The Mystery Aeroplane Quiz With No Pictures

[BEagle]

Morning!

Yes!!

[Tim Inder]

Are there more than two? (engines)

[BEagle]

Nope - just the two......

[Tim Inder]

Was it an experimental design, or did it go into production?

[Silas Blattner]

Plain old Canberra and its bro the B-57 ?.

[BEagle]

Experimental designs.

[Aerohack]

Supermarine 508?

[BEagle]

Yes indeedy! Supermarine 508 and its twin, the Supermarine 529. Both had butterfly tails - the design was soon dropped though!

[Aerohack]

Ok, here's mine, but out for much of this afternoon, so don't all rush!

My first name will give you lift. For my second, take a shot at the Lancaster's successor.

[Airbedane]

Shackleton.......................????

[BEagle]

Very good!

Gives you lift = Wing

Take a shot at the Lancaster's successor (Lincoln) = Gun used by Booth to kill Abraham Lincoln = Derringer


The great little Wing Derringer! Neatest little twin piston ever designed and I want one for Christmas please!

Here's some piccies of the little lovely: http://www.flightresearch.com/Aircraft/Derringer.htm

[Airbedane]

Blimy BEags, you're way out of my league, I didn't even get the successor to the Lancaster correct - (thinks: Best I stick to flying 'em!')

[BEagle]

Which you do very well indeed! By the way, have you filled out the little forms I sent your way yet, mate? If so, any reply from London?


OK, my turn.

I shook, shuddered and scared all who watched, but simply couldn't get off the ground!

[Aerohack]

Well, BEags, I think I'll just retire gracefully. Nailed with a single shot (much like Lincoln, indeed).

[Mr_Grubby]

Were you American and made of wood ?

Clint.

[BEagle]

Nope - nor did I fly off water (once only!).

...actually, I wasn't really an aircraft at all. Because I didn't manage to get airborne despite trying - although I was intended to!

[treadigraph]

Blimey, bet you boys do the T'graph Cryptic before your eggs are soft boiled...

And I thought I'd be in with the Accountant until I turned to the next page...

Bad day, need a serious beer - were you a helicopter?

[Mr_Grubby]

Were you ever on Derwent Water ?

Clint.

[BEagle]

I was supposed to be a helicopter.......

Never on Derwent Water, sorry. But if you were thinking of Donald Campbell's Bluebird, he was killed on Coniston Water, not Derwent Water. His remains were only found in 2001, 34 years after the accident.....and Bluebird was never intended to fly.

[Aerohack]

Not the Rotorcraft Grasshopper, were you? Can’t recall if that actually flew or not.

[Mr_Grubby]

Sorry BEagle,
Completely off track there.

Clint.

[BEagle]

Nope - not the Rotorcraft Grashopper, sorry!

[Aerohack]

The underpowered, ground-borne Hunting Percival P.74 then?

[BEagle]

Aerohack - absolutely correct! Despite running flat-out with maximum upness selected, it sat there like a fat pig and refused to budge!

You have the helm!

[treadigraph]

Shouldn't that be the collective? Or perhaps the cyclic.... I'm going to have to look the P-74 up...!

Darn it chaps... it's like Wimbledon. Right, I'm off for my beer and I promise I won't post under the influence! Do yer worst Aerohack!

[Aerohack]

Well, collect your thoughts and cycle on back, Treadders. Here goes:

Now almost extinct, I was born into a very large and still expanding family, but was always the odd one out.

[sycamore]

French......?
jet.............?
twin.........?
1960`s....?

[Aerohack]

Syc:
No
No
No
50s/early 60s

[Tim Inder]

Are you perchance British?

[Airbedane]

Westlands.....................?

[LowNSlow]

Ahoy there Aerohack be ye a Guppy?

[BEagle]

Well, although Delphinapterus leucas isn't close to extinction as far as I know, you could perhaps be the A300-600ST 'Beluga' transport aircraft?

Very busy rushing back and forth between Finkenwerder and Toulouse!

[Airbedane]

Not if it's 50's to 60's BEages. I was thinking of Westlands going from fixed wing to helo, but I'm probably off the mark, as always.

Where's he gone?

[treadigraph]

Absolute shot in the dark - you are not that Cessna helicopter thingy perchance? Can't remember its name, but, if I recall aright, it appeared around the 1960 mark... Certainly an odd one out!

Edited - done some googling... the Cessna CH-1 (YH-41). Doesn't seem to mention the name - Skyhook keeps whizzing round me brain - getting confused with Skyhawk?

I won't post the link to the site as it is a commercial one.

[BEagle]

Hmm - missed that bit!

The "...was born into a very large and still expanding family.." bit had me thinking of Airbus, as they always refer to aircraft 'families' and are expanding all the time. Neither of the antecedents, VFW-614 or Dassault Mercure fit the bill as they weren't around in the '50s. So shall have to think again:

Were you European?

