French ATC strike

[fcit]

If aviation would not have enough trouble right now. That`s just what we need....

FRENCH STRIKE
Valid from 05 Dec 2001 to 05 Dec 2001 (released 05 Dec 2001 at 06:54:04)

FRENCH ATS STRIKE ON DECEMBER 05/06/07TH 2001
---------------------------------------------
.
FROM WEDNESDAY DECEMBER 5TH BEGINNING OF NIGHT DUTY (1800 UTC)
UNTIL FRIDAY DECEMBER 7TH END OF NIGHT DUTY (0545 UTC), THERE IS
A HIGH PROBABILITY THAT FRENCH AIR TRAFFIC SERVICES WILL STRIKE.
ACCORDING TO THE FRENCH LAW, THERE WILL BE A MINIMUM SERVICE
PROVIDED.
.
THAT MEANS THAT FLIGHTS INBOUND / OUTBOUND FRENCH AIRPORTS WILL
ONLY BE PERMITTED IF DESIGNATED BY FRENCH DGAC. ONLY SOME AIRPORTS
WILL BE ACCESSIBLE (AS PER NOTAM TO BE ISSUED BY THE END OF THE
DAY), THESE MAY NOT BE PLANNED AS ALTERNATES BY FLIGHTS NOT
DESIGNATED IN THE SPECIAL LIST. ALL FPLS / RPLS FOR FLIGHTS NOT
PERMITED SHALL BE CANCELLED BY THE AO.
.
A MINIMUM NUMBER OF SECTORS WILL BE STAFFED FOR HANDLING
OVERFLYING
TRAFFIC (APPROXIMATELY 50 PER CENT OF THE USUAL CAPACITY).
AIRCRAFT OPERATORS SHOULD REFER TO NOTAM A3108 ISSUED 041339
LFFAYNYX QUOTED BELOW.
.
NNNNZCZC 1346
GG LFFAZDZX 041339 LFFAYNYX (A3108/01A02 NOTAMN
Q)LFXX/QXXXX/IV/NBO/E /000/999/4504N00053E526
A)LFMM LFFF LFEE LFRR LFBB B)0112051800 C)0112070545
E)BECAUSE 0F A STRIKE C0NCERNING THE CIVIL AVIATION SERVICES,
PERTURBATIONS WILL AFFECT ATS, AIS AND COM SERVICES IN FRANCE.
.
1-AER0MEDICAL EVACUATION FLIGHTS, SAR MISSIONS, GOVERNMENTAL
*
FLIGHTS AND NATIONAL DEFENCE FLIGHTS WILL BE PROVIDED IN ANY
CASE.
.
2-SPECIAL PROVISIONS WILL BE REQUIRED FOR OUTBOUND AND INB0UND
FLIGHTS IN THE FRENCH AIRSPACE:
-THUS IN APPLICATION 0F LEGAL MEASURES A MINIMUM SERVICE WILL
ENABLE SOME FLIGHTS ESPECIALLY SPECIFLED TO OPERATE 0N CERTAIN
FRENCH AER0DROMES.
.
C0NSEOUENTLY. THE USERS MUST SYSTEMATICALLY CANCEL ALL PLN, RPL OR
FPL FOR FLIGHTS WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN ESPECIALLY SPECIFIED FOR
DEPARTURE OR ARRIVAL AT THESE AERODR0MES.
-IFR TAKE-OFFS AND LANDINGS 0N FRENCH AERODR0MES WILL 0NLY BE
AUTHORISED FOR THE FLIGHTS ESPECIALLY SPECIFIED.
.
3-0VERFLYLNG WILL BE SUBJECT T0 APPR0PRIATE ATFM MEASURES
ACC0RDING
TO USUAL PR0CEDURES.
.
4-THE FOLL0WING AERODROMES WILL ONLY BE PLANNED AND USED AS
ALTERNATE AERODROMES:
LFPG, LFPO, LFRG, LFRS, LFLC, LFLL, LFML, LFMN, LFBO, LFBD,
LFBI,
LFBL, LFSB, LFSB, LFKJ, LFKJ, LFKB, LFKC.
.
5-ON THE OTHER AERODROMES, ATS SERVICES MAY NOT BE PROVIDED. IN
THIS CASE, THE AIRSPACES CONTROLLED BY THESE SERVICES DO NOT
EXIST ANYMORE.
.
6-THE ACCESS OF VFR FLIGHTS TO CLASS-D AIRSPACES MAY BE SUBJECT TO
RESTRICTIONS OR INTERDICTIONS.
.
7-OPERATORS WILL OBTAIN USEFUL INFORMATION FROM THE DEPARTURE
AERODROME FMP OR CFMU. IN ADDITION, OPERATORS MAY CONTACT THE
ATC
*
OPERATIONAL CELL ON PHONE NUMBER: +33 1 69 57 73 00.
.
FMD BRUSSELS ON BEHALF OF SCTA - FRANCE

[ghost-rider]

Typical -

The industry is suffering badly, jobs are going left right and centre and the bloody French idiots pull a strike that affects us all !!!

