Air Atlanta Made Answer For Its Methods (Merged)

[yes,no,yes]

Big things happening in a small island?!?!

Wow, after all things can really change for the better the for people of aviation. I just got the inspiring news from my buddy that one of the forefronts in “aviation slavery” namely Air Atlanta will finally be made to answer for its dark methods. Inquiry into their affairs and operation firstly made by the Icelandic pilots union, has revealed a dark picture, so dark it has now opened the eyes of the media and apparenty even of the ice-congress. And I understand this is all happening “as we speak”. Surely they have managed to grow into a big corporation but that has been done by forcing almost all their pilots to work outside a union, offering ridiculous salary and absolutely no basic benefits. Its not only money this time, but basic human rights. Sure, it must have made a few people very rich, but made a whole profession bleed at the same time by forcing the living standard of pilots down the drain. That way, they have managed to underbid projects for years and making it impossible for other companies to match their offers, companies that othervise try to take good care of their people. The evil thing is by being let to do so unhindered, AA and similar operators are shaping the worldwide landscape for future aviators. They have forced almost all pilots to work outside unions and union standards. People wanting to join unions are simply let go. And this is not only in the case of pilots. Same goes for cabin crew and engineers. And because all this madness has been allowed to go this far, new pilots not only have to cost all their type training themselves and work under those conditions, the company is now even asking for a bond by holding back a part of the paycheck, or that was the mood they were in few days back.

Apparently, Air Atlanta, the Icelandic CAA and their relationship concerning licence validations is also under the microscope by the icelandic authorities. This turn of events seems to have sparked interest of the media and I would not be surprised to see Mr. Icelandic Taxman sniffing around that operation that hires all its workforce though some shadow contractor service (owned by AA by the way) based on a no-man´s island called Nui somewhere in the middle of nowhere.

I guess those who are opposed to this turn of events are either airline management itself or pilots unfortunate enough to work outside a union, unable to speak their minds and needs. To me this turn of events its all good news. BUT...... if it is all true and Air Atlanta will be made play fair game I hope it wont be just to make it easier for other similar companies to take advantage and spread cancer into our profession but rather to give those of us pilots working under those ****ty conditions courage to rise up and make your future better. We are not talking about being rich. We will never be and thats ok. We are taking about basic rights for professionals that carry unusually high responsibilities on their shoulders every day.

I worked once for Air Atlanta and sure enough there are many nice blokes there, even the icelandic themselves. But not many...... well none now I think of, it was really happy to be there. Im glad to be far away from it all now.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Yes no Yes :

Air Canada would be a great place for you to work, they are a unionized Company with a bright future for guys who want top wages protected by a union.

All the best when you apply.

[Anti Skid On]

It is in the middle of the South Pacific - I've heard of outsourcing, but never that far away - quite different from Iceland!

[VORTILON]

Yes,no,yes,
You're first post, just registered, you're not another there who's just failed the sim are you!

[Jack The Lad]

Vortilon

My sentiments exactly! Why are people so vociferous on this site at times, that spells out to the whole world that they have an agenda and then say that they have moved on and don't care, but had a good time??

Maybe they think we were all born in a cabbage patch! Sad to see such vindictiveness and hatred. Maybe they should grow up a bit and learn to love themselves; then the world would seem a much happier place., and they may start to love others and have some fun.

First Posters are always suspect when the content of their message is damning! Must be a regular that needs to disguise true identity. What a waste of bandwidth and of no real relevance. Message is, if you don't like the deal, don't sign up for it. If you do, then don't whinge about making a bad decision.

This industry will go the way its going, no matter what how hard or loud you bleat. I'm sure 411 would agree entirely!

[Airbubba]

>>Air Canada would be a great place for you to work, they are a unionized Company with a bright future for guys who want top wages protected by a union.<<

Now, if they can just get out of bankruptcy <g>...