[Aerohack]

Very accurate shot in the dark, Treadders. Cessna CH-1 Skyhook (aka YH-41 Seneca in military guise) it was. The only helicopter Cessna ever built (and which some folk at Wichita deny they ever did). Just one known survivor, at the Museum of Army Flying at Fort Rucker, AL. Cessna bought back all the commercial Skyhook models and bulldozed them into a big hole. Your call.

[treadigraph]

Ah, I thought there was a Native American name in there somewhere...

Right: fairly easy one...

A jewel from the east, I now belong in a more Aristocratic family

[Aerohack]

Diamond 1A - Beechjet 400/400A - Hawker 400XP - whatever they want to call it next?

[treadigraph]

No fooling you is there? I really must try to be more subtle...!

0

[Aerohack]

Well, here's an easy one.

Calm Air? Au contraire, but Norman smoothed my progress.

[Tim Inder]

Druine Turbulent? -but the Rollason version, first flown by Norman Jones

[treadigraph]

What he said...

[Aerohack]

'Twas it. Thought you'd have been first in there, Treadders!

[treadigraph]

Hate to say this (Airgage will have guessed - saw you on line mate!) but I was in the Dog and Bull enjoying The Great Cod Almighty (more like Good Cod, is that all) and a pint!

Tim Inder - your move...

[Tim Inder]

Blimey, I actually beat Beagle and Treadders!- In the pub indeed!, have you not heard of laptops and Wi-Fi? :)
Here you go then...
I was destined for testing times, but was rather prone to control difficulties.

[Aerohack]

Do you still exist?

[Tim Inder]

Indeed I do.

Imagine this text isn't really here - it's just filling space

[Aerohack]

Prone Pilot Meteor F.8?

[Tim Inder]

Short and sweet!
I've had it on my mind for a while now, as a possible answer to one of Beagle's. Glad I've got it out of my system!

Over to you...

[Aerohack]

I had a stormy birth, then moved North and became flightless.

[treadigraph]

We should have bets on this - I'll name that plane in two...

Ohhhh, I am going ot have to think about this one while I look for the other half of my cod... by which time one of you other blighters will have guessed it!

[Tim Inder]

Wouldn't be the Gossamer Penguin would it?

[Aerohack]

No, but you're warm in one respect.

[BEagle]

Percival Petrel?

[Aerohack]

No, BEags. Right era, wrong birthplace.

[Airbedane]

Gossamer Albatros then?

[Aerohack]

No. Another clue that should be a give-away. In the land of my birth I had younger, much more aggressive brothers. Emil was one of them.

[Airbedane]

Bf108 Taifun...............?

[Bre901]

... a.k.a. Nord N.1000 "Pingouin" :ok:

[Aerohack]

Equal points to Airbedane and Bre901! Bf 108 Taifun (Typhoon), production of which was transferred to Occupied France with SNCA du Nord (hence 'North'), where it became the 'Pingouin' (Penguin, flightless bird).

[Airbedane]

Here's a quick one (?) for a Friday night.......

Two in authority.

[Silas Blattner]

Twin Commander ?.

[Airbedane]

Nope.........................................!

Or should I have said: "Non, Monsieur."

[sycamore]

British...?
French...?
NAmerican..?
Jet...?
Multi...?
40-50`s
50-60`s
later...?

[Airbedane]

Hi Syc -

Too many questions - I can answer Yes (Oui) to five of them and No (Non) to all eight!

[LowNSlow]

Are you a Flamant?

[Airbedane]

No, we are not (Non, nous ne sommes pas)

[BEagle]

Bonjour, Airbedane.

Tu es francais avec deux moteurs avec helices, n'est ce pas?

(Frog piston twin)

[Airbedane]

Ah, Bonjour BEags. T'es presque la. L'un d'entre nous est Francais avec deux moteurs.

Ah, 'Ello BEags. You're almost there. One of us is French with two motors.

[BEagle]

Fouga Magister, peut etre?

[Airbedane]

Tres bien fait!

I thought it'd be a quicky - I had the pleasure of flying an airtest in Hairyplane's Maggie yesterday, and having flown the Fouga as well, it was worth a try. They both have superb control harmonisation, much like the Chipmunk, but both suffer from severe pitch down with yaw. The Fouga CM170 Magister has crashed several times following inadvertent inverted spin of a botched roll-off-top. And the Miles Magister killed several students when they attempted to kick off a side slip in a similar manner to that they were used to on a Tiger, only to forget the back stick they were holding and flick roll into the ground.

\Ma*gis"ter\, n. Master; sir; -- a title of the Middle Ages, given to a person in authority, or to one having a license from a university to teach philosophy and the liberal arts.

I'm off to get a paper now, catch you later.

A

[LowNSlow]

Let me slip a quicky in chaps.. ooh er missus

I sound like I was built on a different continent

[BEagle]

Breguet Sahara?

[LowNSlow]

Beags wrong real nationality but correct implied nationality

[BEagle]

Would you be an animal?

[LowNSlow]

No I'm not a mutli-cellular being I'm afraid.

A clue as I'm off soon. My name reflects my environment and most of the name of a Saharan country ;)

and another: I'm a trimotor

[BEagle]

Were you a seaplane/flying boat?