Muppets ! :mad:

[recceguy]

yes... I am french pilot, and I hate those f****g ATC people (do you know that by putting themselves on strike 10 years ago they got the equivalence of University degrees, exams that people need years of painful work to get through th enormal system)

[CarbonBrake]

Well folks

Being smart, sharp and customer friendly has never been and will never be a priviledge for most of the French ATC. But what do you expect from the so called "grand nation" who is still struggling to introduce standard english ATC-language within their airspace and on the airports for safety reasons ?Hopefully, those responsible arrogant loosers one day will pay for all the mess.

Cheers

CB

[GoJetJock]

What more can you say. They're FRENCH!!!!

[Herod]

And if a certain President (sorry, P.M.) has his way, we'll be sharing a single currency with them. Gets off soapbox.

[JJflyer]

Hey hey hey... Whats up with all these negative ways.

Take a flight from LEMG (Malaga, Spain) to EFHK (Helsinki, Finland). Normally about 4 hours in MD11. Now you go either directly East and through Italian airspace and then up through Swiss and Austrian or Eastern European airspace. Alternatively you could route West over Portugal and England then Dutch and so on. Either way this adds minimum of an hour to the flight.

I have lost count on how many times Paris ATC has been on strike. No symphaty what so ever towards those dorks. Nice cozy Government job and so on.
Old Jaques should do what Ronny the Raygun did in the 80's and fire the whole bunch. I am sure that there are plenty on english speaking pilots unemployed that would be willing to take a position in ATC for the time being. Put it this way, yapping in french in busy airspace would be a goner :D

[angrycat]

IF they are French Government employees then I say sue the French Government for lost revenue. Not that they would take much notice though.

[ALTSEL]

It's not as if they are any good at what they do!

If it were NATS then I could understand it but a bunch of Frog "safe job" goverment employees, expect the usual shrugs! Were allright jacque!!

[CUNIM]

When you consider that the union CGT, I think is almost communist and the poor Frogs do not want an open sky 'cause their military would have to get their act together and so on and so on and so on :mad: :mad: :mad: well I suppose that you pilots of airlines know that the radar screens of the civil controllers do not see the mil!! The controllers are supposed to keep you on the centreline unless they coordinate specially. The whole thing is a shambols :mad: :mad: Get their act together? you are joking.

[Eff Oh]

Absolutely disgraceful!! :mad: It really pisses me off! Just inspiring the public to fly again....NOT!!!!!! :mad:
Eff Oh.

[ 05 December 2001: Message edited by: Eff Oh ]

[recceguy]

A little french-bashing, isn'it ? personally I prefer union-bashing, or ATC bashing, which should be more relvant to the topic.

Carbonbrake and GoJetJock... the arrogant losers still build airliners, isn'it? and also choppers, and they launch rockets in space from their own territory...

:p

[CUNIM]

Regretably this is French bashing as they invented the problem. No French military aircraft are visible on the civil screens in France as they are deliberately suppressed. Of course they prefer their own system as it suits them - the mere fact that it does not suit anybody else is of no consequence. Just because they lose a third of their separation standards since they stick to their centrelines, just because shifts are timed not to interfere with breakfast and dinner, good grief I could go on ad infinitum :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Faire d'income]

This action is unbelieveably unsensitive and untimely . A previous post called for the firing of the strikers and I would endorse that. French ATC have screwed us around for years and deserve a dose of the reality that the rest of us live in.

Carbonbrake GoJetJock and AltSel do you think that jingoism is the solution to everything. You're way of tunnel-vision is what creates strikes like this in the first place. :mad:

[Cisco Kid]

Yes and the food & wine are excellent,women attractive and feminine,cost of living reasonable(outside Paris)a thriving film industry,innovative train and car design,superb highways (at a cost).I could go on ;but ATC´!well it´s all been said.In the end just too many aircraft fighting for too little airspace in Europe,fewer for the moment of course.

