IMC rating & controlled airspace

[kala87]

For what it's worth I've got an IMC rating, hope to upgrade to an IR soon. Is it legsl to fly in actual IMC in class D airspace (such as Luton or Bristol control zones/ areas) and do an instrument approach? I get wildly varying answers on this from different instructors. Some say no, you have to ask for Special VFR (ie vis at least 3 km, in sight of surface), others say no problem.

[Crosswind Limits]

Interesting question - anyone got any correct answers? I will try and find out this week and post a message here.

[This message has been edited by Crosswind Limits (edited 27 August 2000).]

[rolling circle]

Extract from The Air Navigation Order 2000, Schedule 8, Part B 1:

Instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes) shall within the United Kingdom:

(a) subject to paragraph (c), entitle the holder of a United Kingdom Private Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) or a United Kingdom Basic Commercial Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) to fly as pilot in command of an aeroplane without being subject to the restrictions contained respectively in paragraphs (2)(c) and (f) of the privileges of the United Kingdom Private Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes) or (2)(b)(vii) or (ix) Of the privileges of the United Kingdom Basic Commercial Pilot's Licence (Aeroplanes)

(b) subject to paragraph (c), entitle the holder of a JAR-FCL Private Pilot Licence (Aeroplane) to fly as pilot in command of an aeroplane in Class D or E airspace in circumstances which require compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules.

(c) the holder shall not fly:
(i) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 3 km;
(ii) when the aeroplane is taking off or landing at any place if the flight visibility below cloud is less than 1800 metres.


Paragraphs (2)(c) and (f) of the UK PPL privileges which do not apply to the holder of an IMC rating:

(2)(c) He shall not, unless his licence includes an instrument rating (aeroplane) or an instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes), fly as pilot in command of such an aeroplane:
(i) on a flight outside controlled airspace when the flight visibility is less than 3km;
(ii) on a special VFR flight in a control zone in a flight visibility of less than 10km except on a route or in an aerodrome traffic zone notified for the purpose of this sub-paragraph; or
(iii) out of sight of the surface.

(2)(f) He shall not, unless his licence includes an instrument rating (aeroplanes) or an instrument meteorological conditions rating (aeroplanes), fly as pilot in command or co-pilot of such an aeroplane flying in Class D or E airspace in circumstances which require compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules.

The refernces to BCPL(A) privileges have exactly the same wording.
-------------------------------

So, you can fly as pilot in command of an aeroplane in Class D airspace in circumstances which require compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules (e.g. in IMC).

I would strongly suggest that you avoid taking any further instruction or advice from those incompetent instructors who were unable to quote this quite fundamental piece of legislation. The fact that you are blundering around the FIR, not knowing the privileges of the licence and ratings you hold is another matter. Ignorance of the law is not accepted by the courts as a valid defence.

[BEagle]

This confusion has probably arisen because of the fact that the rules changed a couple of years ago. Before then there were certain areas of Class D and E airspace, such as Cardiff, in which flight under IMC with an IMC Rating was prohibited. These were the 'ANO 8' areas - however, a commonsense approach by the CAA greatly simplified things. No longer did people scratch around in very marginal VMC at low level; traffic permitting they could now fly an instrument approach at such places.

[BlueLine]

The airfields notified for the purposes of Schedule 8 changed 4 years ago.

[kala87]

Appreciate yr replies.
Rolling circle: thanks for quoting the ANO at length. Should have looked it up myself, I know. By the way, I haven't flown in IMC in Class D/E since getting the rating fairly recently, hence the question. There are 3 airports with instrument appoaches near here, all of which only have ATZ's, so all my approaches have been in to these fields.

[arrow2]

Another side issue is that, whilst with an IMC rating your privileges entitle you to fly IFR in Class D & E airspace, you do need a clearance before you enter Class D and this could be refused - try getting one into Gatwick!

arrow 2

[BlueLine]

If you were IFR inbound to land you will get one. Bumbling through the zone IFR is another issue.

[babble]

This issue is now relevent to most pilots. Since JAR FCL a multi crew instrument rating renewal is no longer valid for single crew aircraft. I presume therefore that without an IR renewal on single crew aircraft an ATPL is effectivly downgraded to IMC rating privilages when flying light aircraft. Is this correct?

[watford]

babble, you are correct as far as UK National licences go. However, the JAR professional licences do not automatically include an IMC rating as do the UK National licences. The holder of a JAR ATP(A) with a multi-crew instrument rating would have no IFR privileges in a single crew aeroplane.

It is possible to add an IMC rating to a JAR professional licence for use only in UK airspace by taking the same Skill Test and periodic Proficiency Checks as a PPL holder.
http://www.srg.caa.co.uk/documents/srg_fcl_PolicyUpdate310800.pdf

[BEagle]

Yet more utter lunacy from the JAA!! Surely existing IMC Rating holders have some sort of 'Grandfather rights'?
Another reason NOT to convert to a JAA licence!! Sort this nonsense out CAA!

