Lies, Damned Lies and British European

[PaulDeGearup]

Jim French, the BE Managing Director, got some great PR in the North East when he announced that 60 ex Gill staff would be taken on for the "new" (read former Gill) routes from NCL.

So far the plan appears to be that BE will employ some cabin crew and perhaps a few people on the gorund, but no pilots and certainly not the promised 60. Would it not have been more prudent to not mention numbers and raise hopes ? Or was it just a calculated measure to generate some goodwill and publicity ?

[dv8]

Thought it was too good to be true but did keep my fingers crossed

[starship]

British European are interviewing at NCL for Cabin Crew next week. The numbers required were planned at :

9 X No. 1's / IFD
14X Juniors

The requirement for groundstaff would be very small, if next to nothing as they already have a handling agent at NCL and their operation is not big enough to warrant self handling.

The news about pilot recruitment however is not what I expected, nor anyone else by the sounds of it.

23 Cabin crew at the moment, however that is only enough to crew two aircraft on the current schedule. I expect that should any other routes such as ABZ be taken up in the future,then more would be required.

The only airlines to have a crew base at NCL with no Flightdeck are KLMuk and Air Scandic who nightstop crews from AMS/STN and Helsinki respectively. All others have full crew bases. Would be strange not to see BE have flightdeck base soon. Why set up a crew base with no flightdeck for 3 CDG and 5 BHD per day?

Good luck to all at NCL, for now and the future.

Cheers,

starship :)

[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: starship ]

[hapzim]

all takes time and training . senior managment dont share their plans with middle managment who have to implement the ideas until all announced, so patience will help. hope u all get new jobs soonest. hope never unlucky enough to be in your positions . :(

[Raw Data]

Well, I fail to see why PaulDeGearup is annoyed with BE, who have told no lies and have in actual fact gone far beyond the "extra mile" for those left in the lurch by Gill.

Just because you worked for an airline that was inconsiderate enough to go broke on you, does not give you the right to slag off another airline simply because they fail to satisfy your own personal desires. If you want to work for BE, apply in the usual way, and if (big if) you are selected, you may be able to get a slot at NCL.

Mr French told no lies, the facts are that when the NCL base is fully established and manned, it will (probably) eventually have a similar number to the one he mentioned.

You may or may not be amongst them... my guess is, with that sort of attitude, no type rating and an obvious lack of interest in moving, you won't.

Fact is, BE owe you nothing, and the title of this thread is well out of order. Try growing up a bit.

[5 Alive]

PaulDeGearup I do understand your situation i.e. your hopes being raised and no immediate job.
However in this climate I think BE are wise not to rush in. Training so many new pilot and salaries to keep them, without making sure the routes are proving practical and profitable would be a mistake.
I am sure once the routes have proved successful which I am sure they will!
Newcastle could well become a big base for BE and several pilots will be needed to be based there.
Hence alot of the ex Gill pilots could well be working for BE.
So I see no lies being told by anyone!!!!

[PaulDeGearup]

This came from a former colleague:

The British European MD was interviewed on TV and said that they would be
looking for approx. 55 staff - this to include pilots, cabin crew and
engineers - jobs would be offered 'to suitably qualified ex-Gill employees
first - but no guarantees'.

Now RD, I didnt say that, the MD did. In addition, I do know that some cabin crew have interviews, which is great;but before you get on your white charger and so heroically defend your employer, take a pace back and reread what I said; Would it not have been more prudent to not mention numbers and raise hopes ?

I wasn't slagging anyone off;now is hardly the time for anyone involved in aviation to slag any part of the industry off. However, the comment by your MD raised hopes, under the circumstances my rather "subdued" question is hardly inflammatory. Incidentally, BE were given first refusal on the already profitable routes to CDG and BHD to keep bigger fish away;their action in taking them over was hardly altruistic.

[RadAlt]

PaulDeGearup, your quote:
looking for approx. 55 staff ..... 'to suitably qualified ex-Gill employees
first - but no guarantees
PDG, and others,please note the words approximate and no guarantees.

BE has just jumped in where Gill has left off.
Maybe at the moment BE doesn't need any extra flightdeck-crew and can handle it with there own crews?! (as if ;))

[foxtrotzulu]

Is there any vacancies going for cabin crew in Belfast by anychance?