But strikes of this nature P#$$ me off.

[Viscount Sussex]

recceguy
Some people are just ignorant. I wouldn't lose my sleep over it. Leave the thread and read something else worth reading!! People sometimes have nothing to say, but they still talk rubbish. :p

[flyblue]

Well Viscount, at least two posts made some sense ;)

[1261]

Does anyone know what the strike is all about? The media doesn't seem to be giving reasons.

[StressFree]

This situation is outrageous and, dare I say it, typically French. They always purport to be an integral, nay vital, member of the EU but whenever there is a problem the national interest comes before the community interest.
In the UK we now have to regulary use part of our motorway system to park lorries stranded by strikes in the French ports, they ignore EU law (they still wont accept British beef) and as for the use of English and French in ATC its simply stupid. As an aside though you have got to admire a country that has so many good points and is so pround of its national identity, (tricolour flags everywhere) and the wine and women.............
I just wish the UK government would look after our interests with as much vigour as the French.


:cool: :cool:

[Deadleg]

Does anyone have an idea of why they are striking?

[CUNIM]

1261

to quote a previous note

"The strike will coincide with a two-day meeting of EU transport ministers in Brussels and is over the planned liberalisation of Europe's air transport sector.

Air traffic control services would be opened up to competition should the changes come into force."

There are entrenched positions there to protect - thus strikes.

[squeaker]

poor ol' french atc getting a bashing here, perhaps a few words in support:
1) I'm not sure who's striking this time, but ususally it's the support technicians/engineers who down tools, not the controllers, and they usually manage to pull the plugs on a few bits of vital kit just before they leave! Nice!
2)The French language thing, which I agree is very dangerous, is something forced upon them by law, not just a whim as it is in Spain/Italy/Greece etc. There is a whole French government department devoted to the protection of the French Language, and this edict comes from them. I believe that Air France pilots objected and even unilaterally tried to speak English to French ATC, but were warned against it by their management! They also dictate, for example, that at least 50% of French broadcast radio music is French Language, which is why nobody listens to it!
3) When you're flogging home after that night TFS, which ATC is it that generally gives you the level you want, and a direct routing to the other side of their FIR?

Yes, French ATC are a pain at times, but no worse than some and better than many IMHO.
In case you think this is one sided, I'd like to point out that their beer is cr@p. Thank you.

[Whalerider]

Yes, the French go on strike - again !!!
Yet BA still gives them 2 free tickets each every year, even though 'The World's Favourite' still won't give UK ATCO's ID90 !
Maybe that's where we are going wrong ?!?!

[CarbonBrake]

RECCEGUY

Completely agree. Good engineering skills and aerospace companies in the big nation.
But launching rockets from their own territory ???? You do not mean by any chance this former little colonialistic piece of jungle in South America ? However, take the chance and send the crappy French ATC into orbit with a bunch of Ariane 5. Let them scare the aliens up there on orbit level 100000 and not our daily operation.

Oh, by the way, the best Carbon Brakes are coming from SEP !Yes it's a french company !

:D :D :D

CB

[recceguy]

yes, gentlemen - I agree with you all, what could I say more? In my mind they should be fired, all of them from the ATC union - but you know, it's unfortunately a big problem we have in our country, all those "transportation strikes" (railways, metro, buses..and ATC is just part of the big show)
Many irate french people will quote Mrs Thatcher, Mr Reagan or the Aussies in the past for knowing how to deal with an excessive strike - because yes, french people too are suffering from those actions.
Once again, some of the previous comments were a little bit outside the scope of ATC problems.
And military traffic in France? yes, like flight test traffic it's outside the scope of civilian ATC, they hate it and would like to take it over (to create more nuisance with future strikes ?)
Like it or not, that's the way it is - but it's related to history, and also dealing with decent Air force, Fleet Air Arm and Flight Test centres... anybody up to the challenge?

[crackerjack]

Pprune to the rescue!!

French ATC on strike - how else could you tell?

If I had a pound (euro) for every "I call you back" I could retire tomorrow.

[Wanula Dreaming]

The official reason is that they are against a common European airspace structure, because that would reduce safety... :confused:

Yeah right ! :mad:

Really sad people these French ATC controllers. :( http://community.theunderdogs.org/smiley/celeb/kermit.gif

[greg1]

I hear that the reason for the strike is EU plans to eventually privatise the whole of the service in all member-states, which in turn would inevitably lead to "streamlining" operations and lay-offs.

