View Full Version : Hellasjet A320 over paris no com for 30min??

25th Dec 2003, 09:06
Maybe just a rumour but heard that HellasJet(new operator from LGAV), had A320 flying in French airspace on route to CDG "quiet" for 30 mins and fighters were scrambled to intercept!!

Anyone ??

25th Dec 2003, 20:07
Can't tell you anything about this specific case. Not an uncommon occurence. Our unit has been involved in a couple of similar scrambles in the last couple of months. There are a number of reasons why this happens. Some are technical, and others just down to poor airmanship and awareness (such as speakers selected with very low volume - and not noticing that they haven't heard any r/t activity in 30 minutes whilst overflying busy European airspace during peak daytime hours). Has been happening for years. However, this day and age, with the terrorist potential, such "silent" flights have to be visually inspected.

30th Dec 2003, 07:48
AVMAN thks for info , my querry then stands as to if any actions / reports are made against airlines or aviators to prevent more happenings?? Especialy if fighters have to be dispatched!!

30th Dec 2003, 15:32
The event will be logged and investigated by the appropriate authorities. Of course, we in the front line will never get to hear the outcome!

30th Dec 2003, 16:29
I do not know about that incident, but what I can confirm to you is a level bust coming out of Gatwick. It caused an RA for us, we had to climb to avoid them, and we gave an RA to another a/c. When Gatwick director got hold of them to query the incident the pilots replying were very rude to him. Do not know mate but not a very professional image. I have not seen them since in Gatwick, and I do not know where they come from, but with such clowns upfront they better keep away from UK airspace before they kill someone.

30th Dec 2003, 22:49
skyslave ,
could you please confirm , are you referring to Hellasjet on the R/A incident ?

31st Dec 2003, 05:23
Otrex yes, I do confirm, Hellasjet caused havoc over the congested Gatwick airspace as they did not follow the climb restrictions on their sid. The point I was making was that after Gatwick director called them to let them know of the problem they had caused they were rude on the radio, and completely unaware of the sid climb restrictions. Mistakes can happen, ignorance is undesirable, but arrogance is dangerous especialy on the flight deck of a modern aircraft.

31st Dec 2003, 08:04
Absolutely , can't agree more.
You know what, suprises me sometimes how strict the authorities and training departments can be with the british operators , while the "visitors" get away with murder.
We get all the talk about noise, continuous descents, rate of climb or descent reduction when approaching your assigned level (which are all very nice and correct) and at the same time the visiting operators can bust levels and be rude as well (a minority of them I must add)
Years ago I used to operate to swiss airports regularly and the swiss airport authorities were very keen on sending us plotted charts and reports on even minor sid infringements. Anyone knows whether thats the way british authorities are dealing with foreign airlines?

31st Dec 2003, 08:31

With all due repect, I'm can't even remotely see what relevance your post has here. And naming an operator like that isn't very professional is it.

I'm there are many people about here that could fill pages and pages of the level busts they have seen, and chances are, your operator (if applicable) may very well be one.

31st Dec 2003, 09:03
Hey Skyslave,
Have you ever operated out of Thessalonica or Samos in the middle of a Thunderstorm on a cold winters night? NO radar and all procedure!
Shit happens and we can't all be perfect. Let it pass you by and move on!
I have had this many times in the London zone as have many of us. Major carriers included!
This is why you are paid to stay on your toes!
Have a good New Year!

Rwy in Sight
31st Dec 2003, 19:25

Given Hellas Jet crews have been trained and flown for a large part of their carrier on a procedural environment. Also Greece has a collission free atc history despite adopting Radar separation some 5 years ago, and having to cope with very heavy traffic between Europe and Middle East and Africa.

I fail to see how Hellas Jet pilot messed a climb clearance particularly flying an A320.

Happy new year with health and money .

