More Dosh for Instructors!

[MorePower]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I thought that the following may be of interest to you all:

Tayside Aviation (largest FTO in Scotland) are being taken to court by the Inland Revenue for non-payment of minimum wage. At last someone seems to be taking this issue very seriously!

When I was in this situation, not even BALPA were interested, despite repeated phone calls!

The Inland Revenue have ruled (apparently) that while you are at work ie. 0900-1700, you are required to be paid minimum wage irrespective of your flying hours.
This is great news for instructors, hopefully meaning that we can all be paid a sensible rate for the hard work that we all do!
We should all take action, and if we are being underpaid, call the inland revenue, and lodge a complaint. They will of course keep the informant annonymous.
In Scotland, the chap dealing with the situation is Mr Greenlees, and can be contacted on 01224401236. I am sure that if you are south of the border, he can provide you with any relevant info.

It is about time that Instructors took a stance and refuse to work for peanuts!
This is your big chance!!!

If we all stand united, and refuse to work for low pay, FTO`s will be forced to pay sensible money! It`s nice to know that now we have a government body on our side!

Please post any relevant comments below.

[Noggin]

Government bodies are exceedingly good at putting people out of business, then you will have no pay at all.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

What fantastic news. I considered taking this line last year but never did as I moved up in the instructing world.

Well done that man for pursuing this.

On the matter of putting people out of business I just don't agree. If it's good enough for the cleaners it should damn well be good enough for instrcutors.

People often overlook the flight safety issue of this problem. Having FI's paid by the flying hour, without the protection of AoC of FTL's, when they owe large amounts of money to the bank and are paid below the minimum wage is SURELY not a desireable state of affairs.

I shall follow this with interest - please keep us updated.

WWW

[MorePower]

Noggin

I`d like to point out that the Inland Revenue is not out to shut businesses down. If they do, it is them who lose out! They are merely trying to insure that the minimum wage law is upheld. Remember that employers are legally obliged to pay minimum wage to all their employees.

I am currenly a CFI (of a small flying school), and part of my responsibilities include negotiating and setting Instructor rates of pay in co-operation with the Managing Director. All of our full time PPL Instructors are paid a minimum of £1250+ per month. By offering salaries like this, I have no doubt (from previous exparience at other flying schools) that the standard of Instruction improves drastically, as does moral. Offering good salaries also attracts more experienced, and better qualified instructors. This leads to a more pleasant working environment where both staff and students benefit.

In addition to this when instructors are salaried, they take less risks than instructors who are paid hourly who may fly in either adverse conditions, or in weather where there is no benefit for the student, for the sake of survival! Instructors are also more likely to stay with the company longer, rather than being in a mad hurry to go off to airlines to help pay back big loans. Surely this is a good thing for the industry as a whole?

Finally, I can`t see how paying instructors a sensible wage will put most flying schools under financial strain.

Stand up for your legal rights!

MP

[juswonnafly]

I like the idea but I don't think this will help those of us who are 'self employed'

At the club I work at we get £12 quid 'attendance' money then £12 per flying hour.

If the weather looks grim we are not expected to turn up!!!

We don't even get an allowance for food yet the club serves food!

I wish I lived in Scotland More Power, you sound like a very decent sort.

JWF

[El Cid]

How is that so many instructors are classed as self-employed yet only offer their services to one school? I am no tax expert but I AM self employed in a non-aviation field at the moment and I thought that pre-requisite of BEING self employed was that your services are available to others and that it clearly appears to be so.Is it just some way to put more pressure on underpaid instructors by making them pay their own tax and NI (if they are fortunate enough to actually earn enough to?).
The school I used to fly at also insists that the instructors are actually members of the club and pay a yearly fee of about £100.Is this common or just a ludicrous p*** take?.I for one intend to become a career instructor but I WILL NOT fly for free.I demand a professional wage for a professional job,no less.Put the hourly charge up by a fiver if you have to but people have to feed their families.
EL Cid

[Noggin]

My apologies for being cynical, but at £1250 a month thats £30,000 a year for two instructors. 300 schools in the UK conducting less than 3000 PPLs per year represents a cost of £3000 per PPL before they start to pay for the flying.

In other words, lots of UK schools will close.

