View Full Version : The Mystery Aeroplane Quiz With No Pictures

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24th Mar 2004, 06:13
VF-101D: Well done again BEages. I have to confess, I asked a mate who came up with the EJ101 as a German V/STOL experimental project. I couldn't find references to it anywhere, but I thought it worth a try.......My own V/STOL archive described the VJ-101D as a five-lift and one-thrust engined machine, which is why I didn't get there myself!

So two guessed correctly (or nearly so) and I still haven't had a go in the chair!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh well, plus ca change. Bien-venue au thread Syc, by the way.

I don't have a guess for this one yet, so I'll leave it at that for a while.


24th Mar 2004, 08:24
North American P51D Mustang ?
more dependable = Merlin
3 mins to heaven = widowmaker

24th Mar 2004, 08:32

Douglas F4D-1 Skyray.
Al: Alexander Lippisch, whose captured data on tailless design played a part in early design studies and wind tunnel tests at Cal Tech.
Ed: Ed Heinemann, who headed the design team.
'Girlie' power: Prototypes had 7,400 lb st Westinghouse J40s; production had P & W J57s, 10, 200 lb st dry, 16,000 lb st with afterburner.
'Take you to Heaven in three minutes': ROC 18,300 ft/min. One USMC pilot reached 49,215 ft in 2:35.
Happy Henry: Nickname was 'Ford' (F4D).

So, if that's correct, Treadders got there first. (And thanks for the Lefty Gardner CD, T!)

Tim Inder
24th Mar 2004, 08:33
I think you are the Douglas F4D Skyray.
'Al' being Alexander Lippisch, who experimented with deltas
'Ed' Ed Heinemann
Don't know about heaven in 3 mins, but 40k' in 2?
Girlie engine was the J-40?
Nicknamed the 'Ford' (F4D)
Don't ge the 'snappy' bit though

24th Mar 2004, 10:50
I reckon the girlie engine must be the Allison, so the P-51 gets my vote..........................Come on Syc, give us the answer........................................have you gone to sleep on us - I thought it was only me who stacked early????

Tim Inder
24th Mar 2004, 11:11
Yup, that fits! What about the Al and Ed bits though?
'course, the p5 was named Mustang, so that's the Ford connection,
Go on Sycamore, I need to get some work done today!

24th Mar 2004, 11:19
Yes, Treadders has it, the F4D Skyray..
Sorry to keep you all in suspenders, but had to go shopping........:ok:

After a pause, the Dependable bit is in all P&W`s coat of arms, and the snappy just rhymed with happy, although when operating Navy-style, everything is darn` snappy!!

24th Mar 2004, 12:22
(Nips back to edit original post!)

I was right with F4D, slightly further away with "Skyhawk"! Tho' wasn't the A-4 originally the F4D for some reason?


Do yer worst!

24th Mar 2004, 15:10
Thanks Treaders.......How about 1920's and part of me still exists.

24th Mar 2004, 15:50
Would you be perhaps an Airship engine?

24th Mar 2004, 15:58
Negative - fixed wing aeroplane

Tim Inder
24th Mar 2004, 16:03
Are you British, by any chance?

24th Mar 2004, 16:04
Exists at Old W? Or would that be too obvious for you?

24th Mar 2004, 16:23
Much too obvious, but I wish it did.

No, it's mortal remains are not part of the OW fleet, and I am British.

24th Mar 2004, 16:41
Got to go, so am I allowed two questions?

Here goes:


Metal or wooden primary structure?

24th Mar 2004, 16:47
Wooden primary structure and a biplane, and as far as I'm concerned, you can have as many questions as you like - but too many would defeat the enjoyment of the game n'est-ce pas;)

Third edit - second atempt. On further reading here's a difinitive description: Wooden fuselage, metal empennage, combined wood and metal wing, the whole fabric covered. :O :O :O


24th Mar 2004, 19:31
Surrey A.L.1? But all of that still exists, I think.

24th Mar 2004, 19:36
No, not that one Aerohack, but your're going in the right direction.

I do like this game, it's increasing my knowledge no end. I'd never head of the Surrey Flying Services AL 1, so I looked it up. Pretty little thing, isn't she. Sadly, I can't say the same for the subject machine!

24th Mar 2004, 19:42
That part of you that still exists a recent discovery, or long extant?

BTW: last I heard, not too long ago, the A.L.1 was still in store, fully rigged.

24th Mar 2004, 19:52
As far as I'm aware, she deteriorated gradually over the years. The current custodians list her on the net as part of their collection (I'll post the URL when you've guessed her). The fuselage frame and some of the empennage are extant - at least, that's what was left when I saw her in 1990 or so.

24th Mar 2004, 22:11
Are you perchance the Parnall Pixie III? Started life as a biplane with detachable upper mainplane, later pure monoplane. Some parts of G-EBJG held at the Midland Air Museum...

25th Mar 2004, 00:18
Perhaps you are the Wheeler Slymph?

25th Mar 2004, 05:20
Airbedane are you a Blackburn product?

25th Mar 2004, 05:44
Well Done Treaders, I am indeed the Parnall Pixie.

