Blue Pullovers and Gold Stripes

[Sassenach]

I raised a point in Thief13x's thread, 'When you almost became... "Another Statistic"', about students and PPLs not feeling able to discuss their mistakes with their instructors for fear of reprimand or embarrassment. I went on to suggest that the image an instructor creates for himself/ herself has a large part to play in this reluctance:

Don't make yourselves out to be demigods or super-human; be modest about your capabilities, encourage open discussion with your students and listen to what they tell you - who knows, you might learn something too. Instructors wearing white cotton shirts, blue pullovers and gold stripes can be really intimidating to inexperienced students. Good instructors don't need physical trappings to prove how good they really are.

The instructors at our club are all incredibly experienced (including several airline training captains and an ex RAX test pilot), but are incredibly modest about it, to the point of being self-effacing. They strive to put students at their ease: this includes a conscious policy of not wearing any kind of instructor's uniform.

I am interested to know what PPL students past and present think about this. Do a blue pullover and gold stripes inspire confidence and put you at your ease, or are they just plain intimidating?

[shortstripper]

Niether really ...

The instructors who wear the trappings because the school insist have no choice anyway and the ones who do even when they don't have to, tend to be prats ... but then, even prats can be good or bad teachers :hmm:

Looking back, the best instructor I had IMHO was a woman. Not sure if that means anything but it may be because women don't seem to be as egotistical as men. The best male instructors I’ve had were all old and experienced (nothing to prove?). The only common factor is that all my instructors save one didn’t wear the trappings … the one that did was useless! … but I don’t think he either inspired or intimidated because of the uniform.

SS

[Zlin526]

Lots of differing opinions on this one. My own instructor was an ex-ag pilot. He'd quite often turn up wearing only shorts and sandals, but he could still show most instructors a thing or two about handling skills. As for protection from fire, he didn't seem to give a $-hit.

As Shortstripper says, those who HAVE to wear a uniform have no choice. Those who do have a choice and still wear a blue woolly pully and epaulettes for GA & club flying seem to have (IMHO of course) a bit of a problem with image. Maybe it goes with the smart 'flying school' clubhouse image that most people seem to expect these days. If I woz an instructor, I'd probably wear smart jeans, desert boots and a polo shirt, but that's what I tend to wear for flying anyway!

Its the same with 'Leather Pilot Cases'. How many 10 hr students do you know that go out and buy one, because it's seen to be 'an essential bit of kit which all pilot have'?

Any aviation psychologists (or psychiatrists for some instructors) on the forum care to comment?

Its the quality of the instruction that counts, not what the instructor is wearing. ;)





Edited for Political correctness and to avoid upsetting the sensitive characters among us.

[dublinpilot]

It's not about what you wear, but about how approahable you are.

The best instructor I had, was very good for a number of reasons (most not relevant to this thread). But one of the things I liked about him was that if I asked him a straight question, I got an honest answer, not a textbook one. Sometimes this would mean he'd have to tell me "I don't know", or "There's no right thing to do in that situation. You'll just have to decide with seems best, and go with it. What I would have done was..... But don't forget you always have the option of...."

But most of all he had confidence in my flying. Or at least appeared to have. That way I didn't mind telling him about my mistakes, and asking his advice. Had I not thought that he had confidence in my flying, I might have been more reluctant to discuss these things with him, in case he suddenly thought I was no longer capable of flying solo, or want to go back over areas I'd already covered.

This I suppose is why most students and PPL's don't want to discuss their mistakes. Fear of being "gounded for further training."

So instructors, always let your students feel that you have confidence in them, even if you don't! Otherwise they won't talk to you about their mistakes!

dp

[Aerobatic Flyer]

Obviously the owner or manager of a flying school will want his staff to look reasonably presentable, but it is competence that matters - and competence is generally accompanied by sufficient natural authority that clothing is irrelevant.

Dressing up in airline captain outfits to fly small aeroplanes is silly. As a customer, if all other things were equal, I would choose a school where the instructors dressed normally in place of one where they wore white shirts, and I would generally actively avoid one where the shirts came with gold trimmings.