(sorry, no check-speller)

[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: ThinkRate ]

[bow5]

French ATC strike. Is it that time of year again already? :rolleyes: :p

[ 06 December 2001: Message edited by: bow5 ]

[Wanula Dreaming]

"streamlining" operations

That is something completely unknown to the French, so hence their reaction.

http://community.theunderdogs.org/smiley/armed/behead.gif

[Margaret Thatcher]

This is exactly the kind of 'continental'childishness I fought against in the eighties.

Margaret Thatcher say:

Put all Garlic eaters up against the wall.

Give France to the Gurkas and lets get down to business. :D :D :eek:

[gear-up]

I find it very hard to understand why a group in our industry would ( could) be so selfish at a time like this, when most airlines are scraping the barrel for every cent,Does anybody know what the hell they want this time? :confused:

[ATC Watcher]

Oh my God ! here we go again .
I am not going to comment on the comments to say that the old entente cordiale is still not on today..
The discussions so far Looked like a Monthy Python fortress taking...( for those who saw the movie..) .

Some information :
The reason for the strike is the discusions on the " Single sky " initiative from the EU pushed by the commissionner, Miss Loyola de Palacio , a Spanish lady .The presidency of the EU is going to go to Spain on 1.1. 02. They fear that things will move faster by then.
They fear that with the Single Sky plans ,ATC would be open to concurrence and be privatised ( like in the UK) They are against this and strike to support their Minister ( a communist ) who is opoosed to ATC privatisation.
.

To make things a bit more comnplicated, in France there are at leat 5 Unions representing the controllers. The main union (54% controllers vote for it but only 17% pay their dues, another French particularity ) SNCTA is not on strike, the 4 others are.
SNCTA said they support the idea but think this is not the moment to strike. ( I could agree wih that !)
Anyway it stops tomorrow morning.

Now where did I put this bottle of Medoc?....

[fcit]

BBC:
Aware that the strike was coming, most passengers took the decision to travel by other means, or at other times, rather than wait in departure halls.


Before long pax will find travelling by other means more attractive than flying and ultimately this will also mean that we will need less controllers. Now, if that won`t be a reason for another big strike.

[rossmcentaggart]

Why does everybody get so worked up about this?

Remember its the FRENCH were talking about here..!!

[halo]

So, how would you feel if the UK air traffic controllers went on strike??

[Click Clack]

What fcuks me off is that the militant frogs always have a major effect on us Brits.

ATCers
Truckers
Dockers
Farmers

[barrold]

Whether it's right or wrong, they are only protecting their interests. As do all of us, and I include pilots in that.

[sabenapilot]

They are not only protecting THEIR interests, but also OUR interests!

Imagine a single PRIVATISED EU ATC!
It would lead to dramas within a few years!
You just have to look at how well (dis)organized the British Railways are after less then 10 years of private management!
Not to forget the hundreds of dead we have seen over the last few years...
No wonder the Labour government in London has to renationalize it! (Although they call it differently now; 3rd way vocabulary that is of course :D)

Margaret Thatcher,
do I see that correctly?
do you actually say you are living in Europe? :eek: I feel that should say at least UK, or preferably even USA... :D

[Wanula Dreaming]

Sure tolipanebas

Imagine a single PRIVATISED EU ATC!
It would lead to dramas within a few years!

Let´s take Sabena as an example of what governments pooring billions into inefficient semi privatized outfits can lead to....

Maybe you´re right that privatization is not the answer BUT, someting has to be done to this incredibly inefficient European airspace structure.

Why don´t these bloody Eurocrats copy and paste the FAR-AIM and rename it JAR-AIM ?

It would save a lot of time and would make a lot more people happy.

The only people left crying would be those working for inefficient semi govenmental institutions, like French AT controllers.

[bow5]

Wouldn't be suprised if they're priming their Exocets right now and picking a nice juicy target at Dover to hit in protest about our side of the channel being 20% more polluted than theirs.

Just wait till we share a currency with the sods (god I hope not). Then the fun will really start. :eek:

[bagpuss lives]

I realise the timing of the strike was abysmal - can't argue with that at all.

But I can't help but feel that if all of the people who were totally opposed to NATS privatisiaton had of used, or gone further along the road of insustrial action - then the company may not have been in the "mess" (allegedly) that it's in now.

At least the French will actually do something pro-active to protect themselves and their rights and ultimately their jobs.