[LowNSlow]

Nope, 'conventional' taildragger type.

[BEagle]

Well that rules out 727, both varieties of Trident, the Tu154 and that Yak 40....

Were you Dutch?

[LowNSlow]

Nope, British, pre-WW2 and built as a proof-of-concept for Imperial Airways I think.

[BEagle]

Well, bug.gered if I know. Neither the various AW, DH or other aircraft - not even the HP43 (no, not the 42) nor anything else I know of fits the bill.....

[Airbedane]

I'm with you on that one BEags - I've just spent an hour or so in Putnams various and nothing I can find has a name similar to a Saharian country.

I've just had a look at a list of Imperial Airways aircraft, (http://www.imperial-airways.com/Aircraft_page_1.html) and I can find nothing that fits the clues there, either........

LNS: Is the maker amongst the better known (like Shorts or Avro), or is it lesser known (such as Reid and Sigrist)?

[seacue]

Italian, I presume. But which? They stuck with trimotors long after most others.

[BEagle]

Quote: "Nope, British, pre-WW2 and built as a proof-of-concept for Imperial Airways I think."

Not likely to be Italian then..............

[seacue]

Oops, L&S's messages have been so few, I got confused... duh duh duh

[LowNSlow]

Airbedane very small company. I'd never heard of them until I tripped over this little beaty while Googling one day!

OK, here's a bigger clue:

monoplane, trousered undercarriage, 4 seater, 'scale model' for route trials for Imperial Airways.

and another one:

I sound similar to one of the Nile countries

PS Sorry about the lack of replies, I'm 4 hours ahead of you guys!

[Airbedane]

Thanks LNS, I'm off to work now, so if it's not guessed by this evening, I'll have a go then.

A

[BEagle]

Enjoy your day.

You are the Helmy Aerogypt! Not much info available, but here's a piccie:

http://www.jaapteeuwen.speedlinq.nl/pictures/gallery/helmy%20aerogypt.jpg.htm

[LowNSlow]

Airbedane looks like Beagle has pipped you to the post. I am indeed the Helmy Aerogypt. :ok: :ok: As far as I can tell the site that BEags mentions is the only one with pics of the Aerogypt. What an odd little aeroplane with an even odder name!

[BEagle]

OK - my turn.

Lookin' ferr owt'......?

[Airbedane]

Yorkshire speak?

Slingsby...................?

[BEagle]

Nay, lad!







;)

[Airbedane]

Nay lad Slingsby, or

Nay Lad York Shire?

[BEagle]

Both, tha' knows........

[Bre901]

Scottish Aviation Twin Pioneer ?

[BEagle]

Nope - too many engines and fins!

[Bre901]

Scottish Aviation Prestwick Pioneer then ?

[BEagle]

Nope! Right number of engines and fins though!

[Bre901]

Arrre you at least Scottish ?

[BEagle]

One is most certainly not!

[sycamore]

Civilian ?

Light blue...?
Dark blue....?
Pre- WW2?
Still about....?

[BEagle]

Intended for the military.

Neither dark nor light.

Not pre-WW2

Yes, but I don't think any are airworthy.

[sycamore]

Edgar Percival E P 9 Prospector,,, 2 went to Pongos.

[BEagle]

Correcto!!

Capt Percival originally designed it, but 't aerroplane werr laterr known as 't Lancarshirre Airrcraft Company Prospector, tha' knows!

Here's a piccie: http://www.sangbe.uku.co.uk/SANArchive/San01/April/April01p4.htm

You have control!

[LowNSlow]

Wow, 615 posts in 21 days !!!

[sycamore]

Stealthy I wasn`t, but flattered to have such a name,
I also had a top bunk for crew rest, and the first to have an APU................? So early as well...

[LowNSlow]

You wouldn't have been the early mainstay of the Kipper fleet, the Sunderland perchance?

[sycamore]

No, about 25 yrs before that!

[LowNSlow]

Are you G-22 Ilya Mourometz designed by Igor Sikorsky?

[sycamore]

Sorry,been out all afternoon....
LNS..No , I was Brit..

later edit... got to go again.Feel free to continue.......

[Bre901]

the Sunderland's first flight being 1937, do you really mean 1912 ?

[sycamore]

Bre, nearer 1916/7 from what I can find........

[Tim Inder]

In an effort to get things moving again...
Are you equipped to land and take off from water?

[sycamore]

Not a water-babe.....,only 1 a/c completed, if that`s a help.

[Bre901]

"heavy" bomber per chance ?

[sycamore]

Actually, more of a heavy night-fighter!!( No, BEags, not like the ones in Dakar !!).

Heavy(no pun) hint, My designer was thrown out of the other" other place"", later.

[BEagle]

Ahh - Dakar! Out of the hotel, turn right then run the gauntlet of a whole host of amiable but roguish local chums trying their luck on blagging a few blats from the Ascoteers, then down to the point and hang a left to the excellent restaurant for garlic-and-olive oil fried emperor prawns (too big to be called 'king' prawns!) and a bottle or few of white wine. Wonderful!