[bijave]

Yeaaaahhh ! You have no family life, you make as much money as a cashier assistant, you have to pay money upfront for various training expenditures. AA's Management is using that really sad situation certain pilots are finding themselves in to exploit them. You guys are saying you should be happy because you've signed up. What a pile of horse crap ! You've obviously got great interests in letting the system going on...

Those pilots have NO choice but to sign up. Why should they be happy ?

But pilots' working conditions is not the only aspect of AA's bad management style. Only look at MELs and others technical deviations...You'll be scared. And that's why I think the Icelandic CAA must have struck some kind of deal with AA's management to keep their eyes shut. Yeah, let's call corruption. No other civilized CAA would have kept so quiet before so much piratery.

But it sounds like the end of the game...I can't wait to see the end of the movie.

[Woodpidgeon]

To those more vociferous members I suggest you talk to some of the old Canada 3000 and Nationair guys who work for AA. As one guy said to me ' when AA employed me the faucet was dry...not even dripping'. These guys are sharp operators but had nowhere to go and were very grateful for a job. There is always a silver lining, and trust me a lot of happy ( ish ) people there are grateful for a job when no noe else was interested.

[Jack The Lad]

Bijave

If you can make as much money as a cashier assistant, why not go for it? You could probably work a normal shift, no night flights and go to work with a high alcholol level that nobody would be interested in. All gain from what I can see; only possible problem is do you have the skills and attributes to be a cashier assistant? If not, then sadly you're kinda stuck in a dead end carrer with no way out.

Hell, go kick that miserable careers advice officer for ever suggesting a pilot career would be any good!

[411A]

Jack the Lad,

Yes, would agree that AAI has a knack for keeping their head above water, and providing employment for those during thin times.
Some very nice folks there, and tolerant as well, as the ops structure needs getting used to...but sad to say that the very same basic mistakes are still being made, as from ten years ago, especially in the crewing/leave/hotac/salary/maintenance areas, and would also expect that the piper will have to be paid at some stage.

UK certification for the British division will make a difference, I would expect.

[aceari]

Yes there are some very nice blokes there, but unfortunately for them, according to a mate the taxman has started sniffing around AAI. Which means that they will be made to hold back the 38% income tax, so it won´t be down to the individual anymore whether to pay the tax or not. :yuk:

[The Codfather]

411A, d'ont hold your breath! , with the current management it will probably get worse!!!

Air Atlanta Icelandic is not so bad, UK operation is a joke:ugh:

[Earl]

I have not heard any of these rumours stated here.
If for say you are an American an have recedence in another country you are tax exempt for the USA up to I think 80 grand usd as long as you remain away for 330 days a year.
Most of us work for another agency Direct/Ace an never go to Iceland anyway.
We are directly employed by these companies not AAI.
Dont see how they would be able to tax us.
As I said before I have heard nothing on this issue.
Yes pay an time off needs a little improvement but I do hear its coming with the new contracts.
Things always can be improved, but its a hell of alot better than it was before an is constantly changing for the better.

[Loftie]

Did some work with them quite a while ago and though they were the most pig headed, and rude lot of people I have ever met. Seems nothing has changed.

[flydonkey]

Loftie,

Wow! Quite a statement there! There is just one tiny little problem with it. I don´t think that other current or ex employees would agree with you. Admittingly Air Atlanta does have its ups and downs, especially in the operation side of things but I don´t think they deserve your statement.

I wonder who is the rude and pig headed one?

[The Codfather]

I agree with loftie. especially here at gatwick, a full pig sty!!! the most popular management team in uk, were they on special offer? :E

[Earl]

I could not agree more fly donkey.
I suspect that some of these guys did not make it through the training or perhaps left for some type of other problem.
Happy I dont have to fly with them an their negative attitudes.

That old saying still holds true.
If a managers name does not make it on the **** house wall then he is not doing his job.

