FlyBe Cancels Again
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FlyBe Cancels Again
FlyBe need to sack their ops guy !
There have been virtually no flights in or out of the Channel Islands for two days (26,27 Jan) due to dense fog.
FlyBe decided to cancel all remaining flights on Monday by early afternoon.So the fog lifts (in Guernsey at least) at 1630.There are now hundred's stranded pax in the islands and LGW who could have travelled what with nearly 5 hours of normal opening time left (plus extension till midnight available) had someone been a little less heavy handed with the marker pen !!
There have been virtually no flights in or out of the Channel Islands for two days (26,27 Jan) due to dense fog.
FlyBe decided to cancel all remaining flights on Monday by early afternoon.So the fog lifts (in Guernsey at least) at 1630.There are now hundred's stranded pax in the islands and LGW who could have travelled what with nearly 5 hours of normal opening time left (plus extension till midnight available) had someone been a little less heavy handed with the marker pen !!
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"flybe need to sack their ops guy!"
How can the ops guy have any influence on the weather!!! As a fellow ops bod, I get somewhat dismayed with people who cast criticism and dont take the full picture into account (ie. the rest of the days operation that needs to be protected!!)...
How can the ops guy have any influence on the weather!!! As a fellow ops bod, I get somewhat dismayed with people who cast criticism and dont take the full picture into account (ie. the rest of the days operation that needs to be protected!!)...
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Minesagroslch, you really don't see the 'big' picture, there could be many reasons for flights canx at 16:30 when the wx opened up, wingeing flight deck for a start would not be happy sat around waiting for wx to improve , keeping duty hours down being important. So just be glad you are on a beutiful rock. Being a Grolsch drinker, that explains it all...
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I think you're forgetting all the other complications - such as Crew Duty Hours, Crews being in the wrong place, not being able to position crews in etc etc..
But what you've failed to mention is that the BA LGW Flights were all cancelled by 11:30 and that's with all their resources.
I think Flybe did a good job holding out for as long as they could.
But what you've failed to mention is that the BA LGW Flights were all cancelled by 11:30 and that's with all their resources.
I think Flybe did a good job holding out for as long as they could.
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Usual problem. The jersey met office said their would be no chance of a clearance of fog before midnight(after the passage of cold front) So the airlines canx and the pax can go home or back to their hotels, and the fog promptly clears at 1630!!. Aurigny managed a couple of inter island flights but most pax travelled by boat JB to JJ but no boat JJ to JB. Most passengers are happy if they know what is happening and not just hanging around, tho the airlines always get a slating in the local press( Flybe being described as shoddy and sloppy!!)
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Me tinks I'd have to be with Minesagrolsch,
It is clear that the operations people in EXT have demonstrated a total lack of capability in lifting fog. APPALLING
Same with the met office people in JER. I mean, if anybody is expected to lift the fog then surely they are!
Have another MAG, sounds like you need it
It is clear that the operations people in EXT have demonstrated a total lack of capability in lifting fog. APPALLING
Same with the met office people in JER. I mean, if anybody is expected to lift the fog then surely they are!Have another MAG, sounds like you need it
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I seem to recall a flight leaving LCY on Sunday night (BEE477), holding over the EGJJ area for a long period, and then returning to LCY.
In fact, the poor controllers at City could have all had a late (22:30) stay that night waiting for the possibility of the fog lifting and the DH8 departing for JJ, but were saved by the fact that JJ closes fairly early!
At least they gave it a go!
In fact, the poor controllers at City could have all had a late (22:30) stay that night waiting for the possibility of the fog lifting and the DH8 departing for JJ, but were saved by the fact that JJ closes fairly early!
At least they gave it a go!
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Talking of having power over the weather;
I was inbound MXP with a CAT 1 a/c. Fog down to RVR 500m. Agh!
The ATC chappie asked what I needed to land. 550m I said.
Would you believe it? A couple of minutes later, approaching the OM, the RVR rose spectacularly to 550m. Either they had a hotline to the Pope, or realised that a G/A is free but a landing buys lunch.
I was inbound MXP with a CAT 1 a/c. Fog down to RVR 500m. Agh!
The ATC chappie asked what I needed to land. 550m I said.
Would you believe it? A couple of minutes later, approaching the OM, the RVR rose spectacularly to 550m. Either they had a hotline to the Pope, or realised that a G/A is free but a landing buys lunch.
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4Ohm
But what you've failed to mention is that the BA LGW Flights were all cancelled by 11:30 and that's with all their resources.
