until, on d/r, they knew it was time to turn left and funnel up the straights of Gibraltar into the Rock. By the time they arrived they would have little in the way of fuel and frequently had to throw it at the ground and hope. Some just made it and some didn't.

As they then staggered towards their accommodation the locals would suggest that they came back the following day around the same time to see the next load of new crews arrive.

It was the best sport on the Rock it would seem.

Sixty years later the locals can still be entertained. After two attempts I managed to land on one occasion to be greeted by the agent with the words:" We were burning candles in the Cathedral for you Captain!".