[MLS-12D]

Dressing up in airline captain outfits to fly small aeroplanes is silly.Agreed. But then, so is dressing up in pseudo merchant marine outfits to fly large aeroplanes.This I suppose is why most students and PPL's don't want to discuss their mistakes. Fear of being "gounded for further training."Very true.

[Pink_aviator]

I think AS a flying female ,and low hour ,well high hour student ,low hour pilot,
55 hours

That to me ,I want to feel confident in my instructor and my school ,
and that goes with a proffesional image.

Proffetional in my mind

(and I am a dreamy romantic ,who always falls for her instructors )

is white shirt ,stripes and if cold, blue jumper with eppellets.

YES we all know that it is the quality of the instruction and not the "TRAPPING " but a smart appearance I think inspires confidence .

Especially for the TRIAL flyers
(yes I know we are talking about PPL students but they can come from them )
,
Who I have seen, can be qqquite nnnnervouse , and a jean clad ,open shirted ,bronzed taut muscled instructor may

emmmmmmmm
I think I may have just changed my mind .

THE PINKSTER .

[Human Factor]

Agreed. But then, so is dressing up in pseudo merchant marine outfits to fly large aeroplanes.

This is a legal requirement for the big jets (mainly so you can see who the flight crew are). However, I'd trade mine for something a bit more practical like a decent leather flying jacket, mainly so I don't freeze my bits off doing a walkround in the winter!

As far as instructors at your average PPL flying school wearing half a dozen stripes on their shoulders, I find it quite amusing. The best pilots don't need to prove it. The professional schools (OATS, etc.) are a different consideration though as they are training for the airline environment.

As for me, I wear an RAF baby-gro for light aircraft flying as I've seen what can happen if you don't.

HF

[Boing_737]

I have mixed views on this. On the one hand, a club provides an instructor with a uniform to give a good image - and as many instructors aren't exactly paid minimum wage, then it would seem unfair to make them buy the uniform themselves. This is especially true at the airfield I fly from which is very muddy during the winter months, and you wouldn't want to be destroying your own clothing.

On the other hand, a line should be drawn somewhere. Wearing the ol' gold stripes in a PA28 (or worse a C152) is a little pretencious IMHO. I certainly wouldn't do it if I was in that position as it seems to be a symbol of superiority - teachers in schools no longer wear gowns and mortar boards do they?

The approachability of an instructor is basically down to their attitude. If they are not approachable, and cannot talk candidly about (flying) problems with a student, then they shouldn't be an instructor - and I don't think the argument that they are just their before they get their right hand jet seat is a good one. Their sole purpose as an instructor is to teach you and I to fly, safely, and be there to offer advice as necessary. Do FIs have to do a course in tuition? (dunno the answer to that, never looked into an FI course). Does any external agency (outside of the flying fraternety) evaluate an instructors ability to teach?

One essential item that should be provided though, that would make instructors way more approachable is a constant deodorant shower during the summer months - nothing like getting into the cockpit on a barmy summer evening with your instructor who has been working all day in the flying greenhouses :\ :sad: :yuk:


Just my opinion, hope no one gets offended......

[MLS-12D]

This is a legal requirement for the big jets (mainly so you can see who the flight crew are).I stand to be corrected, but while there may be a regulatory requirement for aircrew to wear distinctive uniforms, I don't believe there is an legal directive that gold stripes and brass hats must be worn. ;)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

nothing like getting into the cockpit on a barmy summer evening with your instructor who has been working all day in the flying greenhouses Ah yes. Specially if their day job is test flying Hercs -- and they've spent the morning seeing how one behaves with both fans on the same wing turned off. Hard physical work that, it appears.

[ACW 335]

I doubt most people even know what the gold stripes mean?! Maybe they are just 'wannabes'?

My instructor wears a blue woolly pully somtimes but no gold stripes. Again i would say it is the instructor as a person - some people may find the stripes intimidating. I don't - i just think it looks dam siilly on some people...especially when they jump in a shed of a :mad: 152 :O

[BeechNut]

I have one of those blue woolly pullovers, but I'm not an instructor, just a 400 hour PPL. No stripes though.