Oh well, back to the thread - WTF are you? Not a Nighthawk or Nightjar as the clues aren't right. A Spirit of some sort?

[sycamore]

Half right, but which one?


Edited later-going to finish off some red, answers t.morrow, but hhyphenated might help !.....

[BEagle]

Supermarine PB.31E Night Hawk! Hideously ugly looking brute of a quadruplane - but yes, it had a bunk for an off-duty member and even a 5hp APU! But an hour to climb to 10000ft? Even Airbedane's Jags were quicker than that!

Some info here:

http://worldatwar.net/chandelle/v4/v4n1-2/ww1nite.html


Righty ho. My turn now:

I wasn't made of wood, although you might have thought so. But I had an unusual aspect.....

[sycamore]

Well done BEags... quite a good site that.
I was using as a reference that it was actually the Pemberton-Billing Nighthawk...The company later became Supermarine.

P-B was an MP and was thrown out of the Commons in `17 for creating an uproar about Defence issues, lack of, at the time and nearly causing a fall for Parliament. Seems like the sort of chap we should have around now !!!!!!!!!

[Bre901]

Beagle

were you another WWI aircraft ?

About the Nighthawk some quote I took from the site you mentionned :
"It is however notable that one of the design team was none other than R.J. Mitchell, the designer of the Spitfire"
People learn, don't they ?

[BEagle]

Pemberton-Billing? Surely no-one could really have had a name like that? A bit like Mr Cholmondely-Walker from Harry Enfield....


Nope, I was later than WW1!

[Bre901]

Multi-engine ?
This thread becoming a bit anemic, dare I ask some more questions ?
Brit ?
WWII ?

[LowNSlow]

What a horror that Night Hawk is! It looks like something from Wacky Races. :oh:

You aren't a Horten flying wing glider Beags?

[BEagle]

Not brit
Not WW2
Not a Horten wing

...but I am multi-engined!

[Bre901]

are you from the USofA ?

[BEagle]

Non..............!!

[Airbedane]

French, then, and did you have a tail or foreplane?

PS, and Yes, I did get to 10G in lees than an hour in a Jaguar, once, but I did it in 36 secs in a Harrier! :D :D :D

A

[BEagle]

French it is.

I do have a tail, not a fores.....foreplay.....foreplane!

36 sec.....to 10K! That must have been one heck of a ride!

[Silas Blattner]

Hurel Dubois HD .....pick one .... 34.

A B-17 replacement non ?

[BEagle]

Oui, monsieur!

Hurel Dubois 34 (not made 'of wood' - du bois !)

Exceptionally high aspect ratio ('unusual aspect') - nicknamed by some the 'flying paper knife'.

Here are some piccies: http://membres.lycos.fr/neo2097/ampaa.htm and look under 'photos'.

[Bre901]

I'm quite frustrated, I should have thought of it.
I was even talking about the Meudon windtunnel and the HD plant accross the street, at lunch today :{ :{

Bien joué, Beagle and Silas Blattner :ok: :ok:

[Silas Blattner]

Apologies to Bre for that - why did they bother with a retractable nose wheel ? . French designs could win lots of awards - your 690 series are my faves and they obviously cornered the 30's ugliness subsidies - but enough. An easy one to start the hols.

I was Tigers first mate.

[Airbedane]

Bonjour a tous, surtout nos collegues francais - trais bien fait SB!

Tiger's first mate - a friend of the Tiger Moth would be too easy, but let's try it anyway -

Avro Tutor?

[BEagle]

Tiger's mate = Tigress?

Only one I can think of right now is the Lancair Tigress.....

[Silas Blattner]

Airbedane too lite. BEagle right country.

[Bre901]

Is it Tiger's or Tigers' ?

An obvious one would be the Curtiss P40
Probably too obvious though.

[Airbedane]

Are we talking 'Flying Tigers', then -

F104?

[Silas Blattner]

You're both much closer. Not jet. Not single. A bit of a wagon really.

[Boss Raptor]

Grumman/AA/GA Tiger now known as the 'new' Tiger...but is a single

www.tigeraircraft.com - or is 'tiger' a hint...

'Bobcat'...Cessna I think...piston twin 40's-50's

3rd guess...Grumman GA-7 Cougar...now that is a twin and a real wagon ;)

[BEagle]

Grumann Tigercat?

Not quite as yummy as an aaah - de Havilland Hornet, but a very pretty aeroplane.

[Silas Blattner]

No Mr Burns none of these and not even made of the same stuff as BEagle's sleek suggestions. (or the bamboo bomber).

[Aerohack]

First aircraft operated by the Flying Tiger Line, perchance? That was the stainless steel Budd Conestoga.

[Silas Blattner]

Thank goodness for that - I was thinking it was too cryptic and I'd have to use subterfuge to avoid being the one who stopped the game. Maybe they're all flying which is as it should be.