Rwy in Sight

31st Dec 2003, 22:28
Rwy in Sight, thank you. Happy Holidays and Happy New Year to everyone.
Roxy, I have only operated to and from the previous Athens Airport, not the new one. Never to Thessaloniki, and never to Samos
Jericho, I was not shaming anyone on pprune, I was only stating the facts. Hellasjet pilots shamed themselves with their RT conduct and their behaviour on the radio and they did not need anyones assistance to embarass their company.
My posting was not to question Greek pilot's training, their flying abilities, or the country's ATC standards and safety history.
I did some research on their web site, and they are a new company, they just started over the summer, so they are not an old company with a proven record. They only fly to three destinations and they only have three aircraft.
My point was that they were rude and unapologetic to Gatwick director. They were arrogant and tried to blame Gatwick for their missunderstanding. (The madame on clearance delivery told me to climb 70, so leave me alone it is your fault.) was one of the comments. The RT is not the place to have an open discussion, nor is it proffesional to blame anyone. We can only show our company's ethos by what we say on the RT and other operators can only judge our operation by the way we conduct our RT.
Happy Landings everyone

31st Dec 2003, 22:43
I'm with you on this one Skyslave. It is very unprofessional to argue on the R/T but even more so to not read your SID plate properly and blast off into the London TMA :eek: .............

If anything this has alerted me to keep an ear open for "Hellasjet". Is that their call sign?

Roxy, I'm not sure I understand your point about operating in Greek airspace, no radar etc. I've done it (at night, in thunderstorms :eek: ) and it certainly can be demanding - more so than flying a SID out of LGW in a Bus with radar cover.

Happy New Year everyone.

A4 :)

1st Jan 2004, 08:00
I do not know about that incident, but what I can confirm to you is a level bust coming out of Gatwick

I'll repeat again:

With all due repect, I'm can't even remotely see what relevance your post has here

Sure, you're stating the facts. I'm not detracting from that. And there is never an excuse for arguing over the R/T. But what does it have to do with a no-com over Paris? Sorry if I'm being a little obstinant.

And I stand by what I said above as well. No need to start a "I had an incident involving XYZ operator" thing. It's not a nice game to play. Also, can I direct you to a little notification at the bottom of the page? You can confirm?! Sounds like something a journo would say!

1st Jan 2004, 18:15
Jerricho, Happy New Year to you aswell.
With the audacity you are defending them I would thing you work for them, (especialy when you wake up at 7 in the morning to edit your posting, or maybe it is that you live in Greece and 7 in the morning UK time is 10 Greek time.) Anyway, the title of the posting says "Hellasjet A320 over Paris no com for 30 min" This title to me, means that someone else has noticed, or heard of them having Communications problems. In my small mind it said hey this is a recurring theme in just a couple of days. Communication problems in Paris, RT problems in London. That was the connection I saw.

Why do you think a Journo would care about this particular incident so much, what is it that you know that the rest of us do not know. Every day on PPrune stories come up, others true, others not about one operator or another. I would not have even posted it here had it not been for the existance of Hellajet posting on PPRUNE

I am not going to continue this issue any further, if you want more explanations pm me and we can talk further

1st Jan 2004, 19:24
I'm not going to bother with a PM........I'll put it here.

Ummm, stick around for a bit and you'll learn I'm not a pilot, and I'm not Greek either.

If you want to talk facts, there is a scheduled Hellas flight each evening into LHR, and while their English isn't outstanding, it's far better than some operators. Personally, I have never had a problem with them. But this is all beside the point.

As Avman described, there could be various reasons for an extended period of no communication between ATC and a jet. BA had major problems with sleeping recievers, especially into Heathrow in the late downwind position, which wasn't the most favourable of places. To attempt to even draw an inference between this and ONE crew's inability to comply with a SID is folly indeed, especially for a professional pilot.

I'll make a deal with you................I'll not make any inferenced about you sounding like a journo if you stop trying to hijack threads with whatever little crusade you feel you have to achieve.

