As far as I am aware, they are only picking up passengers in Dundee and flying them from EDI. No one is able to book EDI-AMS or vice versa.

Does anyone know the full reason behind this? I can only imagine it is to do with UKBF (perhaps issues around staffing) as there is nothing operationally affecting AMS or DND as anything stopping the Dash 8 from using DND would surely prevent the Dornier to STN as well, and that's operating as normal. Landing fees must be more at EDI than DND too and the bus transport to/from EDI must also be costing a fair bit too, so the chances of it being a BE commercial decision seems slim too.

Perhaps this crane is not helping matters?
Q) EGPX/QOBCE/IV/M/AE/000/004/5627N00258W001
B) FROM: 16/09/08 06:52C) TO: 16/12/09 23:59 EST
E) TOWER CRANE OPR 1.94NM 082DEG TRUE FM DUNDEE ARP, PSN 562723N
0025801W. MAX HGT 332FT AMSL/332FT AGL

Yes, UKBF sounds plausible.

I can't figure out why it would be a crewing issue? Explain.

It must be DND specific and only to international arrivals. The crewing issue can't be the reason as the crew are neither AMS or DND based and if they have crew to operate to/from EDI, then that same crew would be going to DND for what must only be about 15 minutes more flying time, there won't be any hours issues. If there was then it's taken 6 months to come to light as well!

I flew this route in June, literally a week or so after it launched. It's great, however on arrival back to DND it's clear the airport is not set up for international arrivals. Immigration control is an old gate room (DND had 2, now has 1 active gate room). There is one desk for all and that leads through a knocked out wall to the baggage reclaim area, the same one as used by domestic arrivals. There is a pop up customs notice and a small table for searching, which was unmanned when I arrived and then one small door and you're back into the check in hall, the same route as a domestic arrival.

The issue must be surrounding UKBF as I really cannot think what else would affect this and cause so much secrecy. I firstly thought Dundee city would have no UKBF staff based there, however there is a port in Broughty Ferry which must have customs staff, so one could be sent from there to meet this 1 flight a day. It's a little far for an EDI or ABZ based staff member to travel, but then again, that could be the issue.

I imagine that if it was a UKBF problem they'd be screaming it from the rooftops and that the local MP would very quickly make them make the problem go away? It would be cheaper to bus one UKBF person from EDI than a planeload of people the other direction?

I'm also imagining that if it was a FlyBe problem then all the sorts of people that FlyBe could be missing and that somehow aren't equally necessary in order to fly the same plane to and from EDI instead can be replaced far more cheaply than a coach can be hired?

And I'm imaging that for the majority of ground staff at DND can be replaced more cheaply than the compensation FlyBe will be wanting if this is DNDs balls up?

However, the airport is still open for other flights? So is it that they're missing something less easily replaceable like fire cover or someone from the the control tower that's only needed for a big (for DND) passenger flight?

Or in other words, nobody knows? :sad:

The problem may well be lack of UKBF cover. Darling Theresa whilst Home Secretary issued an order that 100% of all inbound international flights would be met by Border Force officers. Failure to do so would be a disciplinary offence and has led to a few high powered dismissals.
The nearest Border Force Office to Dundee is Edinburgh airport, inbound flights to Dundee would involve bussing officers up for a five minute job and then returning to Edinburgh. This would take three or four officers the best part of an entire shift eating up precious resources both in terms of working hours and a lack of cover back at base.
Resourcing to risk is not an option as ALL international flights MUST be met. The same scenario exists down at Exeter airport where UKBF staff either drive down from Bristol airport or up from Plymouth docks to meet international flights. One international flight into Dundee is just not viable from a UKBF perspective.

If Mohammed won't go to the mountain...... :sad:

But surely that was known before flights started, why is it suddenly a problem?

Some actually facts would be nice.

If it is UKBF related, as I think it is, then the Government must have been providing this for several months already and as they even agreed to fund this route they must have known and agreed to provide UKBF coverage to DND to enable it to happen. I know the UK Government likes to treat aviation as a nuisance, but pulling away a border guard from a route after promising funding for it seems a bit odd.

The nearest UKBF agents can't just come from EDI though, there must be some kind of customs operation at the port of Dundee, which handles plenty of international ships, who can be freed up for an hour to get out to the airport and back? Right now there are 3 ships heading for Dundee Port from Spain, Singapore and Sweden, as well as Dutch and Aussie registered ships on their way out which must have come in from abroad at some stage. There must be a UKBF presence at the docks.

When they don't release specific details about an issue then people speculate, but it seems neither side want to say what it is that's causing this. The reputation of BE and DND being able to handle international traffic is at stake here.

This article would suggest it's an airspace issue

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news...-here-to-stay/

Sounds about right

The first 3 paras of the article, which is the only bit that refers to a possible reason states:

"A senior government source, who spoke to The Courier on the condition of anonymity, said the route will be cancelled altogether because of “safety reasons” due to the number of light aircraft in the area.

However Flybe rejected the claim and also moved to clarify that the company’s Loganair franchise flights from Dundee to London Stansted will not be affected by the Amsterdam change.

A spokeswoman for the airline said: “Flybe does not intend to cancel the route at the present time and would again apologise to those customers inconvenienced by the current temporary disruption."

So why does the same issue not affect the STN flights?

If it is fire CAT or ground crew issue, or the airspace issue, then switch the route to the DO328 and BE could use their D8 somewhere else.

They could retime the AMS flight to fit in between the STN flights.

Whatever the issue is, it's not been a problem for nearly 6 months and wasn't an issue when the route was being planned. Airspace wasn't an issue when the F50 or ATR used to fly in to DND, nor was it a problem when BE used to offer BHD and BHX as well as the flights to LCY. Adding one extra flight a day should not be an issue for light aircraft in the area, surely?

Flybe have operated Dundee-Jersey flights for some time - why would they be any different? And Flybe has operated into plenty airfields without controlled airspace for years - e.g. Exeter and Newquay.
OK Dundee has no radar but commercial flights get a radar service from Leuchars down to 2000ft if necessary and non-transponding traffic has no impact on that.
There have been no airproxes of any sort anywhere near Dundee this year. So I'd be amazed if it was anything to do with the amount of light aircraft in the area.

The aircraft and crew are needed for the more "profitable" routes.... As Flybe are a bit short on crew and can't train their new pilots quick enough.:eek:

A Q400 requires Cat 6 RFFS and DND only has this for a couple of hours per day (or by special arrangement). The rest of the time it is Cat 4 RFFS. The 328 is Cat 4. Cat 6 requires 2 appliances whereas Cat 4 only needs one (and a smaller one at that). I'm just speculating but could it be that DND has a short-term problem with staff, equipment or something else RFFS related?

It's an airline factor not an airport/BF issue, and unrelated to aircraft and crew availability

The AMS has been put back on sale with flights resuming December 1st.

After 25 years the JER flight has been cancelled by Airways, the holiday company who charters the aircraft for a local travel agent.

Source

If it's not Crew or aircraft availability, but is still airline related then what is the issue exactly?