[Raw Data]

PaulDeGearup

>> I wasn't slagging anyone off <<

Try reading the title you gave the thread!! :rolleyes:

>> This came from a former colleague:
The British European MD was interviewed on TV and said that they would be
looking for approx. 55 staff - this to include pilots, cabin crew and
engineers - jobs would be offered 'to suitably qualified ex-Gill employees
first - but no guarantees'.

Now RD, I didnt say that, the MD did. <<

Er, no, your mate did. Show me that statement, in writing, from Mr French, and I will take some notice of it.

>> jobs would be offered 'to suitably qualified ex-Gill employees
first - but no guarantees'. <<

It means exactly what it says, and is not misleading in any way. Also, bear in mind that jobs will be offered to displaced/redundant crews from BE first.

The only hopes raised where those of people who didn't bother to listen to what was (apparently) said. Remember, "no guarantees".

Incidentally, BE were given first refusal on the already profitable routes to CDG and BHD to keep bigger fish away;their action in taking them over was hardly altruistic.

Nonsense. We were the first out of the gate on the BHD (others were interested in operating, anyone with an aircraft and an AOC could have operated it). No-one "gave" it us. We got the CDG because we obtained agreement from Air France (for various reasons). There were no "bigger" fish. Try checking your facts.

[SKYWALKER1]

So what is exactly happening, will there be interviews for ex-Gill staff or not? I did not see the report on television but I know of people who are hoping for some jobs with BE. If there are interviews next week what date please?

[redfield]

BE seem to have been on the recieving end of too much negative criticism recently especially where ex-Gill people are concerned. They're not obligated to employ ex-Gill staff just because they happen to be there! Can anyone shed any more light on the BE NCL-LCY route rumours?

[derbyram]

sure...its just a rumour.

[Raw Data]

...an incorrect rumour.

I say again... words twice... NOT-NOT TRUE-TRUE.

Any questions? :D ;) :cool:

[ 17 October 2001: Message edited by: Raw Data ]

[SKYWALKER1]

So in other words there are no BE interviews in Newcastle next week? Is that correct, or am I picking this up all wrong. From the posts above and the local teletext, there was a definate mention of ex Gill staff having the opportunity to apply for some of the new posts being created.
What a waste of North East talent and I know of many European staff with languages, classed as No1s, over 43, but can still work and need the jobs! :eek: :eek:

[ 17 October 2001: Message edited by: SKYWALKER1 ]

[derbyram]

I don't know about GO interviews..but I do know that BE are recruiting cabin crew...they are I believe interviewing over the next couple of days.

[starship]

BRITISH EUROPEAN are interviewing THU/FRI this week, for CABIN CREW ONLY.

Approx 20 attending each day, required number at this stage was planned at mid twenties.

No GO-FLY interviews, operated by STN crews and is not a nightstopping aircraft (first movement at NCL is an inbound at 0730 back out at 0800).

cheers,

starship :)

[Raw Data]

SKYWALKER1

Yes there are interviews, for the BHD and CDG services- just no LCY, that's all.

It may be a waste of north-east talent, but then we have plenty of talent of our own. Sadly, when airlines go broke, people lose out.

I hope you have all applied to BE regardless...

[SKYWALKER1]

Were there any staff taken on from Gill does anybody know?

:)

[derbyram]

give 'em a chance...they don't finish the interviews until tomorrow night!

[controller friendly]

Raw Data
Why do you have to take things so personally & be horrible to people?
An airline who are so inconsiderate as to go broke on you...as i heard it & i may be wrong,but the banks pulled in their loans on Gill because of the current climate,why else would BE be doing so well?
I only hope you don't live to regret some of the things you have said as i have some really good friends working for BE. :(

[Raw Data]

Is that some sort of threat? :rolleyes:

You are quite correct as to why Gill went belly-up, however the damage had been done long before.

The reason for my tone was simply that both the title of the thread, and the assertions of PaulDeGearup, are completely out of order, as they imply that BE somehow lied to Gill staff- that is not only untrue, but quite outrageous on a public forum. These assertions are also damaging to BE, but that is obviously OK in your book....

BTW, I have first-hand experience of being in airlines that have gone broke... twice. I know how it feels and I sympathise, but that is absolutely no excuse for both the title and initial content of this thread.

[HugMonster]

That's right, RD, and that is still no reason to mis-state the reason Gill went under. We were a profitable, solvent company, with passenger loads increasing month on month, and we were in the black at the bank. What they pulled was the share capital. Your own FOD has stated that he doesn't understand why the bank pulled it, since you have taken over some very nice routes, with good loads.

