Depends on the vortex wake categories of the helicopters involved and that of the fixed-wing aircraft using the adjacent runway. If the majority of helicopters are categorised as "small" and the majority of fixed-wing aircraft are "light", "small" or "medium" there's no vortex wake separation stipulated.

The Police helicopter based at LTN is a "light" and so vortex wake separation is required in all cases except when the fixed-wing aircraft are also in the "light" category.

The Met. seems to be perfectly capable of operating its helicopters from a purpose-built (and secure) off-airfield site at Lippitts Hill. The East Midlands Air Support Unit seems perfectly capable of operating from the disused (except for gliders) airfield at Husbands Bosworth. Whilst it may be considered preferable and perhaps ideal, to operate police air support units from airports and active airfields, there's no operational need unless a helicopter is returning in bad weather and needs to fly an 'instrument approach' for recovery.

If the local councils (Herts & Beds, also Luton Borough) feel sufficiently strongly, no doubt they will make available a suitable area of land adjacent to LTN but sufficiently far away (therefore, outside the existing airport boundary) to facilitate semi-autonomous Police helicopter operations.

;)

This police squabble with the authorities at Luton is not [as far as I am aware] anything more than a dislike of being offered a site, being allowed to spend money on surveying it and then being told at the 11th hour [or 11-45 in this case] that the authority had changed its mind and that all that planning was out of the window. This was as far as is evident a day or so before the final signup to the new site was planned. Shock horror prevails ... and what do we do now? Oh, and by the way you may have thought you had until next year but now we have changed the goal post even more and we want you out well before Christmas.

A new site is/was always on the cards but it might have helped a teeny bit if Luton had let it be known that they did not really want the fuzz operating there at all long term rather than running a surprise party deal over it!

It seems pretty good grounds for being a little peeved!

And by the way, a detail, The Met operate 3 AS355N helicopters out of Lippitts Hill and have peaked at 5 in the days when they still had the Bell 222s.

Thanks for the detail PANews - which rather underlines my point, then don't you think...??
:E

Chiltern police helicopter
 

From CAP493
"If the local councils (Herts & Beds, also Luton Borough) feel sufficiently strongly, no doubt they will make available a suitable area of land adjacent to LTN but sufficiently far away (therefore, outside the existing airport boundary) to facilitate semi-autonomous Police helicopter operations."
Lets Hope the old bill are monitoring this and my advise to them is to contact the land own to the south of the airport with the intentions of buying a plot roughly about half a mile south of the current boundary. Then contact Herts local authority for planning permission which I am sure they will oblige as this will stop the expansion of the airport into their area. I am also sure this will get the support of the local residents as well, as I am sure they would prefer one helicopter operating than a brand new runway.This would also show the airport boss's what a bad taste it leaves in people's mouth when they use underhand trick's. Thanks for the pointer, PANEWS you may want to pass this snippet on to your subscribers:E

An interesting idea, Daft bat - but I think you might find that ACDL has beaten everyone to it!

Chopper Coppers
 

PANews I think you might well have hit the nail straight on the head with your last post...and to be honest who can blame them!!

CAP493 do I really have to list other aviation facilities similar to Luton that conduct business without any of this perceived fuss thats been made?? C'mon get real and back to my original point.......when the heat gets too much and the PR inferno is getting to hot to handle, just who are the authorities gonna point the finger at?? Someone somewhere has said/done something to change the mind of airport at this late stage. I wonder if they have to gahooners to stand up like a man and admit it was them?

Suddenly being the holder of the book that you beat people with does have its cross to bare!!

What's your point FedupwithBLAH?? Whether or not LLAO's disinterested in having an operation at Luton that doesn't generate any income, and whether or not this is a reasonable position to take, the facts as quoted are facts (take a look at the procedures for yourself - they're available on the CAA's website) and it's probably just a case of LLAO being prepared to use these facts as just reason for not wishing any longer to support the police helicopter operation at Luton. After all, LLAO is a commercial business, not a charitable institution or social/public service industry!

from Ebenzeer
After all, LLAO is a commercial business, not a charitable institution or social/public service industry!
yes I agree however they need to tread carefully, it may be the public or the people that represent them that will have the final say about any expansion.Any industry has to take in consideration, concerns on the local community when they want their support.That is the point I have written to my MP about, losing our Police helicopter from the area does LLAO care about local community issue's

Chopper Coppers
 

ebenezer wrote "What's your point FedupwithBLAH?? Whether or not LLAO's disinterested in having an operation at Luton that doesn't generate any income, and whether or not this is a reasonable position to take, the facts as quoted are facts (take a look at the procedures for yourself - they're available on the CAA's website) and it's probably just a case of LLAO being prepared to use these facts as just reason for not wishing any longer to support the police helicopter operation at Luton. After all, LLAO is a commercial business, not a charitable institution or social/public service industry!"