I wear it because it's the warmest bloody sweater in my closet. And I live in Canada, and rather have a weakness for staying warm in winter. In fact it's so warm, I can only really wear it in the coldest weather.

Let's face it, flying a 115 knot Beechcraft is nothing pretentious...

Mike

[Sassenach]

All interesting stuff - keep it coming!

I tend to agree that instructors trying to look like airline pilots just end up looking silly. This always runs through my mind when I see flying school adverts in the back of magazines, with jumped-up newly-qualified instructors blue pullovered and epauletted up to the nines. In my view, just because a school is training potential airline pilots, doesn't mean that silly uniforms are justified either - smart work clothes would be much better. I recently visited the Trafikflyghögskolan at Ljungbyhed in Sweden - all their instructors and students wear flying suits which, as Human Factor said, is far more sensible attire.

I think Dublinpilot's comment about the manner in which questions are answered, is also very important. Students should always be prepared to ask "why?", and not just take their instructor's answer as gospel. If the instructor cannot provide a convincing explanation of something he or she has told you, it's probably rubbish. For example, has anyone asked their instructor to explain why he or she has advocated flapless landings in a crosswind?

[greeners]

Completely agree that flying suits are the only sensible way to go, and b*gg*r the wisecracks. Mind you, most pretentious of all are those who wear flying suits AND four stripes on their shoulders!

Sassenach, I remember trying to get out of Ljungbyhed on a veeery cold and frosty morning a year ago - the car skidding on the way to the hangar was not a great start...:(

[Genghis the Engineer]

Well, I'm a well known flying suit fan - but don't own any gold bars.

But, a couple of years ago I helped a colleague ferry a new Islander back from Bucharest. I wore my flying suit (in a new aircraft, still in primer, with no trim and a fair number of sharp edges and drafts it was ideal) and he wore a flying instructors jersey with an obscene number of gold bars.

It was quite clear when transiting continental airports that his gold bars carried considerable weight amongst customs officials, airport staff, etc and next I do a similar trip I'll probably invest a tenner in a set of them.

But to be fair to him, I've never seen him wear gold bars at work (he's a working civilian Test Pilot) or at play (he QFIs).

G

[dublinpilot]

Funny you should mention that Gen.

I was just thinking of an article I read in one of the mags a year or two ago, about a group making a flying trip across a number of countries. I think it was around southern Europe & north Africa, but coulnd't be sure.

Anyway they were having some difficulty with customs and decided to try wearing their white shirts and gold bars. Apparently all their customs problems were solved!

dp

[Boing_737]

I read something similar (in Flyer I think). It was the London to Sydney air race and account from one of the crews. They took it in turns to wear the coveted:E 4 gold bars, and they were worn to get stuff done in some of the more beurocratic countries.

Still no excuse for wearing them when pootling around the circuit though:}

[Capt. Manuvar]

Most instructors in other industries wear the standard shirt and tie. A lot of people expect a certain level of professionalism from flight schools/instructors. Not everyone learns to fly for the 'love of flying'. There are a lot of people see it as a career or business investment, and will not be too impressed by an FI in flipflops and shorts.
Most PROFESSIONAL pilots wear some form of uniform, i don't think FIs are or should be considered less professional than airline pilots, etc.
Most Police/EMS pilots wear growbags and gold bars and don't look like prats.
I detect a hint of jealousy among the anti-uniform brigade. I can bet you a fiver most of you have wished to have a professional pilot job but never got the chance. there's no point slagging of the fortunate few. I don't think that FIs in uniform look anymore ridiculous than supermarket/fast food workers who have to wear some of the most hideous colour combinations:yuk: .
In the end of the day, its the individual that counts not the uniform they're wearing.
I'm suprised by the change in attitude towards growbags. a few months ago on this forum, most wouldn't be seen dead in one. there's been a similar change in attitude among private helo pilots towards bone domes. It must be something in the water.
Zlin526
there's more to learning to fly than handling skills. I wouldn't touch that instructor of your with a bargepole, as a give a few $hit$ about fire protection.
Capt. M (off to buy one if those transair 5-gold-bar thingys):}

[slim_slag]

Capt. Manuvar,

Who are you kidding? Getting a job as a professional pilot in the late 90's was easier than falling of a log!