I was built in Yate, close to my home in Bristol, and I'm one of two Parnall aircraft existing. The other is the Elf in the Shutleworth Collection.

In 1923 the Daily Mail and the Duke of Sutherland sponsored competitions designed to stimulate light aircraft development; Parnall entered a single seat low wing monoplane, the Pixie, built in two forms with 13hp and 26hp Douglas engines. The Pixie won the 500 Abdulla Company prize for speed. The aircraft produced for the 1923 Lympne Trials were unrealistic machines being too lightly-powered to be flown in even modest winds and in 1924 the Air Council announced another competition for higher powered two seaters. Bolas revised the Pixie to produce both a monoplane and a biplane with an upper wing called the Pixie III and Pixie IIIA respectively. Both were powered by 32hp Bristol Cherub III engines. Neither Pixie was successful in competition as both suffered forced-landings with engine trouble. The Pixie III was entered again in the 1926 Lympne Trials and finished fourth.

The Pixie's remains certainly rest wih the MAM:


Here's a picture of the biplane:


The small wing mono:


and the long wing mono:


There were several other mono/biplanes in the trials - the Supermarine Swallow and Halton Minus spring to mind.


Yes LowNSlow, you called? - Ah, I missed the edit. No, see above.

25th Mar 2004, 06:02
I was suffereing from brain stall I'm afraid. Somebody asked me a work orientated question and confused me :ooh:

25th Mar 2004, 06:24
Cripes LNS, you start early!

OK, Treaders, what's next?

25th Mar 2004, 06:27
Airbedane we're 4 hours ahead in Kazakhstan mate :uhoh:

25th Mar 2004, 08:04
Oh, sneaky Airbedane. I'd already dismissed the Pixie because it hadn't survived as a biplane! And, would you believe, sitting within a hand's reach is a plan for a model of it I'm sure you know the one.

25th Mar 2004, 10:16
treadders has obviously slipped out for lunch so I'll fill the breach.

Probably due to my lack of success only one component of mine is extant.

25th Mar 2004, 12:13
Nah, late in due to a weather challenging haircut...

NOW I'm on lunch!

Are you fixed-wing?

(PS: good thread mate, must be the fastest growing ever on AHN!)

25th Mar 2004, 13:27
Cheers Treaders

I am indeed a fixed wing flying machine

25th Mar 2004, 14:15
Can I play Please !!!

Were you built in Bristol ?


25th Mar 2004, 14:43
Wow LNS, and I thought you were in the UK - didn't you bring an Auster to Old Warden recently??

Aerohack - I do know the plan, but I didn't think it that sneaky, the Pixie IIIa was the bi-plane and that's the one at Coventry. However, had the first guess been a mono-plane rather than a bi-plane, I would have said 'Yes' to that, which would have been sneaky :D :D

Now, back to LNS - Which bit is extant, the engine?

25th Mar 2004, 15:03
I'll guess the propeller...?

25th Mar 2004, 15:07
<<I would have said 'Yes' to that, which would have been sneaky>>

Airbedane: In which case I'd still have missed it, 'cos then I'd have gone for the Wheeler Slymph.

LowNSlow: Brabazon?

25th Mar 2004, 17:43
Come on LNS, where are you?

How about the Bistol 133 - spun in during testing on 8 March 1935, the pilot, Campbell, got out, but only just - his foot caught in the control column as he was trying to egress the cockpit. The engine and remains of the prop were dug up during rebuilding works by the Post Ofice following the sale of the old Bristol Engines site at Filton about 10 years ago. They now rest with the Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust at Filton, but the rest of the aicraft went missing following the crash.

26th Mar 2004, 02:58
Just joined this game, I'm saying the original B-36 (one wheel left) Probably not right, and I didn't ask any questions, but I thought I'd throw that answer in thar.

26th Mar 2004, 04:15
Sorry for the delay chaps

Mr. Grubby - no

treadders - no, see below

Airbedane - no, it's a wheel

Aerohack - no

mexchiwa - no, I'm not that big

26th Mar 2004, 06:04
Here's a clue chaps; I crashed on my maiden flight

26th Mar 2004, 06:50
"....in 1973 a California company created a hybrid from a Ford Pinto and a Cessna Skymaster. It generated heated excitement until the aircraft crashed on its maiden flight. "

The mind boggles at the thought of a Ford 337 ... or is that a Cessna Pinto?

"On October 5th 1930 the British-built airship "R101" crashed into a hillside near Beauvais in France...."

Been Googling the last clue! :}

26th Mar 2004, 07:19
You weren't getting a haircut too were you?

Wasn't the Ford 337 Skypinto, or the Cessna 337 Pintomaster used in the James Bond film "Man with the Golden Gun"? Don't believe it actually flew in the film, but the tail group was 337 as i recall - my car knowledge isn't up to identifying the car!

Sorry, Woomera digressed me...

Planet Satellite?

26th Mar 2004, 07:20

British, French, Italian, German or American?

26th Mar 2004, 09:14
woomera & treadders no to the Cessna or the R101

Airbedane - British by gum!