[fallen eagle]

Any instructor who is Self Employed must be working for more than one establishment,not necessarly in flying.The tax man will not allow you to be S.E. F.I. working for just one club.Also he will ask you what you are providing,just your services is not enough.Maybe you can say you provide maps headsets etc,there was a case recently of a self employed piano teacher who provided her services as a teacher and nothing else.Clearly not practicle to cart a piano arround with her.Tax Man did not like it.As for myself I was told by inland revenue I must work for more than club to qualify as S.E.Well thats only my personal experience.

[El Cid]

Thanks Eagle...I am myself a music teacher and from my point of view if thats the way she earns her money it does not matter one jot if it does not conveniently fit into the tax mans definitions...he has to find a way to make it fit or create a new type of self employment.To my knowlendge,the Inland Revenue hold no power over the structure of a business and it is up to them to be flexible and work around her.Nothing in English law prevents someone earning money in a way that defies categorization by the Inland Revenue.Don't be hoodwinked by anyone..especially civil servants! ;)
EL Cid

[Whirlybird]

El Cid,

Nothing to prevent anyone earning money in any way, no. But the Inland Revenue do have the power to define them as an employee, not self employed, and demand they pay tax and NI accordingly. The definition of which is which is quite complex and I'm not an expert, but in general to have them classify you as self employed you do have to work for more than one person/company, use your own equipment and/or premises, and be the one who decides on hours of work, what you charge etc. Individual tax offices will interpret borderline cases differently, and you may be able to argue the case - though in my albeit limited experience you'll probably lose.

------------------
Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

[TooHotToFly]

Well that's two IR's that suck all your money dry then!

While I agree that FI's should be paid more, considering the expensive training, usually at their own cost, it is simply a case of supply and demand. There are more FI's than FI jobs, most FI's are willing to work for low money on the basis that they are building hours for an airline job and while that continues, most flying schools will probably go for the cheapest FI's they can.

If FI's wages go up, PPL prices go up, less people will take up flying and they'll be less instructor jobs. Most PPL flying schools make very little margin and they would have no choice but to up their prices.

Basically FI's need some sort of external monetary input from the government. They give money to struggling musicians under the new deal, yet this industry probably provides less revenue per person compared to flying. Meanwhile, pilots get absolutely zilch.

And do you know what I've just found out - Avgas is heavily taxed wheras JET A1 isn't. So people trying to train for a new profession are taxed but people who are going on holiday are not. Doesn't seem fair to me.

Anyway time for bed.

[Mr B. Tupp]

I completley agree with Morepower's thoughts.
If certain FTO's didn't spend so much money on three or four layers of management that seem to do nothing but destroy staff morale and issue the odd memo to remind everyone how lucky they are to be here then perhaps they could divert some of that funding to the people who they actually depend on for their public image. I today witnessed a manager of an FTO telling an FI that he was sick of hearing about the wage moan and that he didn't want anything to do with it, but at the same time he still expects his pound of flesh and seems utterly confused why people are not happy at their work. This is how this FTO keeps it staff motivated!
This really is EVERY poorly paid instructor's chance to gain some respect and dignity from their employers, it is also the chance to improve flight safety as MP correctly said many instructors live well below the breadline with huge debts and I have seen peoples decision to fly being based on financial concerns, so surely if the whole argument was brought in to the open then PPL students would rather fly with a happy,safe, non-profit driven flying instructor......look at Railtrack!
Keep the discussion alive!

Good luck in the new job Morepower!

[MorePower]

Thanks BTupp, hope you will come out and visit!

Good luck in your new post too - I hear that you have changed your mind, and are off to fly the Do328.

[Mr B. Tupp]

Certainly am!

Would love to come out, keep in touch and we can see what can be done.

Any news on your new FI?

[PT6Driver]

The Inland Revenue are of the opinion that if as an FI you only work for one company and are required to turn up for work 9-5 then you cant be self employed.
Some companies feel that they employ FI's only when they are flying not when they are supervising solos, briefing or waiting for next student or A/C. The inland revenue say that if you are required to attend a place of work you are employed for the time you are there, and should recieve the minimum wage for that time.
Good luck MP speak to you soon.

[BigAir]

An extra £5 an hour would only add around £250 to the cost of a PPL. Considering the majority of PPLS are completed by people looking at flying more as a hobby, and as such if they are looking at doing a PPL in the UK at a cost of about £5000 a 5% rise for an FI who is happy, and has your interests at heart as opposed to pleasing their bank managers is well worth it.

Interesting about the Avgas and Jet A1, this b%$"£$d government are obviously not content with just abolishing NVQ relief for flying AS "we do not wish to subsidise people enjoying themselves flying" or whatever it was they said. Personally I think we should contact the unions and get this business sorted out once and for all, Get NVQ back and not the at the old level, but more like 50%, toughen up on companies recruiting pilots from abroad (espicially none JAA licence states) when we have loads of pilots here! Also we should kick the bloody frogs into touch for signing up to JAR and then blatently going against all that it stands for - but that is another issue...

Good on the FI's, lets make this bloody awful government work for us proffesional aviators for a change!!!

BigAir

[ComJam]

Nice to see the government actually taking an interest in this subject. It's about time instructors were paid what they are worth.

Also, it's nothing more than that company deserves for the way it has always treated its employees!

[sd]

Yes, Instructors should be paid more…but let me play Devils Advocate for a moment and… career instructors, this does NOT apply to you!

Lets accept that, in the main,'non career' instructors are instructing as part of an overall plan to become acceptable for Airline employment. They will have paid around £30k to have reached the stage where they can instruct. They will have paid this out without any help from the government, help which would be given to any other student studying for even worthless degrees or qualifications.
They will have seen NVQ disappear, VAT being charged on training, paid for dental treatment etc etc, and as yet, no one has taken the Government to court for unfair treatment!.

And then, when a flying school gives us the opportunity to gain the appropriate hours, an instructor, we will then go on to spend additional thousands of £’s to gain an IR (no NVQ, plus VAT and not even access to a Personal Learning Account). With this in hand, given half a chance, it’s out the door as fast as it opens!

Now it ‘could ‘ be argued that organisations like Tayside are being used as free access to one of the many elements required to get an Airline job… HOURS, the other elements we seem to happily pay for.

Lets face it (and remember I’m playing Devils Advocate here!), Flying schools are being used, by many, as a stepping stone, and don’t expect, or receive, loyalty or long term commitment. They give us the hour building we need. They don’t charge us for it, in fact they even give us ‘some’ money!
We have paid for every other piece of required hour building, why should this be any different
We need/want to log about 1,000hrs. That would cost about £100,000.00!
Therefore, it could be argued that if we can gain these hours over 2 years as an instructor, with a pathetic salary of £10k pa we will have ‘earned’ £60k pa!!… Yes, I know its not as clear cut and simple as that!
The fact of the matter is that just as we become an experienced instructors we are off as soon as the opportunity arises…an employers nightmare.
It’s a two way thing. The school gives us the logged hours we require to leave and get an Airline job, and in return we share our passion for flying with members of the club. Not unreasonable you might say.

Now, the downside of all this is that those who want to instruct for a living can’t, because the pay is pathetic and employers won’t risk investing in long term staff.. they don’t need to!. Even commercial schools suffer from instructors who are clearly just passing through. Our own WWW only lasted under a year in Spain before jumping at a chance of what he clearly always intended to do (well done WWW by the way!)

So who’s using who?


So there we go. I would stress that the above is not necessarily my view on life. I too intend to instruct in the coming year and would even consider that as a career, IF the pay was fair.


(blue touch paper lit…and standing VERY well back!) ;)

[aerotowman]

Well sd here's a reply to your arguement.

What about the turbo prop F/O who is building up hours hoping to get a jet job. Are you saying he should be paid a pittance?

Or the 737 driver building jet hours so he can get a seat in a 747. Is he also not hour building and therefore should only be paid 10k a year if he's lucky?


This whole business of working for F*** all is whats screwing up the industry and completely P***** people off (me included).

When I was a part time FI I earned £12 per tacho hour with absolutley zilch for ground briefings/waiting for the student to turn up/washing the aeroplane down at the end of the day. No flying=No pay!!!

I've even heard of one FI approaching a school for employment as an instructor and being told they would pay him NOTHING to instruct, yet he held a CPL!

Perhaps when you've been and spent £35K and 2 years of your life getting the tickets you might change your mind. You might also realise that working for FA doesn't pay the bills, doesn't fix your car when its bust and doesn't pay enough for your IR/ME/FI rating renewals.

Do you also not think that there should be a bit more reward for FI's given their considerable responsibilities?

And if the money grabbing owners of the flying clubs want to avoid the nightmare of their instructors leaving they can either pay them more and retain them, or try being better business people and planning ahead for the future.

There end of rant I feel better now!

[squeakyunclean]

It's such a shame that all this didn't happen 6 years ago. I would have been delighted to have earned £15k a year, in fact I would not have left for the first turbo-prop job that came up.

Having said that I would not now be earning £40k+ flying a 'not to shinny' 757. The NEED to leave and earn a living probably was the main motivation for moving on. Without it I would have taken the 'easy' option (well financially anyway) and stayed on as a full-time, self-employed instructor.


[This message has been edited by squeakyunclean (edited 29 December 2000).]

[Mr B. Tupp]

sd,

I know from a great deal of experience that what really p****s people off in Tayside that while we all agree to the pay at the time of taking the job as an FI, once we are in they treat you like dirt, expect a pound of flesh but to top it all off they insist that the pay is fair and national minimum wage compliant.
I think if they were a bit more honest with their FI's and talked to them like human beings then the Inland Revenue would not have been involved. But the management do not listen and the bottom line is someone got fed up of being a doormat and phoned the national minimum wage people!
Treating their staff with a bit more consideration could probably have avoided the whole mess, but they just don't listen, so they had it coming.
I agree that FI's do use FTO's as a stepping stone, but never forget that they need you, collectivley, as much as you need them, you have paid a lot of money to gain your qualification and you provide a professional service that people pay for and is right and justified that you get paid fairly for providing that service, wether you are a career instructor or an hours builder is irelevent, you provide the same level of service. Let's not forget that we are talking about the national MINIMUM wage. In my mind this was introduced to stop people like cleaners and bar staff from being treated like slaves, not meaning to discredit jobs like that, as all jobs are important, but we are qualified professionals, let's have some self respect, and then get it from our employers!

Sorry to those of you who fell asleep!

[This message has been edited by Mr B. Tupp (edited 29 December 2000).]

[Qhunter]

Here's my take on this, for what it's worth.

For those who wish to fly for an airline and couldn't get airline sponsorship because they were either too old or couldn't get a CEP position, instructing serves a very useful purpose.
This is how it has been for years and the forces of supply and demand have dictated low pay for all but the lucky few. The relationship is mutually beneficial for all parties concerned, if it wasn't, the current situation wouldn't exist.

Most instructors I know have taken the instructor route because there is no other viable route to an airline. For the period they are instructing they do the job with a sense of pride and professionalism. They also realise that the poor pay is part of the deal but it is only a stepping stone. The people I feel sorry for are those who would consider themselves career instructors but cannot acheive a decent salary because the market dictates low wages. This becomes a self sustaining cycle and the would-be long term instructors become disenchanted and make moves to get into an airline at the first opportunity. The flying clubs have seen this cycle for donkey's years and whilst they may get fed up of instructors leaving, they balance this against the cost of having to pay 25k+ to keep them.

So, enter the argument for the minimum wage. £3.80/hr (it might still be £3.60 but I think it has been increased). If you try and force the minimum wage onto your employers, you would probably find that your terms of employment would change somewhat. Envisage an employment contract that states your entitlement to the minimum wage... and nothing else. No flight pay, no christmas bonus, no staff discount for rating renewals. £3.60 or £3.80 for every hour you are in attendance and that's it. Whilst it sticks in my throat that I don't get paid for time spent on the ground doing the many tasks that are expected of me, I just accept it. If I took the "I'm not getting out of bed for that" attitude then I would be in a minority of 1. There are plenty out there who would fill my shoes without a moments hesitation. If you do take that attitude then your career advancement stops dead in it's tracks. If you want to build hours and stay current you are going to have to pay and we all know how difficult that is.

Whilst I applaud any effort to increase the living standards for instructors, I can't help but think that trying to force the minimum wage onto flying schools can in this case only end in tears. What would improve the situation would be an instructor shortage, and there aren't many signs of that happening are there ?

[MorePower]

Wow!!! This has generated much more response than I anticipated! Thanks for all the valuable input, and keep `em coming!

aerotowman- I couldn`t agree more; you have raised some great points!

MrBTupp- You are a man who is in the same position as I was once in, and it is not surprising that we share the same views! Have you contacted the Inland Revenue yet? They are looking for Tayside blokes to help put the nails in the coffin!

Qhunter- Firstly, (as an instructor) what is a Christmas bonus, a free licence renewal, or a staff discount?!!! I have certainly never had any of these things from any of my previous employers! Personally, I would rather be paid a decent salary for a decent days work than have my employer try to pretend I am on a good deal by offerring little freebies. I`m not looking for handouts or a free lunch, I just want a respectable wage for a respectable job!

I also disagree that there is an excess of instructors! There is certainly a shortage of instructors here in Scotland. And from what I here, there is definately a shortage of EXPERIENCED INSTRUCTORS in the UK as a whole!

Finally, you seem to have taken the view of Instructing as a means to an end (ie lets get an airline job when I have 700 hours). I wonder how your students would feel if they realised this! I also do not agree with instructing being the only way to gain "cheap hours". In fact instead of paying for an instructors rating in the UK, that money could easily be used abroad (ie USA) to obtain at least 300-400 hours in a C150/2.Which in the current market, would put you close to airline recruitment minima.

sd- I appreciate that you are paying "Devils Advocate", but what you have described is a "self-fulfilling prophesy". For example, flying schools state that instructors are going to use them, so in turn treat instructors poorly. The instructor then decides that he is being treated poorly, so he will leave at the first opportunity! Bo11ocks! It becomes a vicious circle.
Ask yourself....why do instructors go to airlines? Is it because it is "real hands on flying"? or is it the money? I know airline flying is great fun, and demanding in a variety of ways, but Instructing has its attractions too, as does any other form of flying! If instructors were paid around £50-60k, do you think this situation of lets get the hours then F*** off would exist? I don`t! Salary is a bit exaggerated, but you see my point?

Thanks again for all the interest.
MP

[TooHotToFly]

MorePower - The reason that there is a shortage of experienced instructors is the fact that they're aren't many who are willing to stick around for the low pay for years. Most career instructors I know are restricted from joining the airlines for medical reasons and so stay instructing. Gradually the pay improves but not as quickly as working for the airlines.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Now how much would I like to form a union for FI's and organise a strike for better pay and conditions.

I studied Industrial Relations at Uni and know quite a lot about the ins and outs of getting something like that moving...

WWW

[rolling circle]

I have watched this thread develop and have resisted the impulse to chip in - until now. To take the responses in turn:

Noggin 26/12/00 - Hardly worth a comment.

WWW 26/12/00 - Excellent response! If you place flying hours above training quality you are ,at best, a scoundrel (AP take note).

MorePower 26/12/00 - Please e-mail me, I would like to enrol my son in your school!!

juswonnafly 26/12/00 - You are a fool and deserve to be exploited.

El Cid 26/12/00 - You were a fool but have now seen the light. You have a skill which should command a living wage.

Noggin 26/12/00 - Your point being?

fallen eagle 26/12/00 - You may be right, I'm not a taxman.

El Cid 26/12/00 - ditto

Whirlybird 26/12/00 - ditto

TooHotToFly 27/12/00 - Que?

Mr B. Tupp 27/12/00 - An interesting and perceptive insight into the average FTO management - probably very good at producing widgets but f... all use at managing people. Fits, in my experience, the management of OATS, BAe, Cabair and Seacoat.

MorePower 27/12/00 - No comment.

Mr B. Tupp 27/12/00 - No comment

PT6Driver 28/12/00 - See comments above

BigAir 28/12/00 - Good point - do the punters want quality or quantity? More important, do we, who have to share the same airspace, want them to be competent?

The NVQ is a red herring - the government did not abolish it, it was the fault of all the self-seeking, egocentric w@nkers who registered, solely in order to gain tax relief, and then made no attempt to obtain the NVQ. Those who now cannot get VTR should consider those grasping vermin beneath contempt!!!

ComJam 28/12/00 - What gives you the idea that the government has any interest in the matter? An instructor has complainrd to the IR who, in turn, have taken the matter up with the courts. The government has nothing to do with it.

sd 29/12/00 - You make the ubiquitous mistake of distinguishing between 'career' and 'non-career' instructors. Why should a PPL student receive any lower quality of instruction than a CPL student. Instructional standards should be equivalently high throughout the industry, something that is possible only if every instructor is paid according to his skill and ability.