So you owe me and quite a few of my mates a fiver.

And only BA captains are allowed to wear 5 bars :)

[Sassenach]

We've strayed of the thread somewhat. My original question was whether instructors in uniform intimidated students and made them less likely to ask questions or admit mistakes.

Personally, I've got no desire to be an airline pilot. I enjoy flying interesting aircraft, doing aerobatics and navigating my way on long cross-countries using good old-fashioned map, compass and stopwatch. I relish the opportunity to chat to experienced aviators, and have learned a huge amount by asking questions and discussing my mistakes. I can do all of this because I feel at ease in our flying club environment and because experienced aviators tend to be very open and approachable. Arrogance and big-headedness have no place in aviation, in my opinion.

Capt M - you're right that FIs in uniform look no more ridiculous than supermarket and fast-food workers. That's not saying much though, is it. And yes, I agree that it is the individual that counts - so often, however, the individuals with the most to offer have the least to prove. I do wear a flying suit in the Chipmunk, and would advocate instructors and students alike to do the same - that's down to practicality and safety (loose objects, copious oil etc.). In more modern tricycle trainers there's no real need. I would prefer to see instructors looking couth, smart, relaxed and uniform-free.

The worst offender I ever saw was at Stapleford. He came roaring through the gate in a flashy car with a posy number plate, all designer-sunglassed, cotton-shirted and epauletted up. He had his seat reclined back into the Italian racing driver position, his elbow out of the window and one finger on the steering wheel. He blasted his horn to shoo my colleagues and me out of the way and shot off into the distance with a squeal from his tyres. I saw him later giving a nervous-looking student a helicopter lesson.

[slim_slag]

Ah sassenach, but it's all been said before, and it's so much fun :)

Southwest Airline pilots are as professional as they come, but they have great uniform sense over holiday season. They greet you at the door wearing silly red noses, flashing lights all over their hats, and ties which really shouldn't be allowed out during daylight hours.

All good fun, but we all know they know their job, and respect for that isn't diminished because they are dressed up in a way some might consider unprofessional. If anything it makes me fly Southwest more.

We had an instructor who started coming to work wearing bars, he got canned. That was in the US though, and more to do with the fact his attitude didn't fit in with what the customer's at that particular flying school wanted. I am sure he would fit in somewhere else, and would make a competent airline pilot too.

[18greens]

Isn't the biggest reason for instructors wearing some form of uniform or badge is that you can tell they are instructors.

Anyone who has flown at a club for more than a couple of years know that most instructors do not hang around that long and your favourite face for asking questions will not always be there.

At least this way you know the person you are asking the question of is an instructor and not someone who popped along for a coffee.

This is especially true of somewhere like White Waltham with sometimes hundreds of people milling around.

[MLS-12D]

Hi Beechnut:

Personally, I don't think that you have justify wearing a blue woolly pully while flying. I myself have a black one and a green one (courtesy of HM the Queen), and indeed they are reasonably warm, not too bulky, and fairly smart looking. But like you, I never wear them with miltary rank, badges or other insignia.

[Zlin526]

Cat Manuvarwhatever,

Good aeroplane handling skills never did me any harm. What else is there to know for the types of aeroplanes I fly? Social skills to impress the girlfriend? Reading skills to digest the latest copy of Flyer? Domestic skills to make the tea in the flying school kitchen?

Just because my instructor apparently didnt give a $hit about fire safety doesnt mean he didnt know his stuff with the flying controls.

Sorry I obviously forgot that all a modern day pilot needs is the latest GPS and a copy of MS Flight sim 2000 and he's an expert! Oh and an imitation leather pilot briefcase and some epaulettes of course!