If thats the case why wasn't this identified from day one and not at the last knockings?? cages being rattled eh? This is getting interesting!!:D

A very reasonable question, FedupwithBLAH. However, I think you'll find that the issue WAS identified from 'day one' - at least by those who knew what to look for. Advice was I understand, also sought from the CAA which confirmed the mandatory operating requirements as originally highlighted to LLAO. Whilst I cannot claim to know what occurs at all other similar locations in the UK, there was an identical issue that surfaced a few years ago at Heathrow when BAA was approached with a proposal to resurrect the Heathrow/Gatwick helicopter 'Link' and it was determined that to operate autonomously from runway 09R/27L it would need a landing and take-off area beyond the 760 metre-point, something that just couldn't be accommodated with the aprons and taxiways associated with the Cargocentre and T4.

Should other UK civil (controlled) airfields and airports choose to ignore this vortex wake departure separation requirement (which is the crux of the matter) they do so at their peril because if as a result, a departing helicopter has an accident, the lawyers involved in the subsequent criminal proceedings and civil litigation will have a field day (as the hapless individuals at Milan/Linate discovered).

:eek:

Chopper Coppers
 

Cap493 you imply that operating within 760 metres is not permitted, that just isnt so is it?!!

Section 1 chapter 3 page 11 of the Manual of Air Traffic Services Part 1 subsection 9.4.1 details minimum spacing at the time aircraft are airborne. Spacing of 2 - 3 minutes max in most cases, still a hell of a lot quicker and cheaper for the coppers to wait the set period then have to fly from another base that isnt so strategically placed as Luton. Do you not think the coppers would have considered that during the negotiation period and factored that in to their deployment critera? Also with the new runway being built wouldnt the postion for the new base be well outside the 760 metre boundry, making all this really quite irrellevant?

Have LLAO been given all the facts??

The Police helicopter might be a hot potato on this forum but I doubt that most people give a monkeys about it except Wigmore residence who will get a quieter life once it has gone. A couple of years ago the police unit was going to move down the road anyway to RAF Henlow or RAF Halton so while this adds a few minutes flying time getting to Luton it reduces flying time for other locations.

And now for some real news, I am fed up reading about the Copper Chopper!

http://www.iii.co.uk/news/?type=afxn...action=article

http://www.businessworld.ie/livenews...ollingnews.htm

Well done Buster! Shame Luton is not in a position to take any Stansted based aircraft.:{

I see the M1 roadwork’s is having a serious affect on airport traffic actually joining the motorway due to extra congestion.

Bunny Desks
 

So named Bunny Desks because they should be ready by Easter. :) :) :)
There is also a new baggage carousel downstairs.
JSW.

It may be a bit of a pain for the Bean Counters of Luton Airport and the residents of Wigmore Lane, but I am sure the strategic advantage of having the Police helicopter at the airport is obvious. The airport must benefit from the enhanced security, at no cost, and the population of Luton must benefit from the overt presence of the helicopter.

I wonder if the insurance premiums for the airport will go up now that the Police helicopter will not have a presence at the airport.

And when residents of Luton see burglars making good their escape because the helicopter is behind the drag curve, due to extra travelling time, will I am sure be asking questions.

:zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz: :zzz:You’re not on day release are you?

I have two coppers living in my street, maybe I should ask for a reduction in my premiums

on this day April 4 2000
 

From the BBC

2000: Spring freeze brings chaos
Severe weather has forced the closure of one of Britain's main airports, Luton, near London, as blizzards and flooding have caused widespread chaos.
More than two weeks into British Summer Time, much of the country has been experiencing its coldest April day on record.

Large swathes of countryside were blanketed in snow, bringing traffic to a standstill and paralysing transport systems.

Planes diverted

Luton Airport was closed for more than 10 hours during the night as snow covered the runway. It reopened at 0800 BST (0700 GMT) this morning.

About 20 planes were diverted to Birmingham and Stansted instead.

Full story at http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/d...00/4380415.stm

In a word - no
:E

Me too Buster! Much more interestingly, one wonders what effect BAA's rumoured decision to raise its fees at Stansted, will have on Luton's business. For example, would it cause MoL to seek to transfer a significant proportion of Ryanair services to Luton away from Stansted.

Problem for Luton is that gate-wise, it's virtually full overnight and so it's difficult to see where any additional aircraft could be accommodated anyway.

Although the latest (interim) development plans see an additional eight narrow-body (six wide-body) gates on a new south-east apron plus a few additional gates elsewhere (created by redesigning existing stands) even if planning permission is granted later this year and is not appealed by the local NIMBYs, it'll be 18 months or-so before any come on line.

Then there's the redevelopment of the 'old' terminal into a much improved and enlarged baggage reclaim area to be completed.

Despite the improvements already seen, if Luton's not careful, it could miss the boat!

:uhoh: