Airline Pilots and Divorce

[airing cupboard]

Hi,
I'm just starting out on my airline career, and I have noticed a worrying trend amongst the Captains I fly with: a lot of them (I would say 60%) are divorced, or in the process of divorce, and some are on their second or third marriage.
This is a much higher ratio than the national British average (1 in 3 roughly).
Can anyone who has been through the experience shed light on why this happens? Obviously the life-style plays a major role. I'm looking for individual experiences, what happened, why and what (maybe?) could have been done to prevent it. It's easier on an annonymous website to divulge details than face to face in a small flight deck!
The reason that I'm asking: I am in a very serious relationship that I would give anything to make work, and in addition carry on my other love in life, flying.
:D

Thanks.

[ETOPS]

airing cupboard

Been there, got the t-shirt. She got everything else.

(Warning - Humour alert not to be taken seriously)


Heard a great Country and Western song recently. The title
was "If I'd shot her when I met her, I'd be out of Jail by now!"

Made me smile ...........

Hope your career and relationship keep in close formation.

[Notso Fantastic]

Rod Stewart had it right- 'just find a woman you don't like and give her a house!'.
There's chicks galore in aviation (unless you're into cargo). The one you meet at 20 and fall in love with very often is not the one you want at 40. It happens. Don't fight it. I stayed with Mrs. Notso Mk 1 for too long and it got me nowhere but a vastly more expensive D settlement. Just go where life blows you.

[fireflybob]

George Bernard Shaw's advice to anyone contemplating marriage was "Don't".

Reminds of a mate who wanted to become an airline pilot (he succeeded) but when he spoke to the Chief Pilot (then) of leading UK leisure airline for advice, said CP commented "Why do you want to be an airline pilot - there are only two things that pilots get, divorces and piles!"

[scroggs]

As has been said many times, if it flies, floats or (ahem) 'engages in sexual activity', rent it, don't buy it!

Had two marriages, and the pressures of (in the first) military life and (the second) airline lifestyle were just too much for the respective wives. Maybe it's something about the personality of pilots that predisposes us to give more attention to the job than we do to our spouses, but it's certainly true that relationships and aviation don't mix well.

Of my colleagues in Virgin, I can think of only a handful that have maintained a marriage from before they joined. And no, it's not necessarily the presence of beautiful hosties that dooms us to failure!

[Bobilio]

Not quite airline standard yet, but hoping to get there. But I already want to ship the wife off. She doesn't understand the whole pilot thing, and doesn't want to. It's not that I force it on her either, she just doesn't care for it (or me)!! I say if flying is truly your passion go with your heart. You can always buy a wife later.:ok:

[Herod]

Your problem here is that you have two loves in your life. One thing is for sure, the flying one won't go away. My only advice is to work your best on the other one. Hopefully your partner understands, especially if you don't live aviation 100% of the time you are at home.

For your own part, the best thing is to avoid the tempation. A shared bottle of wine under the palm trees can sound fun, but it's very easy for things to get out of hand.

Good luck. I'm on my second marriage, to someone totally unconnected to aviation, and I'm determined this one will work. It has done for nearly fourteen years now.

[2FLYEU]

A shared bottle of wine under the palm trees can sound fun, but it's very easy for things to get out of hand....

Herod said it all .Better avoid temptation!

At this point it would be interesting to see where the divorce
rate is Higher:

Long Haul or short haul pilots.

Just a curiosity guys.....

