capt Air Prox,

"If you ever see him on the manifest, give me a heads up and I will refuse him gladly!".

Big Powerful Captain,you.

I suggest that the title of this topic is incorrect as many postees have pointed out that Fly.be only cancel when there is no alternative available to them which is the opposite to the impression given in the title.

I do not work for Fly.be but I have had considerable experience of how they react when there are wx probs and apart from a reluctance use the phone as opposed to the telex they do a very good job, far better than BA.

:D

Minesagrolsch,

Nah, I'm not a big powerful captain, just a captain that doesn't like having bolshy, unprofessional "professionals" in the business slagging off their fellow workers., and then expecting to be helped handover fist.

You may get away with "bolshy" in BA, but not where I come from.

To those who are reading this you will note that this is my first posting on pprune.

I have read with great interest the comments of a wide and varied spectrum of aviation proffessionals all giving their opinion as to the conduct of the ops guy who had the unfortunate pleasure of working on shift when both GCI and JER were below landing limits from 0800 on the Sunday to 1700 on Monday.

You may now see where this is heading.........

I was the Ops Guy in question.

I stand by the decisions made on the day with the information I had available, the crews I had at my disposal, the aircraft available and after consulting with the passenger services departments at BHX,LGW,LCY,EXT,BHD,GLA,EDI,IOM,LBA!and JER and GCI the decisions made to cancel the sectors was made with the interest of all cencerned. All pasengers should have been made aware of problems we were encountering in the Channel Islands and of the four or five replans which were put in place over the whole period which were made to accommodate them.
If I have upset someone be cancelling a flight I can only appologise but given the same circumstances I would probably make the same decisions again.
As all Ops Controllers know, there comes a time in a shift when all avenues of re-scheduling, aircraft changing and favour asking expires and some part of the schedule has to take a hit.
We dont know who, when or where this will be but it deos happen. When it deos someone allways feels that it is them who are the unfortunate ones who are being victimised by the carrier.
It will happen again and lets hope next time the gentleman in question is on the right side of the sea when it deos then we humble ops controllers can concentrate on getting the job done to the best of our ability.

Split Duty.
Please accept my full apologies for starting this thread,and having a dig.
I really did mean it to be "tongue in cheek",but,as usual with pprune,it gives ammo to others to get stuck in and disect every word.It then becomes a heated Nigel bashing session.How original ?
I fully realize that it isn't that simple to have crews available when there are such delays,even when fog does lift unexpectedly.
Unfortuneatly,nobody on pprune actually can be bothered to answer anything.They are too busy slagging everyone else off.
I engaged a bit of thread creep,and enquired about why FlyBe have such a rigid and restrictive staff travel policy.
I was not having a go at their staff at all.They are all polite and helpful.But it is the rules imposed by Fly Be that are extemely unhelpful.
But in over 20 posts since I posed the question,not one person has given any indication as to why FlyBe don't accept any staff in Business when econ is full.I thought it was a sensible question.But all I have got in return is helpful comments like


"Stingy git,pay full fare"

"Staff travel is a perk"

etc etc.

I know that,but that is not the point.

Obviously all these FlyBe guys are quite happy that they leave staff behind when they have empty seats up front,otherwise perhaps even one person would have actually said something about it,instead of using it as an excuse to get stuck in.


capt air prox.
Very kind of you to call me unprofessional.
Nice that you judge people that you do not know.
(Is that why you failed the interview?)
I can assure you that I am nothing of the sort.
I'm not slagging off fellow workers.
Ok,the initial post was a bit heavy,but it was meant tongue in cheek,and I have apologise to the guy in question,above.
I don't expected to be helped hand over fist.Just the same amount as I would help you or anyone else.
I just think it unhelpful (along with ALL other commuters who use FlyBe,inc many of YOUR colleagues) that FlYBE chooses to ban staff from travelling when econ is full,even when Business is empty.The ground staff are embarassed by it and most of the pilots (with the very odd exception) think it's crazy.
You,and everyone else who has commented,obviously think this is great,as nobody has said anything in it's defence.
If virtually all other airlines can accept staff when they have a seat (in whatver cabin),then why can't FlyBe ?
No,I don't expect an answer,just more childish crap along the lines of "Pay full fare,don't use staff trav etc".
It really is very sad when people just add to this thread by all having a go.Makes you feel better does it ?
(Ok,I am also guilty of this as well,but I admit that and apologise to anyone that may be offended)
Over the years I must have helped hundreds of staff travel that definitely would not have done so without my intervention.I have done this for no other reason than it is the done thing (in BA,at least) to help our colleagues whenever you can.
But you (and others who have contributed here) seem to think that I am asking for the earth.When ?
I would just like FlyBe to be like every other airline.
But you obviously do not use staff travel and do not expect to travel in other seat but economy.
It can be arranged.

By the way,Danny summed it up in another thread somewhere.
Why is it that everyone not in BA think that all BA pilots are bolshy ?You lot love to "Nigel bash" and tar everyone with the same brush.Have a look around first before you do.
Right CAPT air prox.I've got to go and be very unprofessional,assuming that I get helped hand over fist to get on a flight.
Thanks so much for all you help.
Your views are well balanced (must be that chip on each shoulder)

This is my stab at why the front end, on many airlines, sometimes goes empty despite 'staff' pax being available to fill the seats, potential reasons for you Minesagrolsch:

1. There may be insufficient catering for the additional staff pax
2. Cabin crew do not like to be put in a situation whereby some pax get full service and others do not.
3. Believe it or not, the full fare chaps and chapesses get mightily peeved if the cabin fills up with non full fare passengers. They feel they have paid quite a bit extra for the additional service level and resent what they percieve as free loaders. Like it or not this is true, in another incarnation I had to deal with many a complaint from the full fare pax re this.
4. No matter how discreet, it is inevitable that the staff pax will become known, either through lack of food served or casual conversation.

I think point 3 is the most valid as it is protecting the business persons product. If it isn't full, then they get a bit more room.

It is nice to be upgraded and I've been fortunate for it to happen on the odd occassion but I certainly wouldn't rely on it.

Jump-seats
 

...and I'm certain that this staff travel situation has been exacerbated by the recent restrictions imposed on jump-seat use. I'm sure that, before these, the business class pax could get their extra room and the sub-load staff would get a lift on the jump-seat.

Next time it happens, count to ten and blame Bin-Laden

:rolleyes:

In terms if service, there is precious little difference between flybe business and economy class anyway. They are both pretty poor.

You are hardly swapping BA economy for some lie-flat beds on an 12 hour flight to Hong Kong.

Guys.
Thanks for these proper replies.Phew.
Firstly to answer "surely not":
"
1. There may be insufficient catering for the additional staff pax
2. Cabin crew do not like to be put in a situation whereby some pax get full service and others do not.
3. Believe it or not, the full fare chaps and chapesses get mightily peeved if the cabin fills up with non full fare passengers. They feel they have paid quite a bit extra for the additional service level and resent what they percieve as free loaders. Like it or not this is true, in another incarnation I had to deal with many a complaint from the full fare pax re this.
4. No matter how discreet, it is inevitable that the staff pax will become known, either through lack of food served or casual conversation. "


1.Good point.But I know that sometimes when BA upgrade pax,whether staff or pax,the CC tell them that they may only get an economy meal.Most staff just want to get on.They are not interested in a meal.Certainly not on a 30min puddle jump.
It's the seat to get to home/work I'm after,not the upgrade from no snack to a very basic one.
2.Another very valid point.depends on whether the cc would expect the same if they flew with an other carrier.
3.If staff are upgraded into ,say Club or First,they are only done so if suitably dressed,and are expected to behave and act like thay should be there.
Ugrading someone into FlyBe's business cabin is hardly the same a s taking staff into BA's Club of First.
Let's face it,on the 146,the seat is the same,it just pulls out an inch or so,and a lovely curtain is drawn ro separate the cabins.Hardly the same a s staff on BA Club having a flat-bed sleeper seat etc.BUt BA will upgrade YOU if all other canins are full.They won't dump you the other side of the world.Good job FlyBe only operate locally.
4.Not necessarily.If they just act sensibly,then there is no need for others to know.

Unvce Monty.
Totally agree with you.

cumulo-granite

Likewise.
Although often FlyBe have 4 cabin crew and only 3 J's's so one CC sits in FD for take and landing

Is this getting a bit academic...?
 

The last few times I've flown GCI/LGW/GCI there hasn't BEEN a business class....steerage from 1A to 22F...

kuningan.
If it's getting a bit academic,you could always leave.
I believ that FlyBe sometimes have no Business class at weekends,but certainly they have two cabins Mon to fri,even if one has eight spare seats all the time.
Thanks for your input,academic or not.

Minesagrolsch...I've been travelling mid week mid day...both directions...no business class - are you referring to the first & last flights of the day?

Grolsch Drinker.........

Firstly I am confused as to why you can't understand how people will become annoyed by some of your posts. I have read through these posts with great interest, and can see people's annoyance, and understand the reasons.

I think that any critisism you have come in for is mostly fair. Maybe not for what you have said, more for the way it was said.

Tongue in Cheek it certainly was not. A personal attack of the Ops Controller it did appear to be. For which I admire the Controller for introducing themself, and sticking by every decision he/she made. I also applaud you apologising publically.

Your comments to Flybe's staff travel policy have however been a little bit blinkered. BA staff travel is generally very good, and other airlines do also tend to treat BA staff well. However, Flybe obviously restrict Staffies in Business for a reason. And that is their perogative. Let's face it, FLybe are (I believe?) profitable, which cannot be said of BA. As a result, BA are desperate for any money they can get, and a good policy this is. However, BA do not always fill Business if Economy is full, and trust me when I say that Flybe are not alone in their policy of staff travel. You also commented on the time of onload for some Flybe flights. BA are no angels at this either, and many a time have I had to run like crazy from T4 Staff Check-in to the gate due to late onload.

You are an employee of BA, whom I believe are still one of the top airlines in the world. You are priveledged, believe me.

This is not another attack, just an attempt at trying to help you understand why people say the things they, in the manner they say them.

AOG007 :cool:

I have just read all the threads in this topic.
I must say that Minesagrolsch was a bit foolish for starting it in the first place.
He has allowed a platform for self-centred individuals such as Capt AirProx to show how jolly important they think they are in their own(small) world.
His initial "attack" probably was meant "tongue in cheek",but once in print,it is difficult to gauge this.
At least he has apologised to those that he may have offended.
But I do have to agree with him about staff travel.
BA do help staff when they can.They are also now profitable,if that has any bearing.

Yeah.Give the guy some slack.
He has apologised to those that were offended.
What more do you ******s want.Blood ?

Staff use of business class can be made a lot easier by business being loaded into rows 1/2 leave row 3 as a buffer, if required fold up the centre seat and you can fit SIX extra pax in. The cabin crew are then not put in the position of having meals for one pax and not the other in the same row.

Staff do not get a meal or free drinks but do get a seat behind the business people.

Also if shock horror extra full fare pax arrive as the flight closes,you have the option of easily subsituting the staff pax.

It wont effect the C of G , but it will BOOST morale.

We all know if it is full we wait for the next one.

:p :p :p