...but what you've failed to mention (or realise) is that BA's flying through GCI finishes much earlier than FLYBE's so the decision is easier to take, however regrettable, earlier on in the day.
Also, I wouldn't call 5 ATR72s a significant resource! There is an ever reducing possibility of the very occasional RJ100, but these aircraft are fully committed to other routes.
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OK We all know how often the fog in Jersey can spoil the party.
But I have the perfect solution.
We can learn from our friends in HK when they abandoned Kaitak.
Just move the airfield.
Throw a few rocks (OK large ones) into the sea, maybe near the mainland, and build a damn big bridge.
The island is so wealthy it would be easily funded by raising the very low tax by half a point.
It would even appease the noise abatment Nimbys....
Comments??
But I have the perfect solution.
We can learn from our friends in HK when they abandoned Kaitak.
Just move the airfield.
Throw a few rocks (OK large ones) into the sea, maybe near the mainland, and build a damn big bridge.
The island is so wealthy it would be easily funded by raising the very low tax by half a point.
It would even appease the noise abatment Nimbys....
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Said years ago that Guernsey should buy an old aircraft carrier off the Navy and sail it to wherever the clear bit is around the islands.
Passengers could then be ferried by boat the short distance to shore.
Passengers could then be ferried by boat the short distance to shore.
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Thanks everyone.
I knew I would get the "ops guy playing god with the weather"line.
Ha ha.Very witty.
The point I was trying to make,was that it seemed a bit premature to cancel all flights based on a notoriously unreliable wx forecast so early in the day.There was five hours of good flying in and out of the channel isles last night (with more available through extensions).But,apart from a couple of inter-island flights and one in and out to SOU there was nothing,as all the flights had been cancelled,assuming that the wx would stay foggy.
I think I would be a little peeved if I had been stuck in LGW or one of the islands for up to 48 hours,knowing that the weather was fine but all flights had been abandoned hours earlier.
The aircraft on the routes to GCI and JER are (in FlyBe's case) dedicated to the route,so they weren't needed elsewhere.
I don't know the ins and outs of an ops guys job,but would have thought that it wouldn't take too much thought to keep the crews in a local hotel,and call them if and when the wx lifted,as was the case.
Sill,what do I now.I've only being flying in and out of the islands for 30 years.
I knew I would get the "ops guy playing god with the weather"line.
Ha ha.Very witty.
The point I was trying to make,was that it seemed a bit premature to cancel all flights based on a notoriously unreliable wx forecast so early in the day.There was five hours of good flying in and out of the channel isles last night (with more available through extensions).But,apart from a couple of inter-island flights and one in and out to SOU there was nothing,as all the flights had been cancelled,assuming that the wx would stay foggy.
I think I would be a little peeved if I had been stuck in LGW or one of the islands for up to 48 hours,knowing that the weather was fine but all flights had been abandoned hours earlier.
The aircraft on the routes to GCI and JER are (in FlyBe's case) dedicated to the route,so they weren't needed elsewhere.
I don't know the ins and outs of an ops guys job,but would have thought that it wouldn't take too much thought to keep the crews in a local hotel,and call them if and when the wx lifted,as was the case.
Sill,what do I now.I've only being flying in and out of the islands for 30 years.
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Mag,
I wish it was that simple ! Unfortunately you can't just keep crews waiting in a hotel ready to scramble at short notice. I am willing to bet that the crews had been on duty from 06.00 am having done the red-eye JER-LGW and that they had remained on duty at the airport in the hope that the weather would clear. From that time in the morning you are limited to do about 11 hours so unless they were sure of landing at JER before 5 pm then they had no choice. In order to land in JER before 5 pm they would have to start the ball rolling in LGW about 3.30 pm, i.e. - 1 crystal ball needed.
As Airlines tend not to have fresh crews on standby ready to operate at short notice living near all the airports they operate into (they tend to be where the A/C is based, you find things run much smoother that way
) then the only option is to cancel so that you can get your only and knackered crews to the hotel ASAP so that they have the minimum required 11 hours rest so they are able to have another go first thing next morning.
If the fog had cleared a couple of hours earlier then things would have been different as FlyBe tend not to cancel flights UNLESS IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, unlike some others I could mention.
I wish it was that simple ! Unfortunately you can't just keep crews waiting in a hotel ready to scramble at short notice. I am willing to bet that the crews had been on duty from 06.00 am having done the red-eye JER-LGW and that they had remained on duty at the airport in the hope that the weather would clear. From that time in the morning you are limited to do about 11 hours so unless they were sure of landing at JER before 5 pm then they had no choice. In order to land in JER before 5 pm they would have to start the ball rolling in LGW about 3.30 pm, i.e. - 1 crystal ball needed.
