how have you been shown a bad WX circuit?

[fudgy2000]

how have you been shown a bad WX circuit???

climb to 600 aal, sweeping climb onto downwind-2 stages??

[Evo]

yes... and lots of fun they are too :)

[Another St Ivian]

Yep, have been shown them and practice them regularly. Used them in anger a couple of times too.

ASI

[flyingwelshman]

Hi,

Yes - certainly have. Why do you ask? Is it not on the PPL syalabus?

In anger? Why would you do that?

FW

[Another St Ivian]

I haven't used them in anger in the literal sense!
Used in anger, as in when the wx really was bad rather than just for practice.

ASI

[FlyFreeWbe]

@ ASI, I see you're from cambridge..does that mean you learned to fly @ Marshalls Aerodrome?
Yea my first bad Wx circuit with my FI was fun. Did a straight in on Runway 05 grass stopped descent @ c.10ft :ooh: then climbed back up to about 5-600'. He didn't see the three helicopters hovering close by the runway and when he did he all but screamed like a girl (sorry ladies) and grabbed at the controls. I was coping well though methinks..

I think it's on the syllabus too. Its actually quite helpful if you get stuck out there under a descending cloud layer.

FFW

[FNG]

Certainly was shown them: both pretendy ones and real ones during the course, and had to do a real one on my first ever PPL trip with a passenger (what this tells you about my judgment in getting airborne that day you can deduce for yourselves) . On my revalidation check ride the other week my cheerful instructor said that he'd put his hands over my eyes if I went a whisker above 600 feet whilst we did a pretendy clag circuit. I did, he did, and the point was well made, although of course it's easier in real life if there's actual cloud in your hair.

PS: fudgy, bear in mind that if forced into doing a real one, you may not be doing the climb stage, but may be joining the circuit at low level and flying a tight downwind, with perhaps a constant aspect continuous turn to final.

[IO540]

I think anybody who thinks a low level circuit is easy should try doing it under the conditions where one might actually have to do one, e.g. 3km visibility in heavy rain, turbulence, and just below an 800ft cloudbase, tops at 10000ft (or no instrument/IMC rating) with 1500ft terrain nearby, and the icing level at 1000ft :O

[FNG]

Been there, done that, ate the chocolates, got the t-shirt, IO. I'm not saying it's easy, but it is perversely enjoyable and satisfying precisely because it requires maximum focus. Risk does so concentrate the mind, don't you find?

[dublinpilot]

Nope, never shown.

[Another St Ivian]

FlyFreeWbe; Private Msg'd you.

ASI

[S-Works]

I thought a ad weather circuit was part of the PPL and I certainly recall it being part of my skills test.

[fudgy2000]

at what part do you lower 2 stages of flap??

[Andy_R]

500'

...... or as your height dictates!

My instructor did mention that some students only manage low level circuits on their precautionary landing lesson as controlled aerodromes are sometimes reluctant to let you do them. We were lucky this week in that we were the only ones around, and even then we had to join crosswind for another runway before being given permission from ATC to carry out 3 touch and go's.

Worth doing. Feel it was a very valuable lesson.

[FlyingForFun]

Fudgy,

Please don't try this out yourself. Get your instructor to show you. Although the descriptions that you've read in this thread are pretty accurate, I don't like the idea of a student trying out a low-level manoeuvre without appropriate guidance from an instructor.....

FFF
--------------

[AerBabe]

Shown them during my PPL and first lesson of tailwheel conversion was done in low cloud. That really made things busy!

Especially interesting was having to orbit at not many hundred feet on final to let a couple of gliders land. :uhoh:

[pulse1]

I was not taught them, nor tested on them second time around. First time round I did them in a Tiger Moth and hated approaching at 45 kts with power and the nose in the air - hard to check descent rate and when to chop the power, no flare needed. I never had the confidence to do that solo after my GFT.

I did my GFT on a frosty morning and, when I taxied back to take off again, I could see where the tail skid had touched down - impressively close to the downwind hedge!!!

[IO540]

FNG

Risk does so concentrate the mind, don't you find?

No, I prefer to eliminate risk as far as possible. And minimise pilot workload while I am at it; the two are closely related.

[FNG]

Perhaps these are different modes of expressing the same concept. Controlling and managing risk is to me one of the attractions of flying, as with other sports which entail dangers more considerable than tennis elbow. I read an article about risk sports the other days which suggested than those who are by character disposed to participate in such sports are no more tolerant of danger and risk than those who are not so disposed, but seek to mimimise risk by improving their skills.

[FlyFreeWbe]

Thanks ASI, just realised you put Cambridgeshire (I must learn to read), just like me. Course I don't live anywhere near Cambridge..

To be honest, I vaguely remember a certain 'somebody' going out on his orientation exercises and doing a few extreme maneuvers just to see what the aircraft would do :E Needless to say, instructors weren't happy when I told them my findings. (Don't worry FFF, I'd already done the training and they did say I could practice emergencies.. :p ) I'm sure I'm not the only one?? Although nowadays that 'somebody' is a lot more sensible.

FFW

[TangoZulu]

500ft or so

80kts

2 stages of flap in PA-28

Not outside the airfield boundary to make sure you keep the runway in sight at all times having broken out of cloud (did them all the time during the IMC course - down the ILS to 500ft then bad Wx cct to land)

Never seems to be a problem to do them at Bournemouth

TZ

[QDMQDMQDM]

500 feet is the average circuit height at farm strips, with typically a racetrack pattern. Low level, bad weather circuit is 1-200 feet, about 60-120 seconds wheels rolling to wheels stopped.

QDM

[shortstripper]

Not really the same thing ... but I can't help mentioning one of my favourite flights ever ... but it only lasted about four minutes (if that) :p

I wanted to move the VP2 from a field on one side of the farm to one on the other....

Took off, hopped over the hedge, dropped down a (very) small incline, climbed to clear some trees and landed ... great fun! :E

SS

[millermilla]

I done bad weather circuits as part on my training and flew an oval circuit at 600ft. It was one of those exercises that was quite enjoyable to be practicing but as for doing it for real....NO THANKS!
I also done an engine failure from the overhead at 2000ft landing on the runway. Is this part of the PPL sylabus to actualy land from a simulated engine failure? The landing was after practicing PFL's and without me knowing in the overhead the instructor chopped the throttle.


Best Regards


Keith

[Thirty06]

I was shown the oval circuit at 600ft, pretty much inside the fence.

Then I went to an airfield where the circuit height is 600ft and was expected to fly a regular rectangle. I think their low level circuit is for hedge trimming purposes.

Landing from a PFL, I reckon it's essential. I was shown an overhead join with a quick pulling of the throttles on the way down so that I had to judge the glide in. Made it. Another student was apparently on the downwind leg when the instructor chopped the throttles and said 'Land it'.

In the GFT the prescence of other aircraft means that you will only get to demonstrate the glide approach. You get to nominate where the engine goes off and then land. My examiner nominated a set of marks on the runway and I had to reach them, a jolly finale to a GFT.

[IO540]

QDM

The difference there is that the planes tend to be a lot slower anyway. It's a lot easier to fly a tight circuit at 50kt than at 110kt.

[Flyin'Dutch']

Low level, bad weather circuit is 1-200 feet, about 60-120 seconds wheels rolling to wheels stopped.

Show off!

;)

FD