26th Mar 2004, 09:42
Erm, I can't guess this one so I suppose I have to ask a question...

Are you a biplane?

26th Mar 2004, 10:01
karrank no I'm not a biplane but I do have lots of struts......

26th Mar 2004, 10:10
Bruning-Forssman (Poll) Triplane?

26th Mar 2004, 10:25
Aerohack the triplane bit is right.....

26th Mar 2004, 10:29
Ah! Come to think of it, I don't think the Poll ever got anywhere near to flying. But the Tarrant Tabor did. Could it be that?

26th Mar 2004, 10:43
Aerohack Twas indeed the one and only Tarrant Tabor. The 131' span six engined triplane started the takeoff for it's maiden flight. First the pilot opened up the four Napier Lions on the lower two wings, once she was rolling he opened up the two engines on the upper wing (:uhoh: :uhoh: ) unfortunately even taking this precaution didn't stop her nosing over, probably to the sound of 'I told you so'. :hmm: :hmm: All that remains of this wooden monster is an 11' diameter mainwheel in the IWM.

Well done Aerohack

26th Mar 2004, 10:47
LowNSlow: Where's the wheel?

And here's another: My much earlier namesake was a first for the brothers, but I was Al's bird, and we were both only children.

26th Mar 2004, 11:14
Aerohack are you a Vought Corsair II?
PS The wheel is in the IWM.

26th Mar 2004, 11:36
LNS: I think the IWM has, or had, a wheel from the Poll, too.

Not, not a Corsair II, but right nationality for me, though not my namesake.

26th Mar 2004, 11:40
A P-38 Lightening maybe?

26th Mar 2004, 11:44
No, much later, and not military.

26th Mar 2004, 11:49
So you are American but your namesake isn't?

Is your namesake British?

26th Mar 2004, 11:56
Yes, it was British, and pre-dated me by nearly half a century.

26th Mar 2004, 12:04
Aerohack are you really really strong; ie Hercules as in dH-66 Hercules and Al Lockheed's C-130 Hercules?

26th Mar 2004, 12:24
Correct number of engines for my British namesake, but from the wrong family (hint: its creators' products have dominated a thread here for months). Lockheed Hercules? Way too heavy, three more engines than I had, of the wrong type, and my promotor, Al, was not a Loughhead. Aeroplanes aside, a Cigar was his great pleasure.

26th Mar 2004, 12:42
Are you a Gemini then?

26th Mar 2004, 12:48
The Miles brothers created my namesake, and it was their first of its kind, but not a Gemini.

26th Mar 2004, 13:06
Now I'm stumped, I can't find any record of a three engined Miles type :{

I can only hazard a guess at the Boxcar (4-engined)

26th Mar 2004, 13:14
Are we talking Allen Paulsen here?

Peregrine? Hate to admit it but I can't think of a Miles Peregrine, but it fits in with Falcon, Hawk, etc!


Miles Peregrine

Gulfstream Peregrine (sort of nee AJI Hustler)

(speaking of which we have two of the Avian version dismembering pigeosn outside my window even as wek speak... wonderful!)

26th Mar 2004, 13:19
Miles' first twin was the Monitor but I can't think of a newish American aeroplane called that.....

26th Mar 2004, 13:19
Sorry, LNS, I've mislead you. Mentally confused the D.H. 66 Hercules with the D.H. 95 Flamingo. So, my Miles namesake had not three engines, but two (and therein lies its 'first' for Miles). I had but one, and had I stayed the course, that too would have been a first for my kind, and I would have been part of an upmarket family that has grown considerably in recent years, and become much longer-legged.

2nd edit: Brilliant, Treadders! The M.8 Peregrine was the Miles brothers' first twin, and the Gulfstream Peregrine later Fanjet 1500 launched by Allen 'Al' Paulson when he owned Gulfstream, would have been the first single-engined business jet to have been certified. The 'Cigar' was Paulson's celebrated throughbred racehorse, which still hold the North American record for the most prize money won on track nearly $10 million.

BTW, had you not previously mentioned the Planet Satellite, that would have been my first choice

Over to you...

26th Mar 2004, 13:29
Aerohack as I've said above, the Monitor was the first Miles twin predating the Aerovan and the Gemini by nearly a year.

You're not thinking of the Miles Marathon are you? No you're not! I am going blind I think!

26th Mar 2004, 13:30
Huzzah - this drinking three pints at lunchtime obviously has its merits! But don't tell my boss. Or maybe do tell her...



My younger sibling had the same name as me, had twice as many, and was produced in many thousands... but I only survive as a replica.

Easyish I think...

Do me best to respond this afternoon...

(PS the Peregrines are still squaking outside the window - brilliant having this wildlife in the middle of Croydon!)

26th Mar 2004, 13:34
treadders are you British?

26th Mar 2004, 13:35
<<(PS the Peregrines are still squaking outside the window - brilliant having this wildlife in the middle of Croydon!)>>

Best I can manage is an original brochure for the Gulfstream version on my desk (which is what inspired me in the first place). But there were two magpies on the bird table at lunchtime, and the usual population of mallards (ahhh, Grumman!) flattening the lawn.