Incidentally, unless I have severely mis-remembered it, your MD stated on local TV here that BE would be employing "up to 55 pilots, cabin crew and engineers". That appears not to be the case.

We lost out, thanks to the Bank of Scotland. You gained. No hard feelings towards BE or any of your pilots who will be moving to this very nice part of the world - we'll even be pleased to see them in the Aero Club. Just don't expect us to be able to afford to buy them a beer.

If you employ any of our former cabin crew, you'll find them to be one of your best assets - they certainly were one of ours. We had many, many letters of praise from passengers for the standard of the service they recieved, the friendliness and professionalism. Please look after them well for us.

And stick to the facts next time, please, like you expect others to?

[ 19 October 2001: Message edited by: HugMonster ]

[Raw Data]

Funny then, that no-one else felt sufficiently confident to step in and invest in Gill. In any case, the precise reason is academic.

I hate to see companies go under, and I understand your disappointment, however you too need to stick to the facts.

Unfortunately, none of you seem to be able to come up with the same quote. You will recall that the words "no guarantees" were prominent. Also, once the dust has settled, and we know the disposition of our own crews, it is quite possible that ex-Gill pilots will end up employed by BE- but not until all our own crews' bids are in and processed. Similarly, I would imagine some engineers would end up on the payroll as well. Your case is not helped by the fact that a number of people who hold type ratings for the types we fly, and are either unemployed, or will shortly be so, would probably be willing to re-locate to NCL just to have a job.

Our MD has said nothing that is not true, and as he gave no promises regarding timeframe, it is unlikely that he will end up in that position. The situation is extremely fluid at the moment, and we are reacting to changing circumstances on a daily basis.

Some ex-Gill folk seem to think that a) BE owe them something, and b) any pilot employment will happen this week. I'm afraid it just doesn't work like that, as you of all people should know, Hugmonster.

[HugMonster]

What makes you think nobody else felt sufficiently confident to invest in Gill? Sorry, but that's a total nonsense, and shows how little you know of the subject, yet feel prepared to spout off about it.

The company felt no need to seek further investment. I personally know of two other major investors who were prepared to invest in Gill, as well as many employees who were asking for the opportunity to invest.

RD, you generally come across as a very sensible sort of person, and generally very knowedgable about the industry, compounded by an unwillingness to go off half-cocked. You have done yourself a disservice here. Or perhaps you think Gill deserved to fail? Why else the sour remarks?

[BALLSOUT]

Come on guys, how about you give it a rest.
I'm sure that if and when the management of B E are in a position to offer any pilots positions within their company, then they will look favourably and sympathetically towards those of us from Gill.
Until then, all of this bickering is doing nobody any favours.
Good luck to British European, I hope you prosper at NCL and good luck to all ex Gill employees, I'm sure things will work out well in the end.

BALLSOUT. ;)

[Raw Data]

OK, final from me on the subject of Gill: Explain to me, Huggy, how if all these people were ready to invest (with sufficient funds), Gill ended out of business. There was ample to time to effect a rescue; the simple fact is that the money wasn't there.

It was also common knowledge that a buyer was being sought for Gill... nobody was interested.

You believe what you want, Huggy, but I think most people can see that profitable, investment-worthy companies survive- notwithstanding the effects of Sept 11.

I too hope we can eventually offer employment to all ex-Gill staff, or that they find something better.

[Capt PPRuNe]

That's enough arguing over semantics. I will have the last word on this.

For whatever reason Gill went under it doesn't detract form the fact that the pilots, engineers, cabin crew and all the other staff find themselves out of a job. BE has taken over some of the routes and are employing some ex-Gill staff. If the NCL base proves to be as profitable for BE as it was for Gill then we can expect BE to expand there in the future and therefore there will be more opportunities for those that haven't found alternative employment.

Yes, the title of the thread was unfortunate and unfortunately I don't have the facility to edit the title any more but if everyone can just step back a minute and realise that the author was probably upset due to his circumstances and placed a distorted interpretation on the BE MD's words. Unless he was a newspaper editor then as with most topics, the titles leave quite a lot to be desired and we should learn to accept that not everyone gets it right first time around.

So, please stop all the bickering over the irrelevant stuff. Form what I can gather in this thread is that Gill crews were hard working and professional. BE are taking over some of the routes and opening a base in NCL so there will be some opportunities for ex-Gill crews to join them and if all goes well in the future then there will be more opportunities.