(I've been a short haul only guy and I feel to mix the profession with marriage is often difficult for our partners.
I don't even want to know how it will be on Long haul !!)
:{

[dnx]

airing cupboard

Maybe the reason why so many pilots’ marriages end in divorce is because the whole personality profile of an aviator does not cater for long and intimate relationships.
After all, the average pilot is an egocentric know-it-all, introverted load-mouth and anal-retentive busybody. And those are his/her more endearing qualities.
Since I am one of those myself and since I have also been married and divorced I think I know what I am talking about. Partners want commitment, pilots enjoy freedom. Spouses crave attention, pilots have a very short attention span, we need diversion otherwise we get bored. A relationship means long-time planning and expectations, the average pilot these days works 2 or 3 years for the same employer and than gets sacked, the company goes bankrupt or merges with an other entity etc etc etc. i.e. no security or steady future outlook. It forms our collective character. It is what makes us so interesting as conversation topics but keeps us from initiating close, intimate and long-lasting personal relationships.
For your sake I hope you’re different.

dnx

[Captain Airclues]

Sorry to go against the flow, but I've been married for 31 years and still very much in love with Mrs A. (I've been flying longhaul for 35 years).
At a recent reunion of my 1968 Hamble course, over three quarters of the guys were still on wife No 1.

Airclues

[Snigs]

Thanks for that Airclues, my wife needed to see a bit of positive input. :)

[con-pilot]

Well it is true that a lot of pilots suffer from AIDS.

Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome = AIDS.

Had it myself once. Cured now.
:E

[flufdriver]

Well, I guess I'm one of those boring ones:bored:

This August it will be 33 years of continous warfare...err I mean wedded bliss for my Wife and me.

I've also had the same flying job for 25 years, so maybe I just don't like to keep changing things?

Of course, I spent quite a bit of time to look for a good woman and found one, I do not feel responsible if she did not look for a good man.

Many of my colleagues that have gone trough divorce, seem to get on better with their first wife's now then they did when they were married and it looks to me like some wouldn't mind trading back.

[gatwickflyer]

'THE AVERAGE PILOT , DESPITE THE SOMETIMES SWAGGERING EXTERIOR, IS VERY MUCH CAPABLE OF SUCH FEELINGS AS LOVE, AFFECTION,INTIMACY AND CARING.
THESE FEELINGS JUST DO NOT INVOLVE ANYBODY ELSE.'

-- US NAVY TIMES

A liitle lightener to kick off with.

Interesting topic , flying and divorce , I don't think we should take it too seriously , we are not that different to most guys , just have more toys and earn money doing our hobby.

I personally have 'failed' twice at the marriage bit. The first time was a problem of being too young ( 21 and 19 ) we married for passport/visa reasons before we had time to realise we were only in it for the passion ( we have just met up by accident after 27 years and get on really well - even her hubby likes me !! )The 2nd time was the serious one but sadly she fell apart after i dragged her back to UK from Africa ( where she had grown up , as had I ) with 3 kids in tow , no nanny etc and while i was happy as a P.I.S with my flying/golfing life , she was not and disappeared down a brandy bottle. My kids are well balanced , we have never ever argued over them and have remained good buddies.
A recent relationship has foundered on the fact that I do not have 3 out of 4 weekends off a month ( she is a London based workaholic who needs to be pampered at weekends ! ).

So , pilots need to marry a practical broadshouldered type of girl who is quite ok with periods on her own without becoming paranoid over the nightstops-with-pretty ladies . She needs to have a life of her own and trust you implicitly ( this should be both ways ) Just make sure of some quality time together on a regular basis , cross your fingers and accept ' que sera sera '.

With my record you may think I am probably not really qualified to comment , but I do know when an 'aviation' marriage is going to work and I do know that there are many happy ones these days because people are more open about what they want before tripping down the aisle. I am still looking !!
BONNE CHANCE

[icemaiden]

It sounds like you will be fine airing cupboard, lets face it - very often the third wife syndrome is an incurable case of grass is greener (very often is when its just been laid) and is not at all unique to the pilot fraternity. Divorce isn't a symptom of flying, you love your work and that is bound to show at home, if she loves her career/life as much as you do then it is probably going to be a very supportive environment.