We, as in NATS as a generalisation, just sat back and let the government take the PPP out of us - rightly or wrongly.

And I find the blatent right-wing xenophobia on display VERY disturbing. We are *supposed* to be intelligent professionals :rolleyes:

[Wanula Dreaming]

And I find the blatent right-wing xenophobia on display VERY disturbing. We are *supposed* to be intelligent professionals

So when Europe wants to standardize it´s airspace structure, the French (with their open mind !?) are against this and make everybody suffer.
Almost the whole of Europe has accepted English as the only aviation language, exept the French.

WAKE UP ! Who is xenophobic here ? They ought to get a good spanking !

http://community.theunderdogs.org/smiley/noughty/spank.gif

[ 08 December 2001: Message edited by: Wanula Dreaming ]

[sabenapilot]

It is not about the language, not about the fact that there will be one European airspace structure...
It's all about the fact that it will be much easier to privatize ATC services that way.

BTW,
France too uses English in their ATC communications, unless both pilot and controler agree to use French. I don't know why you guys always keep on complaining about this; it just sounds so arrogant you know that?
If I were you I'd be very embarrased by the fact that hundreds of millions of Europeans alwas have to do an effort to adapt to your language, although you are the one that is visiting them!

BTW, although not that commonly used, the French multilingual system may officially also be used in Belgium (Brussels, Liege and Charleroi) and Switzerland (Geneva).
Spain and Italy have a similar rule for their local languages.

Although I know this multilingual situation might be very confusing to a native English speaker, I have always found it very strange that in Holland, Germany or Scandinavia local people always use a foreign language to communicate with each other on ATC...
Have you ever thought how much more natural(easier and clearer) it would be for them simply to use their own language too?

[The Guvnor]

Only one group worse than the French, and that's the bl00dy Belgians! :mad: :eek: :mad:

When will they wake up and realise this is the 21st Century - no more cozy government subsidised jobs for life; they actually have to go out and work hard to earn their living - not get it handed to them on a plate.

I agree re JAROPS though ... what a waste of time and energy - only the Brits and the Germans (as usual) are abiding by the rules!

[Few Cloudy]

sabenapilot backwards,

Have you flown over the States? Long direct clearances/one sqwawk all the way/few frequency changes/few calls to be made = pilot heaven.

Why might this be? Could it possibly be that it's because they are one authority for the whole area? Couldn't it just be that this is what is needed - desperately needed in Europe?

Whether the French or any other employees see a personal disadvantage here is very much secondary in my opinion.

[Wanula Dreaming]

BTW,
France too uses English in their ATC communications, unless both pilot and controler agree to use French. I don't know why you guys always keep on complaining about this; it just sounds so arrogant you know that?

Maybe you and those ARROGANT French &"§%!/%&´s can get it through their thick skulls that not everybody in this world speaks French and that therefore a lot of situational awareness is LOST !

A few weeks ago a French controller from Marseille broadcasted a Sigmet ONLY in French. When a Lufthansa pilot asked the controller to translate this in English, he ignored Lufthansa ! This is not the way Air Traffic Services should be. It´s Air Traffic Sh?t !

I have always found it very strange that in Holland, Germany or Scandinavia local people always use a foreign language to communicate with each other on ATC... Well, you probably also find it strange that a company goes bankrupt after decades of losses. :D :D :D Welcome to the real world !

http://community.theunderdogs.org/smiley/armed/hotbounce2.gif

Why make things complicated (like spelling Sabena Pilot backwards :D ) when life can be so much easier ?

[CUNIM]

Just throwing another little thought into the pond for Tolipanebas. The CANAC ACC where you are is Flemish and the APP/TWR is francophone I believe. There would seem to be a language barrier there too. Yes I know that it is tiresome, but the relatively simple grammar in English does provide an advantage. How many Francophones speak Flemish? not many :rolleyes: Ik ben en tweetaliger, bent U?

[BahrainLad]

Sabenapilot - there have not been 'hundreds' of deaths on British Railways since privatisation - try about 60.

In fact, the accident rate is going down, not up.

Would you argue that a privatised airline (such as BA) is any more dangerous than a state-owned one (such as AF, or SV....!). If the railways in this country were free to set their own fares, close unprofitable routes and free themselves from governmental interference, they would be successful. And don't try and argue that SNCF/RFF is successful - if you want to, we can start off with the level of debt of RFF!!!!

As for the French.....when will they realise that French culture is not the most sophisticated in the world!?