[Dockjock]

Steve Leslie, Safety Editor for WINGS mag (Canada) praises AAI in his column in this month's issue (Sep/Oct '03). He took an 8-month contract through AAI to fly for Southern Winds Lineas Aereas and was evidently quite happy with it.

[wassup]

Happyness comes with cheap steaks, red wine and chicas in Argentina.
Aparently AAI does anything for good Press. :E

[Steve Leslie]

Thanks for the kudos on the Wings article.

Mr. Yes, No, Yes sounds like he is a little bitter and twisted over something or other. However, I do agree with one of his comments. There is room for improvement at Air Atlanta. However, like most of my ex-Canada 3000 colleagues, we are quite happy to be working here. As for me, Southern Winds has been an absolutely fantastic contract. Granted, you are 10000 km away from home, but when the Canadian aviation economy is in a tailspin and there are few jobs in sight, this is a pretty damn good option.

Air Atlanta came along at a time when I was out-of-work for 16 months and the only prospect was driving a propane truck. The money here is good, but I agree the time off and benefits need improvement.

As for unions, I for one will never be part of a union again. When, Canada 3000 went out of business in 2001, ALPA abandoned us and were not there for us when we needed support. When it comes to flight safety, ALPA are very good at what they do. However, when it comes to representing your interests and standing by your side when the chips are down, they are useless. That is my opinion. And I have been there as my other colleagues have.

So, Mr. Yes, No, Yes, you make some valid points. But for me, I will take chicas, cheap food and red wine any day over the unemployment line.

For me and the rest of my colleagues, Air Atlanta has been the light at the end of the tunnel. At least for now.

The next article for Wings is just being published and it will also be about flying with Southern Winds and Air Atlanta. At the very least, I am glad to find something good to write and talk about. Better than I can say for Mr. Yes, No, Yes.

Hasta Luego,
Steve Leslie

edited to remove duplication

[Earl]

Mr. yes, no yes must have an axe to grind with someone.
Time off does need improvement here.
Time off to go home is without pay, for the pilots anyway.
Balancing work an family life with months away from home is
difficult.

[B767300ER]

I agree with Steve on a couple points: Unions are no damn good and after 16 months ANY flying job is good.

C3000 pilots got hosed by ALPA after the C3/CanJet/Royal fiasco. No support whatsoever. A joke of a 'union'.

I ran into some of your ex-C3 colleagues in Seattle at Boeing, Steve; they were quite happy working for a new B-757 start-up called HMY. All were very professional, and gentleman.

I did tease them about the Canucks losing in the Stanley Cup playoffs, however! :p

[password]

All these people fed up with their job at AA could always LEAVE, or do they force people to stay as well ? There must be something keeping them there !!!!!:sad:

[Flight Detent]

Hey Password,
Why you not understand, eh, the guys need to work, and if thats all thats going, then you have to 'grin and bear it' - sounds simple to sort as far as I'm concerned!
I worked for AAI for over four years, saved them hundreds of thousands of dollars in aircraft delays and recoveries, not to mention embarrassment (If thats possible), all maintenance related.
Then, one day I made it known to one of those lazy, good-for-nothing 'operations officers' sods (locals), that he was just that, justifiably, I think, and my contract was not renewed.

They were always operating 'on the edge' so to speak, as far as maintenance was concerned, something I never could quite put up with, so my time there was never happy, just had to go with it to keep the job.

As I said, I'm out of there now, and very glad for it!!

Cheers:ok:

[The Mickey Mouser]

Well I actually work for Air Atalnta, not been told about it by 'my mate who works there'

Air Atlanta is what you make of it, it is not for everybody, the Ops Dept is not the best so you need to be able to think on your feet and you do need to get things done yourself. Yes the Icelandics are a strange bread, they probably think the same about us!!!! I have done some great flying with them and have been all over the world to places I never thought I would go to in normal life, if you are happy flying to the Greek Islands and back in the same day then you do it as it does not interest me in the slightest. I am a professional with a professional attitude, I go to work and fly safely and like most other companies they may occasionally try and 'bend the rules a little' to get the job done, I say no, if it is justified then noboby can hold it against you.
The money could and should be better but that may soon change, they pay on time too, not like some other contract companies.