[watford]

Sorry BEagle, don't see your problem. There is nothing to prevent an existing IMC rating holder taking that rating with him to a JAR licence and continuing to maintain it exactly as he does now. If the JAA licence holder mainatins a single-crew IR then the IMC rating is automatically revalidated with the IR, and lasts for 25 months. Considering that the JAA CPL is, and always has been, a purely VFR licence (akin to the UK BCPL), that seems entirely sensible.

If, however, the CPL (or ATP) holder has only a multi-crew IR then the IMC rating must be revalidated every 25 months by proficiency check. Again an eminently sensible course of action.

[BEagle]

NO!! A UK CPL has always included IMC and Night Rating privileges. The fact that Johnny Foreigner's licence doesn't is nihil ad rem. A multi-crew IR may be added to a UK CPL, but an IMC Rating is implicit.
JAA licences issued upon conversion from existing UK CPLs SHOULD therefore continue to include IMC Rating privileges for those who maintain the equivalent validity of their UK licensing requirements.
If not, then why not? Or wasn't it invented in Europe?

[babble]

watford, thanks for your reply. Perhaps you could clear up a related issue.

To maintain a SEP class rating JAR FCL requires that (if I do not do a SEP class rating proficiency check) I must fly 12 hours on SEP or TMG in the 12 months preceeding rating expiry and (quote):

(B) complete a training flight of at least 1 hours duration with a flight instructor. This flight may be replaced by any other proficiency check or skill test for a class or type rating.

I interpret this as meaning that if I pass my annual type rating proficiency check for a transport aeroplane (in the simulator), I do not need to do the 1 hour training flight. Again is this interpretation correct?

Of course if I later need (or choose) to do a bi annual IMC rating proficiency check then the issue becomes academic, but right now I still have my UK ATPL with built in IMC rating priviliges.

[BlueLine]

Perfectly correct babble.

[babble]

Thanks, BlueLine. I thought I was right, only at my last base check I asked the TRE (who also owns a light aeroplane) and he said we would have to do the 1 hour with an instructor.

[mickg]

Just so I understand then:

I have a CAA ATPL(A) with a SEP class rating. Do I have an implicit IMC rating for use on SEP a/c and is the rating currency maintained if my ATPL/multi-IR is also current.

Sorry to be so slow on the uptake!!

[BEagle]

BlueLine - could you please ask your fellow inmates at the Belgrano the answer to this as it will affect quite a few of our FIs!!

[rolling circle]

BEagle - No need to bother the Belgrano, simply look at the ANO 2000, Schedule 8, Section 1.

UK CPL(A) - Privileges of a UK PPL(A) which includes an IMC rating and Night Rating.

UK ATPL(A) - Privileges of a CPL(A) without the restriction of public transport only in single pilot aeroplanes.

If you hold a valid UK CPL or ATPL you have IMC rating privileges. Why does everyone insist on making things more difficult than they really are?

The fact that the IMC rating should have been strangled at birth is another matter.

[BEagle]

Yes, Rolling Hole mon ami, you're absolutely right - I just wanted chum BlueLine or another Belgrano inmate to confirm that.
Bit perplexed about your criticism of the IMC Rating - yes, I know that it isn't a full IR but sensibly used within its limitations it's a valuable contribution to flight safety in light aircraft. I'd sooner cruise VMC on top than grope around underneath in the clag 'in sight of the surface'.

[StrateandLevel]

The privileges of a UK CPL and ATPL prohibit flight under IFR in Class A, B and C airspace unless you hold a valid IR. (ANO Sched 8)Therefore you are not prohibited from flying IFR in any other Class of Airspace. This inbuilt privilege is not a rating and therefore needs no revalidation.

The reference to having the privileges of a PPL with IMC rating is largely irrelevant as the very same privilege is built into the licence. Art 25 states that IMC Rating privileges are not valid unles you have a valid Certificate of Test!

So to sum up, the privilege to fly IFR in Classes D,E, F and G airspace is a basic licence privilege for the UK CPL and ATPL holder and the reference to the IMC rating is a total red herring.

[mickg]

Thanks Strateandlevel for clearing(!) it up. One last Q - are there any additional allowances that need to be added to the DA/MDA for and Inst app? ( a la amber/white ratings in the military)

[StrateandLevel]

The AIP gives advisory minima for IMC rated pilots of 500 ft for a precision appraoch and 600 feet for a non precision approach. Normally an IMC rated pilot would add 200 feet to the MDH or DH with an additional 50 ft PEC to DH for non calibrated aircraft i.e most light singles and twins. The AIP advises pilots not in current practice (28 days)to add a further 100 ft. Legally however, you can operate to the published minima.

AIP AD1-1-2 Para 3.3.2

[This message has been edited by StrateandLevel (edited 15 September 2000).]