(BTW - (especialy when you wake up at 7 in the morning to edit your posting, or maybe it is that you live in Greece and 7 in the morning UK time is 10 Greek time.) Very narrow minded. Great thing this thing the Internet. Do you need that explained to you as well?)

3rd Jan 2004, 08:32
Joining my London ATC collegue I have never had any problems with HellasJet and also struggle to remember them ever flying into LGW, only the regular flight into LHR every day.

If you want to name and shame airlines that go RTF potential fail for 10 mins or more, get out the A-Z of airlines and start typing EVERY entry you find as they all do it from time to time. As for a TCAS RA - they also happen for many reasons, most not even any error involved, just a climb vs descent rate closure being too quick. If the problem was serious then forms would be filled and the relevent agencies would be dealing with it anyway.

but with such clowns upfront they better keep away from UK airspace before they kill someone.

fantastic assumption, cannot wait for you to check in on my frequency :ouch: :suspect: :ooh: :bored: :hmm:

4th Jan 2004, 18:20
I wonder how professional the authors of certain posts, that I read in here, might be, when they refer to unidentified rumors for an airline carrier, with comments such as…clowns and potential killers!

When a comment, post or statement for a specific Air-Carrier is made, should be considered as professional, ONLY if it’s:

1. Dully signed by the author
2. Stating proven facts
3. Describes the incident in details and in full (by the way did the authorities or any airline have filled any incident declaration, so far, for the mentioned airline?)
4. Being precise and obviously polite!

Any other post as such of PPL Mr. Chauvinist Anonymous, should be treated as … at least strange!

Happy New Year!

4th Jan 2004, 20:02
In addition to evening ATH - LHR service, Hellas also has daily ATH - LGW service, ETA about 1000.

rookie skypilot
4th Jan 2004, 22:07
Skyslave has a good point: rudenes on the r/t flags arrogance in the cockpit, and arrogance in the cockpit has been shown to be a big factor in numerous major disasters.
R/t silence for 30 mins in busy skies sounds more like tiredness/distraction in the cockpit, which can be no less dangerous.
Happy, and safe, New Year!!

6th Jan 2004, 19:49
I heard the cpt involved in both incidents in Paris and Gatwick is the same person.
Anyone care to comment10 g :ugh:

11th Jan 2004, 02:11
he is the same guy that involved in a incident in MAN 2 years ago after overshooting twice an approach in NEW!! where everyboby else was landing!!!!, diverting to MAN where he told the pax that he will try it again in to NEW after taking a breath!!! pax then called the media and police using their mobiles (AXON AIRLINES summer 2001) the funny thing is that the same guy is the head of flight ops for hellas jet!!!

14th Jan 2004, 23:50
Unfortunately it was not the same.The captain involved over Paris was the same in MAN (2001)who is now F.O.D. with Hellasjet.!!!
The others involved in Gatwick,Paris (two flat tires),Athens(one flat tire),Boardux(forget to desarm the door on a ferry flight) ,over PULLA going into the thunderstorm with clear wx around,are totaly deferent persons .Don't ask what the Hellenic CAA is doing.
A few months ago they had an official claim about one of their captains concerning the privious expirience(total 2000 hours as co-pilot on turboprop domestic flights and 400 hours as co-pilot on ERJ) and after a route check evrything was normal.I am afraid this are only a few incidents that they have come out.!!!!

15th Jan 2004, 00:22
hi all

i was flying in greece for 2 years and i have seen a lot of stange things going on . but saying that they had no radio contact for 30 min is stange ???
i have seen british airways cross greece from north to south and not talking to anybody for 1.5 hours . ( there was a report from Cyprus controler).

happy new year

25th Feb 2004, 07:17
What will be next?????
A few days ago the Hellas Jet A320 took off from Athens and they forgot the safety pin on the nose gear.
I think there has been a great number of incidents in a such a small time of operations.

26th Feb 2004, 18:08
No. I'm gonna have to get my diary out. It can't be new year again; I havn't finished paying for the last one!