26th Mar 2004, 13:57
LNS - Absolutely old boy!

Aerohack: I believe the peregrines were introduced by the local council to deal with the pigeon population - a task with which they seem ideally suited, though I've never seen them stoop and kill: I did see one carrying a rat the other day, which I am told is impossible as they kill on the wing. No matter, main thing is they've adopted our building as "in loco cliff face" and we get wonderful views of them most days. Brendan O'Brien would love it!

By the way, I was thinking of Paulson smoking cigars - didn't know about the racehorse!

26th Mar 2004, 16:44
You must be the D.H 71 Tiger Moth?

26th Mar 2004, 22:35
Sycamore you git! Sigh... yes... your go mate...

26th Mar 2004, 23:18
Need to do some research, so , please fill your(my) boots!!!

27th Mar 2004, 04:54
sycamore amazing!!!

Here's a quicky - I have a famous sibling but, unfortunately, I wasn't much of a success .........

27th Mar 2004, 07:49
Did'st tha' have 2 engines and thy sibling 4?

If so, tha' was 't Manchesterrr an' thy sibling werr 't Lancaster!

27th Mar 2004, 09:11
Nice one BEags . I didn't think it'd be that quick!

27th Mar 2004, 09:35
OK - here's another!

My better-known sibling was much braver than I was - even though we were very similar. I mainly stayed at home while he went out to play.....

27th Mar 2004, 10:56
Be ye twin engined young man?

27th Mar 2004, 11:03
Vampire T11/Venom ?

27th Mar 2004, 11:16
LnS - Yes
sycamore - No, yes, no/no...

27th Mar 2004, 11:31
You must be the Brissle Buckinghan/Buckmaster/ Brigand bunch!!

27th Mar 2004, 11:40
sycamore - no oi'be not one o' they!

27th Mar 2004, 11:46
BEags whould thou be an Anson perchance?

27th Mar 2004, 11:49
No, that I wouldn't be. Sorry.....

27th Mar 2004, 11:50
Are you a Bristol product?

27th Mar 2004, 11:53
Nope - keep trying!


27th Mar 2004, 12:09
How about Armstrong Whitworth?

27th Mar 2004, 13:32
.........and again, nope!

Sorry - last guess at a specific manufacturer. Try a few more questions!

27th Mar 2004, 15:37
Hi Beags, Nice to hear you're back.


27th Mar 2004, 16:20
Gruss Gott, Airbedane!

Voss in Munchen for last 3 days......kein Internet Anschluss!

Yes - WW2!

27th Mar 2004, 17:40
The only ones left were made at the Glove Factory!!

27th Mar 2004, 18:12
Gruss Gott Beags - I remember Munchen, had lots of fun there in the early nineties flying the Turbo-Union 1-11 into there and Torino several times a week!

How about the Westland Whirlwind, the sibling being the Lysander?

27th Mar 2004, 19:08
Hi Airbedane!

Nope, Whirlwind isn't the answer. Not a bad guess - but both my brother and I had 2 engines - sorry. Westland isn't the right manufacturer, by the way.

The chairman of our meeting at Munich was also a TP - on the Tornado amongst other types.

sycamore's post has me really baffled!

27th Mar 2004, 19:23
Helicopter pilot - what did you expect :) :)

27th Mar 2004, 21:54
Just to put you out of your misery, I was considering the Welkin and Whirlwind, as made in Yeovil. Now anyone familiar with WestCountry cottage industries would know that there was a glove factory in Yeovil, and part of the WA factory had to be expanded during the War to increase output , so part or all of the glove factory was requisitioned, and the workers as well, making trim etc. Hence, it used to be known in helo tp circles, as The Glove Factory!! Surely, Beags, you would`ve known that ????

As a last gasp you must be The Airspeed Twins, Envoy and Oxford!!!!:ok:

27th Mar 2004, 22:54
In fact Yeovil Town, or whatever the football team are called, are known as the Glovers... this from a bitterly disappointed rugby fan!

Beags, Monoplane?

27th Mar 2004, 22:59
Monoplane - yes.

Never heard of the 'glove factory' connection, even though I worr from Zumazett moyself. But since neither kevball nor helicopters feature highly on my interests list, possibly not that surprising.

Welkin and Whirlwind, Envoy and Oxford equally incorrect.......

28th Mar 2004, 07:10
You're going to have to let us get back to manufacturers, BEags:

Vickers, Avro or Shorts?

28th Mar 2004, 07:33

But that might be an answer to your request for me to respond to direct guesses at the manufacturer, rather than my answer to your specific guesses......

28th Mar 2004, 08:03
Oh, how I've missed you over the years!!


28th Mar 2004, 08:16
Thinking of the Warwick, were you old chum?

Sorry to disappoint you......

28th Mar 2004, 08:19
In that case, how about Avro?

28th Mar 2004, 08:40
We both had twin engines.....so no, I'm not the York if that's what you were thinking of!

28th Mar 2004, 09:37
Ahhhhhh....DeH Rapide and Dominie?:\

28th Mar 2004, 10:01
Ahhhhhhh - nope!

If no-one's got my name before 1800Z today, I'll tell you then.

28th Mar 2004, 10:09
How about Shorts?

28th Mar 2004, 10:54
How about Shorts Sealand????

28th Mar 2004, 11:14
Not a Short design.....

28th Mar 2004, 11:23
Are you WW2 era?

28th Mar 2004, 11:34
I am...........................

28th Mar 2004, 11:49
Handley Page Hampden/Hereford

28th Mar 2004, 11:57

Yes, I'm the Handley Page Hereford! From www.handleypage.com :

Like the Avro Manchester, the Handley Page H.P.53 Hereford was basically a good airframe with a bad engine. The H.P.53 prototype, converted from the prototype of a Swedish patrol version of the Hampden, was flown in June 1937 with two 955 h.p. (712 kW) Napier Dagger VIII H-type engines, and Short Brothers and Harland was contracted to build an initial batch of 100 aircraft, a number later increased to 152. The first of these production aircraft from the Belfast line flew on 17th May 1939.
Tests at the Aircraft and Armament Experimental Establishment, Martlesham Heath, showed the Hereford's performance to be almost the same as that of the Hampden, but there the similarity ended. The engines were unreliable, over-heating on the ground and cooling too rapidly when airborne, while the very high pitched exhaust note proved uncomfortable for the crews.
One or two Herefords served alongside Hampdens in operational squadrons for a very short time, but were soon relegated to a training role, primarily with No. 16 Operational Training Unit (OTU) at Upper Heyford, Oxon, where first deliveries were made on 7th May 1940. Another Hereford unit was No. 14 OTU at Cottesmore, which had begun to operate the type as No. 185 Squadron; it was retitled No. 14 OTU in April 1940. One Hereford was used by the Torpedo Development Unit at Gosport, and at least 19 were subsequently re-engined and converted to Hampden standard.

So there's the Short connection!! As I wrote, not a Short design, although built by them!

28th Mar 2004, 18:37
M-o-t-F, tradition requires that it's your post next...........!!

28th Mar 2004, 20:11
Ok then

I was based on a design for a commercial transport

28th Mar 2004, 20:32

28th Mar 2004, 20:35
No.......................................................... ..........!

28th Mar 2004, 20:41
German? FW Condor, perhaps?

28th Mar 2004, 20:49
I hate you:E

Not using the same book as me perhaps

28th Mar 2004, 21:10
Well bug.ger me with a fish fork! 'twas but a wild-assed guess!

Have another go, mon brave!

29th Mar 2004, 05:36
Ok then

I was just too late to serve in WWII

29th Mar 2004, 05:53

29th Mar 2004, 05:56
Piston Fighter?

29th Mar 2004, 05:58

29th Mar 2004, 06:13
Grumman Bearcat?

29th Mar 2004, 06:16

Ok over to you, but next time no more Mr Nice Guy

29th Mar 2004, 06:23
Go on, have another go, I'm under the cosh a bit at the moment (and also too absorbed by the Susannah thread - thought this was Aviation Nostalgia, not Salavation Nostalgia...)

29th Mar 2004, 19:30
Come on MOTF, give us another one just like the otherone, give us anotherone do-oooooo.

29th Mar 2004, 19:37
OK then

Its one of my favourite aircraft.

29th Mar 2004, 19:37
Quite so! "Sing, you bug.ger, sing, sing or show us your ring! We've seen your ring, 'tis a horrible thing, so sing you bug.ger, SING.....!!"


And lo - he sings!

OK - is it British?

29th Mar 2004, 19:46
Beags you been on the pop tonight?

I may be British I may be not.
Of nationality from me
you'll get not a jot.

I was built in several places though.

Oh and I have been lucky enough to sit in one.

(at this point I have to confess that I havent read the whole thread so If this is a repeat then I apologise)

29th Mar 2004, 19:50
Do you have a single piston engine?

29th Mar 2004, 19:50
Is it based at Old Warden?

29th Mar 2004, 19:53
Hmmmm. Nationality a bit of a clue, obviously.

Anglo-French, perhaps?

Built in several places.....

Concorde, perchance

29th Mar 2004, 19:54
No and no (but it was nearly yes. however I digress)

No Beags I would never bring the French into this.

29th Mar 2004, 20:04
Twin piston engines?

29th Mar 2004, 20:05
No, nor airbags No CD Changer either.

29th Mar 2004, 20:06
Do you have a single piston angine and are you based at Old Warden - No and No ( but it was nearly) ???????????????????

Nearly single piston, or nearly based at Old Warden??

Thanks MOTF, this is worse than BEags!

Me 262 - started life with a single piston, then turned twin jet. Built in Germany and the USA.

29th Mar 2004, 20:09
Early jet.....?

29th Mar 2004, 20:11
Is this a race Beags......

I'll see your early jet and raise you a "Late jet?"

Come to think of it, the Wyern went from Piston to Turbo-prop.....are we getting warmer?