......... and finally before the moaners come back to me I PAY TAXES TOO. :ok:

[Woodpidgeon]

The Mickey Mouser

I couldn't agree more. I cant be assed replying to the negativity and agree with you totally. Long may the job last and the salary increase promised arrives....I also pay my taxes.

[SKI]

I pay my taxes too! but , I am not signing the Air Atlanta Europe contract, unless it improves dramatically!!!

[B767Longhaul]

All pilots are toilet paper to Air Atlanta, they use you and throw you away

Yes no yes, I like what you say.

Having also once worked for AAI, I can relate to what you have to say.

AAI uses crews like toilet paper. They use you and then throw you away if you complain, disagree, refuse to operate illegally, ect.

The only problem is that there are other spineless individuals who will step right up after you refuse to conform to their way and take the flight anyways.

:yuk:

[NSRCHOF]

All wonderful pros and cons here on AAI. Now, lets get it right and put them out of business. We just need an inbreeder island government to sign off on what ever we tell them and we can fool the world.

[password]

If some of you pilots are a so called "valued commodity" as many as you seem to think you are, and you're all so dammed good at what you do, you should have the pick of the jobs around the world.
In which case, why don't you spend less time moaning and more time searching for that elusive pot of gold at the end of the rainbow...

Given the choice, we'd probably all change aspects of our working lives and environments, but we have to get on with it, unless, apparently, you're a pilot.....

And before you all scream and shout, there are some dammed good ones, who enjoy their work and their lives but don't spend all day going on about how bad life is..........blah blah blah :{

Bye Bye

[Kato747]

Pasword...... hear hear!!!! Many of us at AAI are a selective breed, it's true! Some have mortgages, some not....some are JAR, some not! ALL are professionals, albeit working on the fringe.....but the fringe is coming mainstream.

A lot of guys Ive heard lambasting AAI, come from previously coddled environments, like Ansett or "the world's favourite airline", and are understandably non-plussed at having to operate in the real world.

Crap pay and dubious accomodation have their advantages. These conditions tend to concentrate one's mind on getting the friggin' job done! Safely!!! Those of you who want profit-sharing and 28 days off a month need not apply. It's not "US" who are missing out.....I'll feel safer without YOU there!

Last count, there were over 64 different nationalities working for the "Icies". Don't knock it until you've succeeded at it for , at least, one Hadj!

edited to ensure the Queen's English was correct

[2Bad2Sad]

Security for haj crews?
Refusal to jed base massive!

[Paladini]

Any questions about security for Hadj crews??? I have none! Let's see, the compound in Riyahd was formerly Boeing.....Rose Village was formerly USAF and Lockheed..... hmmmmmm?

Even Nisar D. will probably be a bit reticent this year.....next target the Al Bilad????

This Hadj should be VERY interesting, eh? :uhoh:

[Whiskery]

Crews will be based in India for this year's Hadj. Too much trouble on the Saudi mainland. This is why we are having difficulty recruiting crews.

Events in Riyhad have sealed it. Other options would be Bahrain or the UAE. The first Hadj I can remember when we can get a drink (legally) at Base !

Keep the faith :]

[Earl]

I was told that a Muslim must perform HAJ once in his lifetime if he can afford it.
A pilot with Air atlanta has to do HAJ every year or he cannot afford anything.
With many Haj"s behind me I am still broke!

[loaded1]

Hello "Password"

You are so right, pilots are a bunch of arrogant t@ sers, every one a born loser with an attitude a mile wide who thinks that they are a valued commodity because of having other peoples lives in their trust. A whole industry full of little prima donna's. What a crock of you know what they all are, n'est ce pas?