:ok:

[BigEndBob]

I'm often ammused how the word professional seems to be associated with wearing a uniform.
A uniform provides a rapid means of identifying certain people in certain situations for example the emergency services. It does not reflect their ability to do the job.
Thus a uniform is useful for prospective students to identify who are instructors.
This would not be required if more instructors were to show a bit more interest in strangers that walk through their flying club 'school' doors.
All that is needed is to be of smart appearance be it shirt, tie, club produced pullover. We don't have to be airline clones.
Be imaginative!

[Runaway Gun]

For my first civvy instructor job, I wore clean presentable clothes. The flying was fun, and we did not pretend to be like Capt Stubings (the Luuuuve Boat).

The next school I worked for, I was given two striper epps. The CFI (the only other pilot) wore four stripes.

The aircraft were small single engine funships.

Still after all this time, the significance of the stripes eludes me. Is there a formal standard?

[Aerobatic Flyer]

I detect a hint of jealousy among the anti-uniform brigade. I can bet you a fiver most of you have wished to have a professional pilot job but never got the chance. there's no point slagging of the fortunate few.

Do you want my address so you can send the fiver?

And if you want to see a lot of very professional flying instructors wearing anything except gold bars, take a trip to this side of the channel.

[Capt. Manuvar]

sassenach
To answer your original question, i don't think uniform has as much effect on students as the instructors' attitude. If 1-in-1000 students have some uniform phobia, i don't think its cause for a massive shake up. Personally i find the instructors at my club(white shirts/black tie/pullover) to be more approachable than a lot of the 'experienced' PPLs(flown 100 taildraggers, been to L2K 2000 times, anti-GPS/ATC/CAA Brigade) you find around the clubhouse.
Uniforms give the wearer some form of authority and i think there is an insignificant minority(low self esteem) who might feel intimidated by an FI in uniform.
Some flying schools especially in the US and helo schools in the UK are part of an FBO. which means the FI may also be a charter/cargo pilot. So one minute they could be doing a t/l in a C152 and the next minute they are flying a learjet full of suits.
Personally i will treat FIs who insist on dressing up with the same amount of caution as i would the 'rebels'.
Zlin526
There is more to flying than handling skills. Navigation skills, aircraft familiarity(there's a thread full of stories of people pulling the wrong levers), R/T skills, AIRMANSHIP, flight planning skills, meteorological knowledge,etc
Capt. manuvar

[Thumpango]

In my PPL training I have had a number of instructors. The one with 4 bars just seemed bored teaching PPL skills and I always thought he was wishing he was somewhere else! My two bar very young instructor was very good and often didn't wear uniform but was required to do so if he was taking people for trial flights, sightseeing trips etc- presumably to inspire confidence in those nervous of flying in small planes.

My best instructors and CFI in Inverness never felt the need to flaunt Gold bars, knew their stuff and were very approachable.

I personally felt slightly initimidated by the 4 bars brigade!

[IO540]

If a flying school is to attract slick clients it needs to have a slick image. This means the employees need to look smart and professional, and behave as such too. This means they shouldn't go around in scruffy clothing, swear etc.

But I think gold bars and such are a bit of a joke. There is no military rank or whatever involved after all. And few people who actually have them for real (airline pilots) won't be PPL instructing unless they are trying to reduce their income below the CSA assessment threshold :O

[MLS-12D]

For whatever it may be worth, here's what I typically wear whilst instructing:

(1) a 16-year-old Tilley hat (http://http://www.tilley.com/detail.asp?catId=&gender=&extractBy=CategoryId&id=1&productNo=T3), to keep the sun off;

(2) a 20-year-old ex-CF 'work dress' shirt (long-sleeved, to keep the sun off);

(3) a pair of Tilley 'classic shorts" (http://www.tilley.com/detail.asp?catId=13&gender=m&extractBy=CategoryId&id=8&productNo=TE20) (to keep cool);

(4) a pair of worn-out slip-on shoes (which my wife calls my "golfing and gliding shoes").

Too intimidating for you? :8

[BeechNut]

MLS-great style!