29th Mar 2004, 20:19
A British design later built under licence in the US? One that chum Airbedane achieved a world time-to-height record in? Which has been to OW a few times.....


29th Mar 2004, 20:19
Gentlemen you cant fight in here, this is the War Room!!

Me 262 - started life with a single piston, then turned twin jet. Built in Germany and the USA

Early jet.....?

I'll see your early jet and raise you a "Late jet?"

Come to think of it, the Wyern went from Piston to Turbo-prop.....are we getting warmer?"

See above and no colder.

but it was nearly I was in 2 minds which one to choose, so this is a bit of a blind alley. Oh and Airbedane you havent let me sit in any of your aircraft yet!!!

Harrier? No but it was a record holder I think and it was capable of taking off vertically(ish) with help.

29th Mar 2004, 20:36

We can fight anywhere and everywhere, we've been doing it verbally for years, and dare I say it, since before thee were born MOTF old chap.

Which of the machines do you want to sit in? Don't answer now, the result will depend on the help given by the next clue.............!

Oh, and Beags, it's two world records, or to be exact, deux 'records du monde', and for what it's worth, they both still stand.

29th Mar 2004, 20:38
Bragging rights and totally wrong. In the same post.

I'm impressed.

29th Mar 2004, 20:40
Not bad eh? Look again, I've added some more ;) ;)


Edit - don't answer that one MOTF, there's no way the Jag could get off vertically!

lets try: F4

29th Mar 2004, 20:42
Those records will stand for a very long time, I reckon, chum!

M-o-t-F - is this an Uhhrrmurrrikan jet?

29th Mar 2004, 20:52
Ok then so you are resorting to bribes.

And since when did an F4 (which has an incorrect number of engine(s) by the way) have any more chance of taking off vertically than a Jag.

Ok then 2 clues in one post, there are at least 3 on display in this country in museums.


Yes but only just and not exclusively.

Tim Inder
29th Mar 2004, 21:06
<Elbows his way back in between Airbedane and Beagle>!
Did the design first fly in the 1940s?

p.s. judging by the height them Jagulars fly over me house at, I'd say they have trouble flying anything other than strictly HORIZONTALLY, never mind extending into the vertical plane

29th Mar 2004, 21:11
Mr Inder sir


29th Mar 2004, 21:14
Was the 'vertical-ish' take-off achieved during 'zero launch' flights with an external solid rocket booster?

29th Mar 2004, 21:21

Tim Inder
29th Mar 2004, 21:25
Lockheed f104 Starfighter????

29th Mar 2004, 21:29
Well done sir, you have stolen it from under their noses.

Your turn

Tim Inder
29th Mar 2004, 22:07
I have to say thanks Beags, you put me on to it with that last question there - one would almost have thought that you knew the answer, yet didn't want to post it 'cos it's late and you didn't want to think of any fiendishly difficult types!

Ah, that means I have to. But it's laaate!

Ok here goes:

I have two seats.

29th Mar 2004, 23:48
Fore and aft
Port and starbord?

30th Mar 2004, 03:16
Gruss Gott, one day of hard graft with no Ppruning and I have to go back 3 pages to discover the Hampden / Hereford answer!!!

Are you a Chipmunk Mr. Inder?

30th Mar 2004, 04:04
Hmmmm.......despite M-o-t-F's replies, I had narrowed it down to either the F-104G or F-100:

'Under contract from the Luftwaffe, Lockheed carried out tests with an F-104G launched by rocket from a platform. At least one Luftwaffe F-104G was modified for a series of zero-length launch (ZELL) tests in 1963 at Edwards AFB in California. The F-104G was mounted on a trailer, and a 130,000 lb.s.t. Rocketdyne solid-fuel rocket booster was attached to the rear of the fuselage. For takeoff, the pilot would run up the J79 engine to full thrust, then light the rocket motor. Within four seconds after ignition, the F-104G would be flying at 300 mph and the rocket booster would drop off. The program was not disclosed to the public until March 21, 1966. Although tests were successful, the scheme was not adopted for operational use. After the ZELL test program was completed, the test F-104G was returned to service in Germany.'

so when I asked "Was the 'vertical-ish' take-off achieved using 'zero launch' flights with an external solid rocket booster?", the reply "maybe" had me a bit perplexed.......and I still can't figure why it was 'only just' an Americn jet acccording to M-o-t-F!

Anyway, had to stack as I've got a nice drive to Gatwick today. M25......oh, joy!

30th Mar 2004, 04:54
Enjoy your drive Beags, in the meantime:


30th Mar 2004, 05:24

Only just because I it ws hardly used by our Spam loving chums being built mostly for export, and quite a few were made abroad as well (Kawasaki?/Fokker/Canadair etc)

Oh and Maybe because by then I knew you were on to me :}

Is it Canadian Mr Inder sir?

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 06:27
'morning all.
Good thing I remembered to bring my 'Prooner's book of obscure aircraft for quizzes' in to work!

Ok here goes:
Seacue - Yes ( :) )
L'n'S - No
Airbedane - Yes
MotF - No, wrong continent.