They so have it coming to them, and about time too, eh! Sure feels good when you get the little b@ t@ ds on a short term contract with lousy benefits and force them to prostitute themselves by flying stupid hours in aeroplanes that have not had the required maintenance. No more happy smiles from them then. In fact, best of all is to crank the benefits down and the hassles up to the point where it becomes a serious debate amongst their pathetic little community as to whether its worth going on in the "profession" or not. Sorry, should have said "trade" there.

So much fun when you can be not merely unjust in terms of hiring and firing but deliberately cruel. So funny to see their little worn-out faces and hopeless attempts at maintaining a domestic life when you can mess about with their lives pretty much at whim. So weird that despite all this they just keep coming to the door looking for more of the same like an abused dog that hasnt got the wit to leave its abusing owner.

Yeah, right Mr. Password, and what do you do for a hobby? Pull the wings off butterflies for fun? Posts like yours make pprune a required AVOID these days. Guess one shouldn't take the bait and bite back but it amazes me you have the gall to post the pure, unadulterated, bull that you do.

[2Bad2Sad]

Contract being presented long term
Massive salary reduction 20%
So far only 2 takers.
Pilot"s feel slapped in face once again.
Few takers for this one.

[acmi48]

hand bags all over the place,but the statements about maintenance etc bear some thought

i know who does a lot of the large a/c maint and they are a JAR145 certificate holder as are the airline

there is no room for monkey business other than the legal MEL

for the rest- enjoy your lemons

[Flybob]

Dear Earl, love it! seriously nice response.
Ref Jar ops compliance. Get a grip. This is the european flag of convenience!
Might as well be liberian!
New deal shows 20 per cent salary reduction for same time at work. IE you pay for your own vacation in a pay drop.
Nice!
Thank you Mr AAI
On top of that, you no longer have the choice of when you take the vacation. Plus you sign off on the next six years of Xmas at home.
All this for less money.
Hummmmmmmmmm, let me figure this one out!
Got it!
Jerry, Stick it where the sun don't shine!
Oh, but I am sure you are finally getting this message, ref the response from the last month!

[411A]

I take it the bloom has gone off the rose then, Flybob...
No, indeed it is not the airline it once was...especially for the wannabee check and traing guys who could not cut the mustard, and pull in the $12K+ monthly salaries, just a short time ago.

Read it and weep....:ok:

[Flash Gordon]

What is the wage for a F.O. ? I just applaied:confused: Do they really want you to pay your type rating yourself???

[Thermal]

Hello Earl,

Loved your post.

You're not the only one! :8

[Flybob]

Flash.
F/Os start on 175 USD per day. No per diem no extras. O/T paid at 75 dollars an hour after 75 hours. Thats it!
I believe Mikey Dees pays more, but then you will have to check with 411A as that was the only place he could get a job after he was "let go".
I have never applied or been turned down for a training job but maybe I should apply if 12 K is true. At least I have that choice!
Thanks for the info!

[Thermal]

The training pay is a lot less than 12 grand. :bored:

I don't know where 411A gets his info.

Out of date it seems ....

[411A]

Yes thermal...out of date.
In the past, 12 grand+ was the norm...that's why I left.

A few guys (Flybob) never learn...:p
'Course he wouldn't know, as he didn't qualify.
Hardly surprising.

[crundale]

Flybob et al,
175 USD per day
so if you work 10 months thats $50,000
don't sound so bad now does it??
Or u could work at McDs for $6 an hour - thats $48 per day - 8 hour max outside aviation remember - thats about $15,000 a year. And they will be paying a couple of grand tax on that....
And with that overtime as well you guys will be worth at least 4 burger flippers!!
SO can we stick to the valid complaints and fears about security, safety etc, cos when u start moaning about only making $50k a year it does diminish your other arguments which we need to take seriously :)

[Earl]

Crundale,
How can you relate Big macs to Pilots?
Perhaps we should state this in a way that you understand!
We dont want small salaries, an we dont want to go large on our fries or drink.
We want regular industry salaries. With normal time at home.
Have you seen your wife an children in the last 6 months?
Were you able to come home once a month?
Or have you spent several months away from home at low pay.
An when you finally went home after many months it was without any pay.
Did your family recognise you?
When you walked out the door to return to work did they look you in the eye when you said I may not return home for a few more months.
If I do we cannot afford it!
Dont hand us your crew scheduling Bull SXXT.