I share your notions of comfort. I fly for fun but work in technical management (tech services/quality assurance). At the last firm I worked at we were obliged to wear ties. I joked that when they finally joined the 20th century (well it was in the '90s), I would burn all my ties except the ugliest one, which I would keep for weddings and funerals. They did rescind the rule. I didn't quite go that far but got rid of a lot of them. I have no use for the ******s.

Where I work now everyone from the Prez on down dresses casual. We just hired a new manager (he's a Super Cub driver incidentally), but he always shows up to work in a tie. In fact the only person there that does. I wonder how long before his (and my) boss clues him in? My boss can make a t-shirt look like formal wear.

Jeans in winter, shorts in summer (I'm cheap, usually worn-out dockers with the legs chopped off), no socks, sandals, bargain brand polo shirt. I have no problem flying in sandals.

When we do a Young Eagles day or somesuch, I haul out a flight suit I own to impress the kiddies and reassure the mommies...no bars or insignia though.

Mike

[BEagle]

I'd love to turn up at one of those silly blue-and-gold places in some Ruritanian band masters uniform with gold dangly bits on the shoulders and pink strides with gold stripes up the sides just to take the pi$$!!!


Wear what's comfy - if you want to look like a chief customs officer, go ahead. Just wash the damn pullover now and again please!

[Runaway Gun]

Beagle, I have such a suit available for hire if you wish.
It has a touch of patent leather about it though...

[maggioneato]

As a female student eight years ago, I would'nt have been able to keep a straight face if my instructor had turned up covered in gold bars. He would have been intimidated by my laughing. Plain white shirt, tie, dark trousers, plain dark jumper in winter, and nice shiny shoes, sign of a well groomed man, just right, identified him as an Instructor without being over the top. Don't think jeans and T shirt would look very professional.

[BEagle]

Ties and light aeroplanes don't mix! You need to LOOK OUT as much as possible and anything which impedes head movement such as a strangling neck tie is an avoidable hazard. And the solution is NOT a clip on tie - such things are very tacky indeed.....

Shiney shoes aren't much use either - they leave too much of a mark when you're kicking students' backsides

only kidding!!

[Hare O Plane]

Save the stripes for the Airlines!!!! (Why wear more bars than the aeroplane's got seats?!?!?!):confused:

From experience of students being sick, climbing over PA28 C150 and the like all day showing students where to inspect, walking to aeroplanes parked on wet grass, and refuelling your own aeroplane a uniform doesn't last five minutes.

This instructor dresses smart as expected by my CFI (black shoes, trousers, white shirt and a tie........ Never affects my lookout by the way) but most of the clothes I use for instructing come from Accel Stop Distance Available. Cheap enough to throw away when the marks don't wash out!

Come to think of it, in all my years of flying, I dont think I've ever owned a shirt with eppaulettes on it!

Happy landings
HOP

[Capt. Manuvar]

Out of curiosity, does anyone have any evidence to justify the dangers that ties pose to light aviation.
WWII pilots wore ties and i don't recall any accidents or deaths that resulted or anyone complaining about ties affecting their lookout, even though i stand to be corrected.
I'd be careful when handproping if i was wearing a tie though.
Capt. manuvar

[shortstripper]

Depends on the tie ... WW2 pilots wore silk scarfs to help them look around as it stopped chaffed skin. I'd have thought a normal tie in a C150 or the like would be fine, but I too would be very wary if hand propping:uhoh:

SS

[FNG]

Fighter pilots who had their lookout affected by wearing a tie were unable to report this fact on the grounds of being dead.

The spotted cravats, scarves etc sported by pilots of WW2 were adopted in substitution for collars and ties, as it was uncomfortable to wear a collar and tie whilst constantly craning your head around to check the sky behind you. You could stuff your collar and tie into a pocket or a boot in order to be properly dressed if visiting someone else's mess for a swift half and a few gallons of fuel on the way back from splashing the boche (ditto the hat, which explains why Pilot Officer Prune's hat was always so crumpled and battered, as he had to visit several stations on the way home, with a pint at each one, on the occasions when not pranged, as he would invariably be shot up, out of fuel, and lost).