Must be feeling generous to chuck a clue in at this stage of the game...

30th Mar 2004, 07:34


Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 07:44
Mais non. Pas Francais mon brave.

30th Mar 2004, 08:02
British then...................................................?

30th Mar 2004, 08:24
Are you supported by biplane wings Mr. Inder

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 08:44
'No' to both...

30th Mar 2004, 09:04
Oriental Mr I

All this hereis because the new server is apparently crap

30th Mar 2004, 09:05
Must be a Fokking Instructor!!!!!!!!!!

30th Mar 2004, 09:06
If one were Antipodean would one be a Wirraway?

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 09:20

hmm, another clue...

Stick with Europe.

30th Mar 2004, 09:37
Would you be a flying dog whistle aka magister?

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 09:50
Not one of those, LowNSlow.

Far be it for me to tell you what to ask, but these 'wild stabs in the dark' mightn't be the way forward - We've got the best part of 100 years of European 2 seaters to choose from here :)

30th Mar 2004, 09:57
Tim Inder point taken.

OK are you a tween the wars aeroplane?

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 10:17
Which wars would that be?

Only joking! No, it's not a 'tweenie.

30th Mar 2004, 10:30
How about a WW1 trainer?

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 10:39
No, later than that.

30th Mar 2004, 10:58
Retractable undercarriage?

30th Mar 2004, 11:48
Enclosed canopy?..............................................

30th Mar 2004, 12:45
I'm still puzzled. I asked whether seating
was fore & aft or port/starbord.

The answer was YES.

I don't know of two-seater planes that offered both options.

Or was I mislead by thinking "two seats" meant two-place?

My Question: Are you a plane for a maximum of 2 people?


Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 13:20
Retracts - Yes
Enclosed canopy - Yes
seacue, I was being facetious in my earlier post - you asked if it was a tandem OR side by side and it is one of those, so Yes.

However, post lunchtime torpor is setting in here, so I'll give you a freebie to liven things up a bit...

It is designed for a maximum of two people and they sit in tandem.

30th Mar 2004, 14:26
May I join ?

Swiss by chance ?
Pilatus PC-7 ?

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 14:30
Welcome aboard, M. Bre901

Um, No, it isn't one of those. Not Swiss either I'm afraid.

30th Mar 2004, 14:37
Let's move eastwards then
Czech ?
Zlin Z526 Trener ?

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 14:52
'Niet' or whatever. colder...

30th Mar 2004, 15:01
Guess we forgot one important question :
jet or propeller ?

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 15:07
Ah, now we're playing for keeps!
It's a prop job.

30th Mar 2004, 15:16
Germany ?
Rhein Flugzeugbau, Fantrainer 400/600, vielleicht ?

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 15:18
better hurry before the 'evening shift' clock on!

OK, another hint, there were a few built as single-seaters as well.
Some examples were exported, one going to South America.

30th Mar 2004, 15:52
I understand the "colder" now :ok:

Italiano !

S.A.I. Ambrosini S.7

right or wrong, this one belongs in the "funny registration" thread

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 16:18
I like it!
Not the right aircraft,, but HOT!

30th Mar 2004, 16:48
Evenin' all,

Fiat G 46 - Bella maccina!

G46A was the single seater, G46B the 2-seater.

30 went to Argentina.

Hated the ba$tard M25 today, by the way! Even in my cosy little SLK!

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 16:52
Evening Beags,
Warmer! i.e. Ouch!

Glad you enjoyed the '25 - I woulnd't touch it with yours!

30th Mar 2004, 16:56
Fiat G-55A and B then?

Also went to Argentina.....

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 16:58
Oh it burnssss my preciouss!
Not quite there yet!

30th Mar 2004, 17:01
Well it could be the Fiat G59A and B - except that it didn't, as far as I know, go to South America.....

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 17:02
Hurrah for the shining knight of the road networks!

According to my sources, one was sent to the Argies.


Over to you...

30th Mar 2004, 17:18
Well, there's a thing.......

Shall be off the air for a while ce soir, so if anyone else wishes to dive in, please do!

30th Mar 2004, 19:46
Very gracious of you BEags, and since there appear to be no other takers, here goes:

I could have been a high flier, but never found my pot of gold.

Tim Inder
30th Mar 2004, 20:03
Civilian aircraft?

30th Mar 2004, 20:07
What a day, too much flying and not enough time off to PPRuNe.


30th Mar 2004, 20:25
'Too much flying....?'

There is such a thing?

Left home at 0730, made a bolleaux decision regarding M25 roadworks and got stuck on A329M trying to be a clever bug.ger by going down through Bracknell to the M3 to avoid them. Got to CAA at 1020; 15 minutes phone and laptop chat for the 'day job', then 51/2 hour meeting with the CAA. Much better trip home - until wretched A40 roadworks.....

And all on one of the nicest days of the year...

However, enough of my prattle.

Single engine?

30th Mar 2004, 20:36
Civilian? H'mm. Not in its initial form, but would have been in a further development.

Not a jet as such, though there was an element of jet thrust, and it was multi-engined.