Personally I dont think its a worrying trend either. Lets face it - better off with a "period of life partner" than you are putting up with what once worked in the name of continuity for both involved, and if it isn't going well at home, work is the first place that its going to show (esp if work involves aforementioned palm tree scenario). Failed marriage is rarely something either side are proud of, and it's always a complex task to consider why certain things happened - let alone how to put them straight. But if you have an attitude that says "I would give anything to make this work" and your partner does too - you are both very lucky.

[ETOPS]

Humorous thread drift alert!!!

Once asked a senior colleague how long he had been married. he replied " We have had 5 very happy years"

"Been married 32 years mind you!!!!"

[Fokkerwokker]

Two cheapest words in the whole world??

YES DEAR!:ok:

[witchdoctor]

It really does depend on a lot of things, not least what each of you are like as individuals and what you both want from your relationship.

(If she wants your house, car and a nice boat for her place in the Med, then I suppose you're doomed).;)

I've been with Mrs WD for 14 years. We met when I wor nobbut a lad and looking to join the RAF as a pilot. I wasn't selfish enough to risk our relationship whilst I pursued the only career I ever wanted, so dumped the RAF idea when I left the UAS during my second year at uni. It was a hard decision to take.

But, I don't regret that decision for a minute. In fact, 12 years later, here I am with my CPL looking for my first airline job. We've spent huge amounts of time apart during my training, and we still don't have any money to show for full-time careers. It certainly hasn't been easy getting here, but we've never been happier.

As for any extra-marital naughtiness, well I'm butt ugly and skint, and so far the only girl (other than my splendid missus) who showed any interest in me in the last 14 years was crazier than a ****house rat and damn near half my age. Hardly think the hosties are going to be queueing up at the door for this old fart.:}

[culturefreak]

Reading this thread made me want to walk out on my pilot boy friend, which makes me wonder why he would have forwarded this to me to begin with.

I think pilots tend to over estimate their position on this planet. I mean, you fly planes not save lives. The thing that gets to me the most is the way my bf makes decisions without first consulting with me. It is very presumptuous...and RUDE!!!!!

The personality type that makes a good aviator, needs to understand that their significant others are not planes that need to be commanded by them. We are human beings with wants and needs, and if you can just think of it that way, divorce would not be so prominent.

That said, some of the comments here are very enlightening, and help me understand him a little better.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Culture Freak,

If I can take issue with one aspect of your answer. By doing our jobs properly we can save hundreds of lives at a time.

As far as I am aware, Surgeons dont have to be professionally examined and risk their livelihood twice a year either.

[Digitalis]

I didn't realise I saved hundreds of lives every time I went to work. Coo, lumme. There I was thinking that my job was taking people from A to B, and all the time what I was really doing was saving their lives! :O

Um, could you tell me what they were going to die of? :confused:

Perhaps I'll apply to the NHS as a mass-production life-saver. I'll probably save them lots of money as well!


Or are we perhaps overstating the case, somewhat, Bananas?

[Anti-ice]

LOL Digitalis , good reply ,perhaps thats the problem - pilots can be a bit precious :p

I think that some women purposely go out with a pilot knowing they will be very well provided for,and have the perks of concessions etc too !! /and alot of time to themselves to spend all that lovely money :uhoh:
I know of 2 girls who did that for that reason,3 years down the line they are divorced :bored:

However , if they truely love each other, none of that will count.
I think its important to spend time with each other mainly.

I work my roster so that i do have alot of time at home, and it works. Its hardgoing travelling wise/ but its worth it.
I'm also shorthaul, my other half has said that they wouldn't have evn bothered if i was longhaul - strangely my only pals that are single are longhaul too . . so maybe thats a warning sign ??

[Airbus Girl]

Interesting comments. I wonder if it works the other way around - if the wife is the pilot and the husband has a "normal" job?

gatwickflyer - I think your comments are pretty accurate.

I think pilots think of their time off as very precious, so if their partner wants them to do something a bit boring (like choosing furniture, whatever) during their days off then they get a bit miffed.