The C-93 it was.

http://www.flyingtigerline.org/images/ftl_budd_conestoga.jpg

http://www.microworks.net/pacific/aviation/rb_conestoga.htm

All yours - SB.

[Aerohack]

Well! I really didn't think that was it at all. Thanks, SB.

So:

We twins shared a common bloodline, but had different parents. One came from the Iron Works, the other lead the life of Riley.

[Silas Blattner]

I hope they're not Skyrockets otherwise it'll be my leg again.

[Aerohack]

See what you're thinking, but no.

[Bre901]

Best that I could think of, not exactly twins :
Grumman TBF/TBM Avenger (Iron works)
and Consolidated-Vultee TBU/TBY Seawolf (Mr Riley worked as riveter at Cunningham Aircraft in LA in "The Life of Riley").
I'll be away until Wednesday, so if this is it, I'll skip my turn until then. If not, good luck to all :ok:

[Aerohack]

Sorry Bre901, so it's still good luck to all.

[Aerohack]

Not tenuous at all, Speechless Two. You're almost there. Jack Riley's Twin Navion (later taken over by Temco) is correct, and was based on the North American (later Ryan) Navion. But there was another, and so the North American/Northrop Grumman connection is a red herring, and not the right 'Iron Works' in this context.

[Aerohack]

You've got it. They were actually two independent conversions, the Riley/Temco D16/D16A Twin Navion and Cameron Iron Works' Camair 480, both based on NA/Ryan Navions but somewhat different in execution.

[BEagle]

McDonnell XF-85 Goblin - trapeze launched from a B-29?

(But I think that it actually did make its design speed, so perhaps that's not the one.)

[BEagle]

Hey- is that the same as a hole in one?

OK - I could barely make half the speed I was supposed to!

[Aerohack]

Douglas X-3 Stiletto?

[BEagle]

Well done - another hole in one! Here's some info:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/x-3.htm

[Aerohack]

What an amazing looking aeroplane that X-3 was!

Here another, then:

Numerically I could have flown with the Black Arrows, but my complexion would have been better suited to the Red Arrows' predecessors.

[BEagle]

Why - you must be the Boulton-Paul P111.....

And here's a piccie:

http://www.blueangel.org.uk/BA/S/H/A1/5600.html


(Sorry - best I could find at short notice!)

The P111 was at Cranfield when I was doing my PPL back in the late '60s - along with a TSR2, CF100, SeaHawk and other interesting types!

[Aerohack]

Three holes-in-one in a row! Just as well we're not playing golf, or it'd be an expensive do at the 19th.

[BEagle]

I hold similar views about golf as Mark Twain and Jeremy Clarkson!

I sound as though I'm a train - and I went like one!

[Aerohack]

<<I hold similar views about golf as Mark Twain and Jeremy Clarkson!>>

Me too, which may explain why we are pretty much alone here this afternoon — everyone else watching the U.S. Masters on TV?

[Silas Blattner]

Silver Streak (Short) - though it went about as fast as a Bristol Fighter I suppose that was the contemporary standard for rail travel. - I'll get me coat.

[Airbedane]

Boy, you guys have been busy today!

BP P111 - my late father was a helper at the Midland Air Museum, the current home of the P111. Some years ago I had the pleasure of meeting Ben Gunn while looking at the P111 at Baginton during a family visit. It proved to be a facinating day!

Ugliest - I still think it's the BAe146, closely followed by the Buccaneer.

[BEagle]

Silver Streak? Hmm-good try. But I'm much faster than the train - and the Short Silver Streak, though pretty, was slower than the Silver Streak Zephyr train......

Hi Airbedane! No - ugliest ever has got to be the Blohm und Voss Bv141b....... But I grant you that the Bucc was no oil painting!

I guess you've been away on Easter egg duty??

[sycamore]

Vickers Type 950 Guardsvan -aka Merchantman ?

[BEagle]

Nope - not the 'Whispering Warehouse'!

Earlier....

[sycamore]

Single..?
jet......?
British...?
Steam..?
30-40`s

[BEagle]

Yes
No
Yes
Mostly
Almost

[Airbedane]

Had it not been British, I would have guessed the Grumman Mallard, but there was a class of locomotive called 'Bulldog', one of which was named 'Camel'.

Am I going in the right direction?

PS Didn't the Great Western operate where you spent your childhood years, BEags- http://www.greatwestern.org.uk/m_in_440_bulldog.htm

[BEagle]

Hi Airbedane! Yes - oi werrr Wesscoun'ry born. Me, that is, not the ac in question on this thread.

The railway spotters would squirm if they heard someone refer to 'Mallard' as a train - for 'twas a locomotive!

"I sound as though I'm a train - and I went like one!"

;)

[Airbedane]

Well, that's got both aircraft and 'train' spotters alienated - who's next!

The Wright Flyer ran on rails and it sounds a bit like a 'train', but then you wanted something British?

Pre, or post WW2?

[BEagle]

I hope I didn't alienate either train or aircraft spotters - that wasn't the intention! But referring to a locomotive a 'train' is to them, I understand, as offensive as someone describing an aeroplane to you or me as a 'plane'.....