The sooner we realise that flight instruction is is worth paying for, the safer we all will be. If this results in the second (and third) rate flying schools going out of business I, for one, will be cheering.

aerotowman 29/12/00 - What has flying a turbo-prop got to do with flight instructors getting a living wage? The rest of your post seems to support by previous point.

squeakyunclean 29/12/00 - If you hadn't had to leave your FI post to earn a living as a turbo-prop F/O, your students would not have had to put up with the inexperienced AFI who replaced you and might have become better pilots.

Mr B. Tupp 29/12/00 - FTO management only treat you like dirt because you (collectively)let them. They will never treat their FIs like human beings because said FIs never behave like human beings. Were they to stop tugging forelocks and stand up for themselves, they might get somewhere. As long as the thirst for flying hours overrides common sense FIs will always be exploited, and deservedly so.

Qhunter 29/12/00 - The whole point is that the minimum wage does not apply for 'every hour you are in attendance and that's it', it applies for a set working week (35, 40, 45 hours or whatever). Slavery was around for a considerable number of years, it doesn't mean it was right.

TooHotToFly 29/12/00 - Right on!!

WWW 29/12/00 - There speaks a dedicated career instructor - How much did you sell out for?

[inyoni]

Nice one RC - quite agree on the professional instructors side of things.
I heard tell that Microlight instructors get far better paid than the PPL fixed wing?
Is that because there is no benefit to be gained regarding the hours towards a higher grade of license?

[juswonnafly]

Rolling Circle, I note your remarks with interest and that you appear to speak from the comfortable position of being a jet training captain.

I will not become involved in a personal slanging match however I do feel entitled to defend myself and perhaps speak for a few others.

In my case I do wish to fly airlines one day however in the mean time I am steadily building hours (just like the next man). I do enjoy instructing and would be happy to be a career instructor if I could afford it.

The current situation of poor pay will continue for a long time unless something radical is done. I do indeed have the choice of not putting up with this situation.....Result...?? another instructor will all too willingly take my place and I will have no job/no hours.

The world of flying instructors is a nervous and insecure environment, always looking over one's shoulder. Unless we all join forces and strike (highly unlikely) this situation will remain.

I do not believe that instructors intend to 'use' the flying schools. However I do think that many flying schools exploit this situation unfairly.

The whole matter is perhaps self perpetuating. If you look at similar posts on pprune over the years you will see little change.

What will be seen is that there are an awful lot of demoralised and undervalued instructors who are well qualified professional people struggling to get that first break.

For my part, yes as soon as I can I too will 'leg it' as fast as I can. This will leave my current students in the lurch having to get used to another new instructor.

I will leave and the whole shooting match will start all over again!

If instructors were paid a living wage ......blah....blah.........

So what's new??

I do hope that this post does not insult anyone.

Happy landings

JWF :) :) :)

[ComJam]

Hi RC, government or not I hope somebody gives that company a black eye.

Bitter and twisted me? No never.....well not much anyway.

[Whirlybird]

juswonnafly, and everyone else, it looks to me as though you CAN do something about the situation. If you asked anyone in the Inland Revenue, they would tell you that flying instructors cannot be self-employed while working for only one company etc etc. If you read the details that come with a tax return, they tell you that you are not necessarily self-employed just because your employer tells you that you are. So, you are employees. Therefore you are entitled to the legal minimum wage for all the hours you are at work, whether flying or not. And you can't be unfairly dismissed for pointing this out and claiming what's due to you - or if you are you can do something about it.

------------------
Whirly

To fly is human, to hover, divine.

[Night Rider]

At last it looks like the tables are turning and instructors will get what they rightly deserve!

DEDICATED, PROFESSIONAL AND COMPETENT INDIVIDUALS SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE A LIVING IN THE INSTRUCTING WORLD.



------------------
Kit

[juswonnafly]

N.R.

Too Right!!

JWF

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

RC you wrote:

" WWW 29/12/00 - There speaks a dedicated career instructor - How much did you sell out for? "

Not sure what you mean by that. Yes I am leaving professional instructing for the airlines. I intend to keep my FI rating valid and possibly teach Aeros courses on a part time basis.

I started instructing at age 20 and have done so continuously for 6 years now. Much of that was done voluntarily for the Air Cadet movement. I hardly think I have "sold out" of anything...

Kindest Regards,

WWW

[MaxAOB]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM???????? Changed my mind!
:) :) :)

[This message has been edited by MaxAOB (edited 02 January 2001).]