My other half has plenty of interests and I make sure that if I happen to be off when he is, that I don't expect him to stop doing his usual hobbies just because I happen to have a weekend off.

However, we do make a point of planning some time together when we know that we will both be off.

It is very easy to lead completely separate lives when one of you is a pilot, so you do need to make sure that you don't just drift along not really seeing each other and then 5 years down the line realise that you don't really know each other any more.

[The Little Prince]

It was exactly five years the first time around AG, you make some good points there, pity all partners don't (didn't) see it like that.

[5150]

Gp's, Surgeons, AME's and the like will now have to undergo a form of 'base-check' in the future.

This has come about due to the antics of Dr. Harold Shipman.

To give me two-pence for the thread;

I was brought up by a long-haul family. My Dad was away from home for half of the year. My parents then divorced when I was eight - my Dad was an alcoholic and my mum had an affair. My Dad remarried about ten years later but that was on the rocks four years later. After 25 years of long haul he eventually took his own life ten years ago. (Sorry for all the numbers!)

Other 'long-haul' family friends I have known have had their marriages end in divorce, separation or had an affair somewhere along the way. If that hasn't happened, they have been completely put off flying - complain about constantly living out of a suitcase, large time differences, back-to-back flights and so on.

I'm sure, as Capt. Airclues points out, there are many examples of where this isn't the case, but a lot of people I meet who think that long-haul is a bed of roses are sadly mistaken, and are in need of education regarding the life you lead as long haul crew.

[airing cupboard]

Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone. Some inspiring, some altogether more worrying!

There's no doubt it will be hard. We've been through tough times before, had huge raging rows, but still managed to come out of them to tell the tale (and that was when I was working in a regular 9-5 in Sainsbury's). I guess the good thing, (although some may beg to differ) is that we knew each other before I started flying professionally. I am determined to make it work, but I would imagine almost every person who has ever married has expressed similar sentiments at the time.

Anyway, keep the information and experiences coming. They're all very useful. I fly shorthaul by the way, which means in my company being away from base on average 8 nights a month.

Thanks again!

[Spartacan]

Well, we all have our take on this issue.

I think airline pilots have two issues to deal with in married life.

First, is their own nature. The job requires that you can remain emotionally detached from your own situation in order to make safe decisions. Imagine the scenario where your family are on a board and you are hi-jacked for example. Your duty is to look after the interests of the majority never mind your own personal concerns. Also, the lifestyle requires you to detach yourself from family circumstances at any time of the day or night at your employers whim. What your family want (or need) will have to come second.

I think the job can make it difficult for a lot of individuals to form close, emotional, relationships.

Second, of course, is the wretched lifestyle. I think the problem is not so much the going away - it is what you are like when you get back after a trip. I asked my wife about this point. She feels that women need to off load, be listened to and feel included when a husband returns from a trip. Often, due to jet lag, tiredness, stress and fatigue, the pilot can be very 'off message' for a day or too.. The relationship can suffer at this point. Then is time to go away again . . .

I pulled out of the airline industry when we started a family. It took a couple of years to get established in a new direction. We are poorer but I now have the time with family that is needed to keep everyone happy.

My position on the whole issue? If you want to go airline flying then consider it a short career to be completed by your mid thirties. Plan a second career and don't look back.

[Dumpvalve]

Any woman who is married to an airline pilot knows, you have to be a pretty strong, secure (in yourself) and independant person. It's Murphy's Law, when hubby is away, the kids will get sick, the electrical appliances will break, the car will play up. You have to be prepared to play the role of mom and dad at times, going to school concerts and sports days alone. You can't afford to start getting bitter and resenting the fact that he is going to far off exotic places, at the end of the day, it is his job and he gets paid for doing it. The pros defnitely outweight the cons

I wouldn't change one aspect of our marriage, when he is away, I get a chance to catch up with friends, sports and hobbies, and when he is at home, we love our time together, we never run out of things to chat and laugh about, we try to go out at least once a week for dinner or a movie. Because of the job he has, we are able to fly often with him to the most amazing countries, and do so on a regular basis. Would I like him be home more often, defnitely, but this is his career and I knew it when we married.