[Wanula Dreaming]

It´s about time those damn red/green, left wing, neo-communists union fanatics stop their crusade against privatisation.

Unfortunately they are ALL over Europe, not just in France.

Time to get off their lazy butts and start being competitive !

Want to see the results of governments running businesses, look at Sabena or the former USSR ! They couldn´t hack it in the real world either.

[sabenapilot]

Sorry to help you out of a dream guys, but if we'd go by the number of native speakers in Europe, we'd all have to use GERMAN as ATC language; how about that London? :D
Or what about Spanish? (on a global scale more people speak Spanish as first language then English...)

I fly in France now ( =>Air Lib) and yes most ATC, checklists etc. all are in French, (even when we go as far as to Tahiti) and I have no poblems with that! To me (my native language is Dutch) it's really all the same whether I use English or French.
The advantage of being culturally flexible that is...

Oh well, arrogance is often just a way to cover up ignorance, isn't it?
Ah, l'arrogance, c'est souvant à cause d'ignorance; n'est pas?
Och, arrogantie verbergt vaak onwetendheid, is het niet?

[wallabie]

I have to say I am always in awe when I read posts regarding the French.
It is always an outpour of xenophobic full of hatred ........garbage and I really get a kick out of it because you poor souls are only digging a hole in your stomach !
What interests me though is that a week ago a Swiss airliner crashed because most obviously its crew stuffed up and the tone on PPrune was very civil, and I was wondering what it would have been like in the case of a french aircraft. Lucky us it wasn't ! Peeeewww !
Now, just a tad of a reminder kind thick skulled gents :
The right to strike is written in the constitution and until parliament makes it illegal you are going to live with it. I suggest you buy a truckload of anti acid tablets.
The purpose of a strike is precisely to annoy the public so as to get a leverage on governement to get what you want because all talks have failed. I mean, get your head out of your toush and look at Australia. They even elected a union leader as one of the longest seving Prime Minister. Aussies can' t be that wrong !!!
This strike did affect us too.......ya know ? But as I said, it's the law as the use of french on the frequency as by the way the case for Spain, Italy, Greece.........and the whole of South America without forgetting Russia. This doesn't worry me one bit.
I agree it is a bit difficult to understand why on earth these people did go on strike but my guess is that you tarts don't really get a stuff; bashing and puking your bile is what gives you the kick. Go for it boys but I think getting laid by a Mademoiselle would bring you equal release of tension as well as a lot more pleasure, but then we each have our thing.
Just this morning I was reading in the Sunday paper that starting as from next year winging poms will be allowed to go to France to get what would undoubtly be elected surgery in Britain, all of that at the cost to the NHS. All of that riding trains that leave on time and don't kill you and eating food that don't leave you walking sideways thinking you're Admiral Nelson. You ungreatfull lot, you should be on your knees kissing our feet. Would I love to be a surgeon and have one of you under my little scalpel ! :D

[ 09 December 2001: Message edited by: wallabie ]

[sabenapilot]

Very well said Wallabie,

I too find it very interesting to see how these guys always say to others:
"You'd better adapt to the GLOBAL standards soon" whereas these GLOBAL standards are often nothing more then their local standards which were also adapted by only a few other European countries like Scandinavia, Holland, Germany, Austria and in some isolated ex-colonies like Singapore, Hong Kong (although things are rapidly changing there too now that the Brits are out...)
Seems these guys always forget that 15 or 20% of the world is not GLOBAL at all!

Wallabie, you say you suggest them to buy a truckload of anti-acid tablets...
The problem is of course that their social (un)security is in no financial position whatsoever to pay for those truckloads, and since they are all so well paid under their no labour rules, no labour restictions totalitarian freemarket economic system, they can not affort to buy them themselves.

Oh well, let them think they are Nelson; we know why that is, don't we? It's in their meat...

[Fonck]

Hey guys,

Don't mention the war ! :D

Just for fun:
Q:guess what is the English King's devise ???

A :Dieu est mon Droit, Honnis soit qui mal y pense.


So what ?

---------------------------------------------Look through the window :eek:

[BIG E]

wally

your posting smacks of hypocrisy,you accuse the british of xenophobia then go off on one
and start slagging the brits off,kettle and pot springs to mind,which one are you?

[Capt PPRuNe]

Sorry but acute thread drift leaves me no alternative but to close this one giving those of you with lots of pent up anger time to go lie down in your cots and play with some toys for a few hours. Trust me, it'll do you a world of good!