The 'sound' is in my name, not my noise ;)! But I'm not the 'Westland 7.36 to Waterloo' or the 'Bristol 6:44 to Birmingham'

The ac was much faster than the train:D :D - and it was pre-WW2.

Edited to add - by 'sound', I mean that my name sounds like the name of a train, of course!

[sycamore]

Westland Wapiti......at50% cut-off, and regulator wide-open ...!

[BEagle]

Speechless Two - you have control!

The Gloster VI Golden Arrow it is! 2 of these racing seaplanes fitted with Napier Lion VIID engines were built for the 1929 Schneider contest; one of them established a world speed record of 336 mph on 9 Sep 29. The same year, the prestigious Golden Arrow Pullman railway service started from Victoria to Paris - it would leave London at 1100 and its colleague, the Fleche d'or would leave Paris at 1100. The Golden Arrow rail service was hauled by proper chuffing steam locomotives until 1961, then electrified. It was finally discontinued in 1972.

In addition to both the aircraft and the train, there was, of course, a 3rd Golden Arrow in 1929, Henry Segrave's very handsome car – also powered by a Napier Lion - which broke the world land speed record at 231 mph on Daytona Beach.

Quite a Golden Arrow year was 1929!

[Silas Blattner]

Boulton Paul Defiant ?. - via Dick Rutan.

[Silas Blattner]

In that case, with a giant clue for the clueless, are you a Vought F8 ?.

[Silas Blattner]

The variously named American Gyro/ Shelton Flying Wing. Crusader. Circus. ???. Dohhh that wasn't later than the Defiant.

[Aerohack]

Supermarine Type 322 S.24/37 'Dumbo'?

[Aerohack]

Easy one, this:

Idle? Not me! Up front I’m all a-quiver.

[treadigraph]

Ahhh, me favourite... or one of them...

Arrow Active!

'BVE used to fly over my house regularly when Lewis Benjamin/Tiger Club owned it...

Assuming I am right, I'm not too PPRuNe active meself at the moment for work and social reasons, so if someone else would oblige with the next clue...

(Incidently had a nice old bi-plane floating ethereally over my head a couple of years ago - no idea what it was until I read a copy of Aeroplane Monthly properly last night - the Spartan Arrow, now apparently down at Redhill. What a lovely aeroplane!)

[Aerohack]

Whoa! Treadders, the bank holiday obviously did you good!

I have that (rather ugly) extended fin fairing from the Active sitting in my garage, purchased at Old Warden for 50p when Des Penrose was restoring it to its original configuration. Of no use whatsoever, of course, but sufficient to know that many a skilled pilot sat just ahead of it, not least the late Neil Williams.

[Silas Blattner]

Aerohack - I think you have control by default - until Treadigraph returns from his break.

SB

[sycamore]

As it`s gone quiet...........

If I drink any more Mackeson I`ll turn into one of "Henry`s".........

[spitfire]

Could be anything built by the Stout Metal Aeroplane Company, including the Ford Tri-Motor.

[sycamore]

S2 and Spit, correct. The Stout 2-AT was designed by WB Stout as a s/e a/c , later to become the 3-AT with 3 engines, and later still there is controversy whether the Ford 4-AT was designed by Stout, but the company had been bought out by Ford, so highly likely..

[spekesoftly]

Are you one of a number of Airspeed aircraft that shared their names with automobiles?

Or could you be the Westland Limousine?

[BEagle]

Bristol (Bristol) Beaufighter, Fairey (VW) Fox, DH (Riley) Hornet, Hawker (Hillman) Hunter, Sepecat (Jaguar), Gloster (Jowett) Javelin, Hawker (Riley) Kestrel, Avro (Lincoln) Continental etc, Hawker Siddley (Aston Martin) Nimrod, Avro (Ford) Prefect, Sopwith (Humber) Snipe, Supermarine (Triumph) Spitfire, Chrysler (Vickers) Valiant, Handley-Page (Vauxhall) Victor, Vickers (Austin) Victoria...........??

Just a few RAF ones - there are lots of others!

[spekesoftly]

Aw Beags, I was resisting the 'name them all' technique! :p

Oh well, here's a few more:

Airspeed - Ambassador (Austin/Mahindra), Consul (Ford), Cambridge (Austin), Oxford (Morris).

Fairey Gordon (- Keeble) ..... bit tenuous ;)

Blackburn (Daimler) Dart, Armstrong Whitworth (Triumph) Ensign, HP (Triumph) Herald, Vickers (Standard) Vanguard, Bristol (Berkeley) Berkeley, Saro (Austin) Princess.

[Tim Inder]

Not forgetting the Supermarine (Reliant) Scimitar of course!
(No points for guessing which version's my daily drive!)

[spekesoftly]

Keeping with the automobile theme:

My (similarly sounding) namesake once made model racers.

[BEagle]

Aurora - but that doesn't exist, of course..........

[spekesoftly]

Not Aurora. Trains could also be a common theme.