Back on thread: gold bars, uniforms etc: joke! Any PPL stude who chooses a school on the basis of how the instructors are dressed deserves to suffer from "crippling fear" or at least "crippling ridicule" in the cockpit.

[scrambler]

Gold Bars ect. Was neither intimidated or impressed by them. Chose the flying school on merit rather than dress sense.

I think that a UNIFORM should be just that, same across company. one in all in.

My best ever instructor was a farmer and dressed up just a little for his students. Not only was he a great pilot but a great teacher.

Hey you should visit one company here in Australia where they insist that commercial students wear bars and uniforms from day one. Now they wouldn't get my money!

[Polly Gnome]

Some of the best instructors I have flown with were current/retired airline captains (some exRAF) who also flew light aircraft regularly. To a man they all dressed casually - some very casually indeed. There was not a tie in sight.

[Boing_737]

Can I suggest that they dress like other teachers.... tweed sports coat (or corduroy - spelling?) with leather patches:p :} :E

[BEagle]

Only in dreadful working class state schools would a teacher dress in such a manner....

One finds getting one's headset over one's mortar board a right bug.ger. One's gown and hood take up too much space in the average light aeroplane as well!

[StudentInDebt]

School I worked at insisted on a uniform that included epaulettes and a tie. Failure to wear either resulted in being sent home and loosing a day's holiday/pay.

Regardless of whether you think we looked like pratts getting into our C152s to teach S&L with them on, we'd look a damn sight sillier if we lost our jobs over them wouldn't we. I can't see how you'd be taking the piss by turning up in your band masters uniform Beagle, any more than I would turning up at your secret airfield in a growbag to fly an airliner.

My own choice of uniform would be dark jeans, polo shirts, a warm fleece and a waterproof jacket but I don't pay the wages.

ps on hot days we could take our ties off :p

[Gertrude the Wombat]

... if I believe the guy who was lecturing to us last night, is that when you find yourself at a "real" airport it's a lot easier to talk yourself back airside if you look like a pilot.

[The Ugly Fend Off]

doesn't always work. I've been to a few International airports dressed in full dry suit rig etc. and not been able to get back to the aircraft. Infact at one airport I was prevented from leaving the terminal by armed police!

[fudgy2000]

Whats up with you guys!! I want my instructor to look smart and professional. Hopefully their attitude towards their work will be the same aswell!!!!

Fair enough about the gold stripes- I think its rather sad too!!!


What I find the most annoying is CLUB MEMBERS and STUDENTS who dress themselves as INSTRUCTOR-INCLUDING BLUE PULLOVER AND BLACK TIE!!! NOW THEY ARE SAD!!!!!

[mad_jock]

What I find the most annoying is CLUB MEMBERS and STUDENTS who dress themselves as INSTRUCTOR-INCLUDING BLUE PULLOVER AND BLACK TIE!!! NOW THEY ARE SAD!!!!!

Its also asking for trouble as well. I think it was in Sherburn one chap liked to dress the part and a student ended up going solo without being signed out or a briefing given by an instructor.

Student was told by the ops desk to check with an instructor about going solo, student then went to instructor like looking chap with 5 hours under his belt and asked if it was ok for solo today. Said chap was all chuffed someone asked his opinion said yes of course wx is wonderful. Student goes off by themselves.
20mins later all hell lets loose when ops discover student is flying without an auth signature.

Fair enough in a commercial school where everyone knows that a uniform doesn't mean anything. But PPL school no way, the only real reason for a uniform at a PPL school is to allow the instructors to be different from the students thus students shouldn't wear anything even near instructor looking garb. Especially in large schools where there are lots of instructors and students who's paths might only cross once evey couple of months.

Imust admit some uniforms get a bit much CABAIR comes to mind but i actually prefer the PRIMARK chino's and white shirt (tie optional on time of year and personal choice) with fleece but no bars on the shirt. And its compulsory to have a pair of manky shoes, costs way to much ruining good shoes with ****e off the back of the rudder pedals staining and shagging them. If any abuse comes from the student you can always offer to lend them to them for a fee as the shoes had about 800 hours more than the student and might help them go solo :D

MJ