[password]

Mr "Loaded1"

Obviously an appropriate nickname, must be a pilot, from one of the majors i'd guess !! If i'm off target i apologise in advance.

Guess you couldn't resist the bait and had to bite back.

The first three lines you sarcastically posted, must have been formed somewhere, perhaps deep down that is what you think, the world thinks, of pilots...I don't agree, only some are like that. makes you question if it's all bull though. Even you think it !!!

Although if you are silly enough to run back to the "abusing owner" then you probably deserve the abuse.

We all have a choice - Or is it destiny :ooh:

Enjoy :ok:

[crundale]

Earl,
Oh dear. How right you are. Last time i chose to work abroad i did indeed get home an average of once every 3 months, and that was at my own expense not paid for by the company. And no i didnt get paid in the end and I am still owed about 7 months salary. But i stayed on because i believed in the company. Had i had a rational thought in my head i would have come home earlier of course.
And being but a humble oik from Ops meant the salary i never received was about 1/4 of that of the Captains. They were paid in full each month (at 5% tax thru Liechtenstein - all illegally) while i was shafted (at 50% tax). And they all left before me.
And when i left there i had to leave my home and partner.
So, yes i know how you feel, maybe more so. Yes it was all my fault, and yes i could have stayed in the UK on a much smaller salary. But i dont blame anyone else except myself. Wasn;t any airlines fault, they never chained me to a desk.
It was great fun though, and i'd do it again.
You shouldnt be so bitter, just admit you make sacrifices for the money. Ask yourself though is it worth it? People at McDs still manage to raise kids, just without the big house, flash car etc.
And be nice to your crew schedulers, you never know when you may need them :)
Have a happy xmas and i hope u get home soon

[B767Longhaul]

Hey Crundale, how about a BigMac to go,,, and a few days off please...

Let's see now,, training to be a crew scheduler,, hmmm,, on the job training and if you don't know you ask the manager.. you work 8 hours a day with lunch, oh and a few breaks for a cigarette or coffee,, if you like,,,

Training to be a cockpit crew member,, thousands of pounds, or dollars, which ever,,, years of experience in most cases to reach a command,, The responsibility of hundreds of lives.. The responsibility of Millions of pounds/dollars worth of aircraft,, and, you have to put up with some snot nose kid who is "learning" to be a crew scheduler.

Mind you, there are some very excellent crew scheduling departments out there. Much of it is a learned profession, but most of all, a courteous mindset and the maturity to do the job professionally is what's necessary.

I hope you are home for Christmas too !!!

[loaded1]

"Password" you are a 'Newark', mate. Give it a little time and you'll work it out.

Your pompous b)ll%hit inspired me to use IRONY as a means of contrasting your post effectively. But I had not counted on your rampant inability to see that.

OED: Irony; subtle MOCKERY or humour; sarcasm; way of speaking in which words mean the opposite of their normal or APPARENT meaning.

Oh, and your wrong about the reason for my username too. What might it be that you do? (Apart from being a Newark).

[Munkeh]

Children please! This thread started out about Air Atlanta and I for one keep looking back to see if anyone has added any useful comments (about Air Atlanta). Can't you guys just email each other directly to argue about who has the biggest Dad or whether or not you want to be pilots when you grow up? I don't think many other people care one way or the other.

[bluesafrica]

Exactly!
Blues

[buttonmonkey]

Personally I can't wait for an upturn, when companies with descent pay and conditions start to hire again and there is at last a genuine choice of employer for aircrew who have found themselves unemployed over the last couple of years. Sit back and watch the exodus............