30th Mar 2004, 20:44
You are the Republic XR-12 Rainbow!

Here are some piccies of this very shapely 4-prop:


30th Mar 2004, 20:47
Needn't have bothered with that last edit. Outstanding, BEags! You have control.

30th Mar 2004, 20:54
M0.8 at FL400 - with 4 piston engines! That was truly amazing!!

Bit knackered after 5 hours behind the V-6 Benz today, so am off up the wooden hill right now; if anyone wants to take the helm, please do!

31st Mar 2004, 04:37
OK then,

People think I'm related to a far better known aeroplane, but I'm not! But I can easily see why they think that......

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 06:24
Are you a civvy?

31st Mar 2004, 06:43
No, sir.........

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 06:48
Ok, English design?

31st Mar 2004, 06:53
I'm not - but the design people think I'm derived from was!

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 06:55
Have you a single engine?

31st Mar 2004, 06:57
I have more than one engine.

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 07:13
Are you turbine powered?

31st Mar 2004, 07:31

Too much flying - yes there is such a thing, but last night's statement was a bit of an exageration - it was the paperwork that went with it that took the time!)

31st Mar 2004, 08:00
Turbine powered - no.

American? Not from the US of A!

Know what you mean about too much paperwork, chum!

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 08:04
Are you a post-war design?

31st Mar 2004, 08:20
The British design which inspired my designer was indeed from WW2. But I didn't fly until after WW2......

31st Mar 2004, 08:43
Are you jet-propelled ?

31st Mar 2004, 08:59

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 09:26
Since you're a military type, was your primary role agressive? (i.e. fighter/attack/bomber)

31st Mar 2004, 10:21
I was indeed agressive!

31st Mar 2004, 10:34
Are you European ? (I mean continental, of course)

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 10:35
Are you an Eastern Bloc product then?

31st Mar 2004, 10:41
I am neither a Continental European nor an Eastern Bloc product.......

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 10:54
Blimey, this is tricky!
Are you the product of an African nation then?

31st Mar 2004, 10:57
Or maybe South America?
Or 'Orstraylya ?

31st Mar 2004, 11:08
Are you the Argentinian I.A.E.24 Calquin (Royal Eagle) attack bomber, first flown in June 1946? Mosquito-like, and originally intended for Merlin power, but P&W radial engined, and no relation.

31st Mar 2004, 11:25
Si, Senor! Yo soy el Calquin!

Well done - not an easy one.

For disbelievers, have a look at http://reporteaereomundial.com.ar/historias/historias07.html

Sorry - it's in Spanish, but there are some piccies of the Calquin there.

31st Mar 2004, 11:32
Easy one then. I was strictly single-entry, and my numbers didn't add up.

31st Mar 2004, 12:06
Did you have four piston engines?

[I mean four engines w/ pistons, not engines w/ 4 pistons.]

31st Mar 2004, 12:09
Not four, and not pistons.

31st Mar 2004, 12:27
Two jets then ?

31st Mar 2004, 12:28
Two yes, jets no.

31st Mar 2004, 12:45
This adds up to two turbines or I missed something

Transport ?
Brit ?

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 12:48
Numbers don't add up... hmm.
different number of props than donks? Or is that fairly wide of the mark?

31st Mar 2004, 13:17
Bre901: Yes and yes.
Tim: No, nothing like that.

Tim Inder
31st Mar 2004, 13:20
What about the 'single entry' thing - you mean one door?

Ok, HS 748/Andover?

31st Mar 2004, 13:31
<<What about the 'single entry' thing - you mean one door?>>

No, think 'one-off'. So not the H.S. 748, but similarly whining...

31st Mar 2004, 14:29
Aviation Traders Accountant!

Ugly thing - here's some gen: http://members.fortunecity.com/gvanroy1/atl90.html

31st Mar 2004, 14:36
Well, I could try to bluff that I've discovered the hitherto forgotten Bristol Bookkeeper or Percival Penpusher, but yes BEags, you have it again, Freddie Laker's short-lived, RR Dart-powered DC-3 replacement. Over to you, sir.

31st Mar 2004, 14:54
Sure it wasn't the Bristol Beancounter?

OK -

My designers thought it was such a super idea.....

31st Mar 2004, 17:15
Back in from aviating - not too much this time, just enough - and hasn't this hread raced ahead?

Now BEags, "My designers thought it was such a super idea.....". I think we can fairly say that most designers think that, so we have a wide field here!

Lets start at the begining: Aeroplane? (as in not a helicopter)

31st Mar 2004, 17:21
BEags: Not by chance a British lightplane with an unusual control system?

31st Mar 2004, 18:18
Aeroplane, British.......but not light!

1st Apr 2004, 02:38
BEags turbo prop powered?

1st Apr 2004, 04:56

1st Apr 2004, 04:59

1st Apr 2004, 05:38

1st Apr 2004, 05:44
Was it ever built?

1st Apr 2004, 06:01
Yes - it even had a brother!

1st Apr 2004, 06:43

1st Apr 2004, 06:45
Yes again, chum.......

Tim Inder
1st Apr 2004, 07:48