[Aerohack]

<<Gawd - what have I started!>>

I know how you feel. I once started jotting down notes for a planned magazine article on aeroplanes and cars with common names. When I reached 300+ without any serious research I gave up.

[BEagle]

Fouga Zephyr
Ford Zephyr
Silver Streak Zephyr

A French aeroplane, a British car and an American train.......

[spekesoftly]

BEagle,

Nice one, but not what I had in mind.

My maker also made locomotives, and my (identically sounding) namesake, the models.


SP2,

Yes, to all 4 Qs.

[Silas Blattner]

English Electric Wren ?.

[spekesoftly]

Silas & SP2,

Correct. As well as making model trains, G.& R. Wrenn produced some 1/52nd scale model electric racing cars in the 1960s - Wrenn Formula 152.

[Silas Blattner]

Is this a well known participant or ........ ?

http://www.futurshox.net/viewer.php3?id=480

Think of me as a lightweight ATP.

[treadigraph]

Cor - is everybody thinking? I am, but it hasn't proved productive so far...

Monoplane?

[Woomera]

English Electric Wren?

:\

"I love PPRuNe"
(Added to make up the minimum number of characters!:})

[Silas Blattner]

Yes monoplane. ATP as in British Aerospace Advanced TurboProp.

The clue maybe lost on non Brits / Europeans, and the participant could be flying the picture - not part of the clue. - SB.

[spekesoftly]

Any connection with 80p? :p

[Silas Blattner]

No - its derogatory, though that has been inverted more recently.

[spekesoftly]

Ah! Something to do with Skoda?

[Silas Blattner]

Yes, I believe it was a disciplinary offence in either BA or Bae to refer to the ATP as a Skoda - maybe that's apocryphal. So what am I ?.

[Bre901]

LET L-410 Turbolet ?

[Silas Blattner]

No a bit earlier than that. And S/E.

[Bre901]

czech airplane ?

[Silas Blattner]

Yes a real live Skoda.

[treadigraph]

Meta-Sokol? That's a guess rather interpretation of all the clues!

[Silas Blattner]

Sorry that's not me either. Little more to give away except I'm sometimes hyphenated and I'm a lightweight fighter. - Must be my clues.

The MAQWNP stall warning system has now been activated. If no correct solution by12.00 Z. The answer will apppear and any non-incapacitated crew member may take control.

[Aerohack]

One of those beautiful Skoda-Kauba designs, perhaps? SK 257 was a real looker.

[Silas Blattner]

Yes. - I didn't think it was that difficult or esoteric and they were a an interesting series of designs. The 257 I am.

http://www.histaviation.com/Skoda-Kauba.html

SB.

[Aerohack]

Best looking Skoda ever? The parasol-wing fighter (D.1 was it, derived from a Dewoitine?) was also a handsome machine.

Quite unprepared for another try, but here goes:

I was double-double-barelled, and sawn-off, in a manner of speaking.

[BEagle]

Short Sperrin?

Sawn-off as in 'short'; 4 x RR Avon engines with each pair in an 'over and under' double-barrelled shotgun layout on each wing.

Here's a piccie: http://avia.russian.ee/air/england/short_sperrin.html

[Aerohack]

Like I said, quite unprepared...

Over to you BEAgs!

[BEagle]

Someone else please - I need to be off the air for a while!

[Bre901]

More than a day without someone picking up the gauntlet, so dare I ?
Anyone objects ?
Thanks gentlemen.

We were both too late to be successfull and suffered a similar fate.

[spekesoftly]

Miles M.52 and BAC TSR2?

[Bre901]

Sorry, no

Two different countries.

[LowNSlow]

Is one of you the Avro Arrow and the other the TSR2?

[Bre901]

No

Our sad fate led some of us to the same country (that is, a third one).

[Bre901]

Officer, I had no intentions to kill that thread, honest, promise. It just hit my keyboard by accident ;)

Mr LowNSlow, you were the starter of this very good thread, shall we wait some more days until Beagles returns (and solves my riddle in 1min.) or shall we pronounce it dead tonight :{

[treadigraph]

I'll attempt the kiss of life...

Were you 1960s?

[Bre901]

Thanks for that, may you and your offspring be blessed until the seventh generation:ok:

No Sir, earlier than that

[treadigraph]

A thousand Thank yous! But I'm afraid I've vowed to help lower the population - or at least not to increase it!

Errr.... oh...

1950s?

(Lengthy pause while I leave the office to go home via a duty visit to the maternal abode - good job she didn't take the same vow as me!)

[Bre901]

No Sir, earlier than that

I'm going out tonight, but I'll try and have a look at this thread before going to bed.

[treadigraph]

Good morning....

Dredging for it... Between the 1900s and 1950s...

No just joking, 1940s...

[Bre901]

Both our stories started a bit before that, and ended during WW2.

[treadigraph]

Are you both fighters?

[Bre901]

Yes Sir, we both are indeed.
(:mad: :* :yuk: 15 letters rule)

[BEagle]

:E

[treadigraph]

Is one of you the Seversky P-35?