As Airlines tend not to have fresh crews on standby ready to operate at short notice living near all the airports they operate into (they tend to be where the A/C is based, you find things run much smoother that way
) then the only option is to cancel so that you can get your only and knackered crews to the hotel ASAP so that they have the minimum required 11 hours rest so they are able to have another go first thing next morning.If the fog had cleared a couple of hours earlier then things would have been different as FlyBe tend not to cancel flights UNLESS IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY, unlike some others I could mention.
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puddle-j.
Not quite !
The thing is there was no red eye yesterday,as the fog had already been in situ since the previous morning,and the crew was already at LGW having n/s.
So there were crews sitting around in both the islands and LGW,well rested and waiting to go.
Not quite !
The thing is there was no red eye yesterday,as the fog had already been in situ since the previous morning,and the crew was already at LGW having n/s.
So there were crews sitting around in both the islands and LGW,well rested and waiting to go.
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Mag,
If the fog had lifted in the morning no doubt you would have expected the flight to go. In order to achieve this the crews at LGW have to be on duty from early in the morning so that they can be contacted and sent to airport at short notice. Even if this was the case it would take around 2 hours from phoning the crew at the hotel to departing. The fact that they are in a hotel and 'well rested' as you put it is incorrect. It is not possible to rest and be on standby for immediate call out at the same time, the only way they can LEGALLY rest is to be off duty i.e. not contactable.
Also how do we know that the whole crew were even available to operate. If they had already had an unscheduled night stop they may well be on a day off the next day, you are then into asking them kindly to work their day off - which I have to admit is not normally a problem with FlyBe crew.
The problem is you only have one set of crew who are away from base and are only capable of doing so much.
Trust me, FlyBe do not cancel flights on a whim.
Look at it from the other side of the coin, the last thing they want is to upset customers.
If the fog had lifted in the morning no doubt you would have expected the flight to go. In order to achieve this the crews at LGW have to be on duty from early in the morning so that they can be contacted and sent to airport at short notice. Even if this was the case it would take around 2 hours from phoning the crew at the hotel to departing. The fact that they are in a hotel and 'well rested' as you put it is incorrect. It is not possible to rest and be on standby for immediate call out at the same time, the only way they can LEGALLY rest is to be off duty i.e. not contactable.
Also how do we know that the whole crew were even available to operate. If they had already had an unscheduled night stop they may well be on a day off the next day, you are then into asking them kindly to work their day off - which I have to admit is not normally a problem with FlyBe crew.
The problem is you only have one set of crew who are away from base and are only capable of doing so much.
Trust me, FlyBe do not cancel flights on a whim.
Look at it from the other side of the coin, the last thing they want is to upset customers.
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Life doesn't revolve around the Channel Islands.
For a start the Jersey Dash flies onward to the IOM during its duty JER-LCY.
The inter-island Dash comes from Exeter which also goes onto Dublin. Also the Dash Q400 comes inter-island from BHX, it also has a program out of BHX.
The other Dash into JER from LCY comes from BHD. It also has a full program elswhere.
So minesagrolsch, Flybe's aircraft are not all dedicated to JER/GCI.
Flybe have to remember to not P*** many other pax off by fouling up the other parts of the jigsaw puzzle.
For a start the Jersey Dash flies onward to the IOM during its duty JER-LCY.
The inter-island Dash comes from Exeter which also goes onto Dublin. Also the Dash Q400 comes inter-island from BHX, it also has a program out of BHX.
The other Dash into JER from LCY comes from BHD. It also has a full program elswhere.
So minesagrolsch, Flybe's aircraft are not all dedicated to JER/GCI.
Flybe have to remember to not P*** many other pax off by fouling up the other parts of the jigsaw puzzle.
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puddle j.
Point(s) taken.
Capt A,
Forgive me,but who mentioned anything about a Dash ?
I was talking about the LGW/Jer and LGW/Gci routes,if you could be bothered to read the posting properly before jumping in with your size eights.They are operated by 146's which basically go back and forwards the whole time,unlike those even smaller puddle jumpers that obviously "Dash" about all over the place.
Ding ding,over to you !!
Point(s) taken.
Capt A,
Forgive me,but who mentioned anything about a Dash ?
I was talking about the LGW/Jer and LGW/Gci routes,if you could be bothered to read the posting properly before jumping in with your size eights.They are operated by 146's which basically go back and forwards the whole time,unlike those even smaller puddle jumpers that obviously "Dash" about all over the place.
Ding ding,over to you !!