I wouldn't swop my husband, life or marriage for all the tea in China, and I know he feels the same.

I hope that answers your question, airline marriages can work, depending on the two people involved - and how serious they are in wanting it to work.

[Scottie]

One old Skipper once told me if you ever get tempted:

"w :mad:k w:mad:k money in the bank!"

;) :p :}

[p.savage]

Dumpvalve- I think thats fantastic that you are so supportive of your husband and his chosen profession. Brilliant. He's a very lucky fellow.

P|S|

[Chimbu chuckles]

Yes good on you dumpvalve.

Has anyone considered the fact that high divorce rates may be more to do with the fact that, in evolutionary terms, males and females are not actually built for life long manogamy?

What religon/society has foisted on us in the last few hundred years is a different thing entirely...that being a control mechanism.

Only in relatively recent times have various social factors, education, birth control, social acceptance etc, made it feesible for females to leave their spouses relatively painlessly. It's not so long, perhaps 40-50 yrs, since a unmarried women's potential lifestyle was VERY limited indeed.

My wife left for another pilot so I can hardly blame AIDS for the marriage ending. I was a bush pilot in those days so was home every night. We had a native helper around the house so she was not overworked at home and had a good job as a teacher.

The marriage ended because she, unilaterally, decided that she was not 'in love' with me anymore...and therefore she could bone anyone she wanted too...while I was home being an effectively single Dad to our, then 4 year old, daughter.

Now I'm an airline pilot recently forced by circumstance into long haul. I'm still a single Dad to my now 15 year old and with the help of a full time amah it works pretty well. My daughter is a remarkably well adjusted, mature, very funny, and sometimes very typical teenager. We have a great time together and I feel a lucky man indeed.

I do occasionally wonder if I'm lonely...then I get laid somewhere and that feeling that I'm 'missing' something goes away. ;)

Girlfriends? Yes I've had several over the last 11 years. Perhaps there might be one or two left in me in the future however I'm 42 now and all the women I seem to meet want marriage and children asap.

Chuck.

Editted for the ;)

[BANANASBANANAS]

Hi Digitalis,

The point I was trying (apparently not very clearly) to make is that if a surgeon is operating on a sick patient and he screws up, his patient can die, if the pilots are presented with a sick aeroplane at zero notice (engine fire etc) and screw up, its 100s of lives at a time. Different contexts I grant you, but the same levels of responsibility.

We have enough pressure from beancounters trying to devalue our jobs without doing it for them.

[Chimbu chuckles]

Bananasetc....I think when we cope with a life threatening emergency (perhaps once in a career, twice if you're blessed;) ) we are only saving one life...our own, the rest being a nice bonus as if we arrive in one piece there's a better than even chance the pax do too.

That's how I look at it anyway.

Chuck.

[BANANASBANANAS]

Point taken, but we get paid to keep the operation safe. That means using our professional skills every day. If those professional skills let us down, then it wouldn't be the first time a perfectly serviceable aircraft was flown into the ground.

The analogy would be a surgeon performing a career of "routine" operations and then having to deal with a patient arresting or other unexpected event. Its "only" the patients life at stake as well, not the surgeons and the rest of the ward.

Incidentally, I fly on a fleet of 8 long haul aircraft and in the last 2 months we have had 2 in flight shut downs (B767) and a pax evac (separate incident).

Perhaps not the best example, but (without getting "precious" about it), I hope it makes the point.

We train hard, initially at our own expense to get where we are. Arrogance is always way out of order but a little pride in our contribution to the safe operation of a lifetime of flying pax around the world is imho well deserved.

Safe flying everyone

[Chimbu chuckles]

We're in the same fleet Bananas:}

Chuckles

[BANANASBANANAS]

The thought had crossed my mind too!