[Bre901]

No Sir, both European

Hello Mr BEagle, nice to see you back. You are welcome to join if you whish.
Except if you already found out, in which case, just PM me.

[Stan Evil]

Maybe one UK one German?

How about MB-5 and Do-335?

[Bre901]

No, both pre-war designs.

[spitfire]

Me109 and Hurricane

[Bre901]

not exactly what I would call too late to be successfull and suffered a similar fate.

I have the feeling that this thread has been on life support for a couple of days.
If no one has found sunday night, I'll post the answers and we should let it just fade away ...

Last "free" clue :

We ended up on the side we were supposed to fight in the beginning.

[seacue]

Were they fighters?

Was one French, the other Italian?

[Bre901]

Fighters : yes (already answered that question some days ago)
French : yes
Italian : no

[treadigraph]

One of the Dewoitines? Ended up serving with the Swiss... guessing...

[Bre901]

Dewoitines : which one ?
The Swiss : what are you saying here ? :uhoh: :uhoh:
The Swiss were neutral, meaning they fought against no one, but made business with everyone.
As I am in a reasonably good mood, I shall not talk about refugees here :*

\'nother one (\'cause its Friday afternoon) :

we had different versions of the same engine

[treadigraph]

Got me on which one...

Swiss Air Force operated Dewoitines (of the variant I'm thinking of!), but not in combat presumably!

[Archimedes]

Mmmm.

Well, the Dewoitine D520 served with the Germans, Italians, Bulgarians and Romanians post-1940.

But if it is that one, the engine confuses me for answering the second one - which other country's fighter aircraft was too late to be a success and ended up fighting for the 'wrong' side and had an H-S 12 engine (or variant thereof)?

The only thing I can think of is the Avia B.534, and I'm not sure that fits the criteria. :confused:

[Bre901]

Dewoitine D520 : you got it right !!(and you mentioned the right country)

Avia B.534 : not quite, but that is a very very very close one, and probably matches the criteria too.
The one I am thinking of did see combat only very episodically, but it did.

Shoudn't be long now.

[Archimedes]

Is it the Avia B35/B135, then?

The 135 Served with the Bulgarians (not quite the originally intended users), and, I've discovered, also with the HS 12 engine. Learn something new every day!

[Bre901]

Eureka ! :ok: :ok:

We were indeed the Dewoitine 520 and the Avia B135.
Both were good planes, which were on par with the Me109, but the production of the Dewoitine was not in gear before late 1939 and the Czechs never fought :( :( .

Just a minor correction, the Bulgarians were indeed the intended users, the Bulgarian delegation first came to Czechoslovakia when it still existed (february 1939). The prototype was presented to the "Salon de l'aéronautique" in Brussels later that year, but at that time Czechoslovakia had become part of the Reich, hence the German markings. Bulgaria had ordered 12 planes, plus another batch of 50, but only the initial 12 ones were built.
As they never got the 20 mm cannon fitted, they served essentially as trainers.

Here are some links :
Dewoitine 520 (http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/Dewoitine%20D.520)
another one (text only) (http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_other/d520.html)
Looks like there is still one D520 flying (http://ajbs.com/les%20Avions%20Amis/Pages%20Avions%20Master.htm)

Avia B135 (in czech but w. pics) (http://airwar.valka.cz/muzeum/ostatni/avia_035/default.htm)
The Bulgarian Avias (w. pics) (http://www.tgplanes.com/planfile.asp?idplane=209)

This being said, please accept my apologies if I contributed to kill this thread. :ugh:

Archimedes, you have the floor, it is now up to you to decide if the show must go on, or if we let this old thread just fade away.

[BEagle]

Just don't make it too esoteric!

[Bre901]

BEagle

touché !

but I am afraid you are mixing up esoteric and exotic. ;)
Some of the British planes that passed throught this thread were quit esoteric for us continentals (I'm thinking of that ugly Supermarine WWI night fighter for instance)

[JDK]

Sorry to report that the flying D-520 crashed a good many years ago now (circa 1990(?)) killing the pilot. :ugh:

I was lucky enough to see it fly at La Ferte in 1988. There's been no plans to fly another, though the Musee de l'Air et l'Espace at Le Bourget has one on show and one in store, both good looking but (I think) missing some critical parts (I think they may have been 'robbed' to keep the flyer airworthy.)

One of W.W.II's great and overlooked fighters. The Vichy French used it, and then the Free French after 1944 (equivalent therefore to a Mk.1 Hurricane or Spitfire in service then if you will) and I think scored some kills with them. Any further light by someone better informed?

Cheers
James

[Bre901]

JDK

I did some more searches.
The accident took place on july 16th, 1986 at Vannes-Meucon (in Britany). The pilot, Cdr Christian Bove was killed in the accident.

Some more pics (La Ferté Alais 1985 (http://users.hrnet.fr/~morlock/131/d520.htm))

A rather complete operational story is available on the second link of my previous post.

Cheers.