[Jack The Lad]

Hey Crundale, please be careful!:)

You've no doubt seen the "fly on the wall" documentaries about MCD's and Burger Kings too!

Next time any pilot walks into one of these joints, he'll probably get a big green flob mixed in with their secret recipe sauce. OMG

Come to think of it, I think I'll give both joints a miss. I hope they can't tell the offspring of a peelot, cos my kids eat there very often. :eek:

Fast food for thought

[Up & Away]

....aircrew who have found themselves unemployed over the last couple of years....

How many could have afforded just to sit back and wait??
How do you keep current?? etc also Contract pilots are the last to be touched by 'regular' airlines.

[CaptBlack]

Come on guys, AAI can't be that bad, after all, Virgin Atlantic have been using them for years.....

[2Bad2Sad]

Slavery is back to AA! Mister O from Ireland find a new way to have his "long term contract" sign!!!!!!!!!!!
By the end of this month all Ace contracts were cancel and a new agency will take over: Airborne
What is going to happen?
Simple: You will fly the Hajj for 175$ per day, including Chrismas and new Year ( cabin from Asia and north Africa 40$ per day)
No insurance
No per diem
No security
Based in a ex military barracks
Over weight aircraft
Illegal crew duty days
hajj flu
And the list goes on........

Pilots sticking together for better conditions.
Word is bases will be broken up to prevent this.
Thank you Bill gates we have email.
Thank you Mr. O. for your long term contract AKA, Lies to Crews

[wassup]

Yes they are indeed that bad!!!!

[2Bad2Sad]

Password, go back to your office, you know nothing about the pilot's world, you are just a little beans counter!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[password]

2bad2sad....If only you knew....if only.:ok:

[loaded1]

OK, "Password", dont be shy, tell us what you do and also why you appear to condone the methods used by this employer.

[password]

I don't ever remember condoning the methods of the said operator, i have only ever stated people have a choice, and instead of complaining of their 'lot' they should get out and look for that elusive pot of gold.

You yourself said this site is becoming an 'avoid', i am beginning to agree with you, instead of a "rumours & news" forum, it's becoming a "my jobs so cr*p" forum.

All i am saying is "if you don't like it, don't do it"

I am not for or against their terms and conditions of employment, although that is probably because i don't know exactly what they are.

I hope this goes some way to explaining my comments on this thread.

All the very best.:ok:

[Paladini]

Gentlemen, Please!!!!! The AAI/methods thread has become severely distorted.

I, for one, haven't seen a USEFUL comment, or ANY reference as to how or why AAI should be made to PAY for it's methods.

Air Atlanta is doing what it does best, providing low-cost, high-quality services to the ACMI segment of the industry.... I can't see that changing....barring another 911 event.....

Unless, of course, AAI management continues to consort with the likes of a certain Irishman.

If you need to bash anyone, leave the boys, girls and Bi's from Mossfellsbaer out of this. A certain mgt pilot confirmed last week that they had not even been briefed on the new "LTC" from Airborne. Haffi must have been livid!

[737badass]

Have been enjoying reading the worldwide comments about Atlanta. Used to work there long time ago and sure it was a bit messy and chaotic at times but at least it paid ok. Seeing now what they offer (175$ gross for an f/o) makes me realize why this Atlanta thread is getting long and full of discussion. This must be the rock bottom of aviation and sad to say this former workplace has arguably the worst reputation in the business. I must say I would not be surprised if this "slavery" will be brought to the attention of authorities sonner or later as stated in the beginning of this thread. It had to happen. However, as bad as it might seem I have to agree with Mr. password above, saying that noone makes you work for AA. If people dont want to work there, they should simply go. Its a free choice.


Finally, I wonder how much extra salary Atlanta is offering their pilots to fly during the Hajj. That must be a bonus for the underpaid crews. Can anyone shed a light on that?

All the best lads.