US Ops Spec C54

[victormanningham]

I posted this in the question forum and there are no takers, hoping someone from the techo side can tackle it...

part b. of US ops specs C54 requires under paragraph 2. section (b) Precision (all weather) runway markings or runway centerline lights are operational on that runway.

Regards to the precision (all weather) runway markings (assuming there are no CLL's) how do I know that there are precision runway markings (could a runway served by a NPA or no approach at all have precision runway markings?) by referencing the jeps? And, can they be obscured by snow and still meet the requirments established for not needing and extra 15% additional runway?

[oldebloke]

not being too cognizant of the specific Ops spec.we can only assume that any runway served by a Cat1 or lower wx system(cat2/3)would have the specified markings.Especially for ops 1200RVR and below.Remember the 'and/or'rule..For takeoffs with 1200RVR one needs either the high intense runway lights,or the markings.etc..With 600RVR takeoffs one needs all the lights and the markings etc.Withh the FAA's 1800RVR for a runway with High Intensity approach lights one can assume all the bells and whistles-not so for an NDB/VOR approach.The FAA increases the required vis due to lack of the Approach lights etc...
The snow situ has always been concern after the ploughs only sweep the runway(not clear)thence the CLL come into their own.
Cheers:ok:

[GlueBall]

Take-Off Minimums can be found on the back page of the Jeppesen airport diagram chart. For example at JFK you would note that Rwys 4R, 22L, 13R and 31L all qualify for RVR 600 take-off minimums. :ooh:

[victormanningham]

Takeoff mins on the back of jep pages do not apply to part 121. it is convenient information only. what is needed to know is lighting (CLL, HIRL) and whether ther are RCLM's to determine rvr for to.

regards to my question it is not a takeoff question it is a landing question. it is technical and relates specifically to the interpretation of Op Spec C54. no assumptions please.

[zerozero]

Sir:

Part of your question is answered in the Airman's (sorry, "Aeronautical") Information Manual on page 2-3-2.

There you'll find illustrations of precision, non-precision and visual runway markings.

Jepp charts make no reference (as far as I know) to what runway markings are available at a particular airport.

But yes, it's possible to have a non-precision approach serve a runway that has precision markings. In that case, the same runway is probably served by an ILS but it may be NOTAM'd out of service which obviates a non-precision approach.

With respect to your question about snow covered runways, markings, centerline lights and the 15% requirement...well...now things get a little more complicated.

OpSpec C054 b. (2)(b) states: <<Precision instrument (all weather) runway markings *OR* runway centerline lights are operational on that runway.>>

The use of the word 'or' obviously requires centerline lights to be operational if you can't see the runway markings due to snow, but now you have a contaminated runway and must apply another calculation (stipulated in your company's GOM) on top of the 15%.

On the other hand, if the centerline lights were OTS or simply non-existent but you had the required runway markings on an otherwise bare and dry runway then you'd only need to apply the 15%.

By the way, if you'd like a truly authoritative answer to any American regulatory question go to www.propilot.com and click on the link to Doc's FAR Bulletin Board.

The man can research any question and provide chapter, verse and legal interpretations that will stand the test of any investigation.

Best wishes.

[bafanguy]

Victor,

If the takeoff mins on the back of the Jepps 10-9 page don't apply to Part 121 operators, to whom do they apply ?

[victormanningham]

To ZeroZero and Bafanguy:

Thanks for the information. I have refed Aim chapt 2. The scenarion goes like this.

You get ATis and rvr is 2400 there are no CLL and the markings are obscured (i do have the required 15%), however the question is. May I begin the approach since the RVR is below 4000? (there are marking they are just under 4" of snow and can not be seen.????)

Baf,

The back of a jep page has much useful and at times regulatory info for part 121. However by and large that info is for 91 ops. 121 is regulated primarly by the op spec as far as Alternate criteria, lower than standard takeoff mins (whether hi-mins or not), landing mins as far as requirments for 1800 rvr or cat 2 and 3 ops and NPA's. So even though it says for takeoff mins on the back of the jep page 2400rvr, since my op specs guide me, and if i have CLL i may depart with 1000 rvr (other restrictions apply). my ops specs say i can always reduce as long as standard is published (5000 rvr twins, 2400 rvr 4 engines). Where this rule gets you is if a ceiling is published, then that becomes a limiting factor for takeoff mins. or if the Jep says na for filing as an alternate that must be respected.

hope that helps, and thanks for your replys

vm

[bafanguy]

Victor,

...I see...