PalmAir
 

I was wondering if the EAAC sell off was effecting the PalmAir operation?

Palmairs flights are departing on time as usual. The low cost service is still set to go ahead, so my guess is that IF EAC are sold it wont affect their operations. If for some reason the planes are nolonger available then Palmair will simply lease from another company. They used to lease from Flightline before they switched to EAC in autumn 1999.

PALMAIR BOH-PIK Grounded !!!
 

Palmair's recently announced lo-cost service betwwen BOH and PIK has already been cancelled before it even got off the ground..

The reason............

BUZZ have included the route in their new operation which will commence on the 30th Mar 2003.

Palmair as you can imagine are not best pleased :mad: :mad:

I still don't know what Buzz are playing at. They are always advertising that they are flying to main airports - surely then they should be flying BOH - GLA instead of PIK.

As always, nobody really knows what they're up to or what the thinking behind their moves is. This announcement surprised me as much as when they announced that the only new route additions for the last new timetables were only destinations in France.

We'll see how long they'll be about...

We shall see what all this shakes out to.

I was a little suprised Palmair (Bath Travel) choose Pk instead of Gl. As they have a unique selling point these other low cost low quality operaters have not. They are a trusted local travel agent group with a respected high income customer base.

If they have or could create capacity, working with EAc or others. They could fill the seats with higher yeald pax than others. No this doesn't mean aim to be the next go-easy. But use your local background and owned travel group. Result nich market, moderatley high margins.......

E & OE

Irishman. As part of the Buzz package for passengers landing at Glasgow Prestwick they have negotiated reduced rail fares to anywhere in Scotland direct from the Prestwick airport railway station.

Now if Glasgow offered that ......... ;) ;)

Oscar the point is that because they operate with travel agents they might get higher yielding pax (which I doubt) but the cost involved kills the yield straight away. Add to that the noi frills with frills concept they mentioned and you have a strange product with too much costs..

Like a Bus
 

This is typical like waiting for a Bus, the airport has waited 20 years for a flight then two turn up together...


----------------------------------------------------------------------------
PALMAIR bosses have scrapped plans to operate a service to Glasgow following the news that one of Europe's leading low cost airlines had chosen Bournemouth as its new base.

Palmair chairman Peter Bath made the announcement yesterday a day after budget airline Buzz unve-iled the seven destinations it will serve from Bour-nemouth Airport.

Bournemouth-based airline Palmair European revealed its plans on October 29 for the twice-daily Scottish service from Bournemouth to Glasgow Prestwick Airport.

Fares were set to start from £14.99 plus taxes and bosses said the initiative, which was due to start before Christmas, could have brought thousands of more passengers through Bournemouth Airport.

In a statement to the Daily Echo Mr Bath explained the company's "reluctant" decision to withdraw the service.

He said: "There had been a number of discussions with Prestwick Airport and Bournemouth Airport over a long period but on the day of our press release we were advised that the planned route was likely to be duplicated. The following day Buzz announced its plans to base aircraft at Bournemouth and we drew the conclusion that Buzz would also be flying to Glasgow Prestwick from Bournemouth.

"Plainly, there are not enough passengers to fill 1,000 seats daily between the two airports and if it is the intention of Buzz to fly to and from Scotland, the Palmair service would have an adverse effect on their planned activities from Bournemouth.

"In the interests of helping the continued expansion of Bournemouth Airport and the hundreds of jobs which the airport believes will be created, Palmair has reluctantly decided not to go ahead with its Scottish service for the time being."

All Palmair's other holiday services will continue as normal.

FlyingIrishman. buzz does fly to the majors where appropriate, hence Frankfurt is really Frankfurt, Paris is really Paris etc. However it also flies to regionals, such as Bergerac or La Rochelle. In the case of BOH-PIK is is being sold honestly as Bournemouth-Prestwick, unlike some airlines which would probably sell it as LONDON(Southwest)-GLASGOW(Southwest)

Herod

Ryanair fly to both Bournemouth and Prestwick. They do not call Bournemouth London-Southwest and PIK is sold as Glasgow- Prestwick, which just happens to be the same as Buzz. The Buzz posters and flyers in Bournemouth all state Glasgow-Prestwick.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

Do they have a website, or email Palmair?

AVIATION TRAINER TOO

Afraid your guess is wrong. I actually live in the South, so have a knowledge of Bath Travel.
They are spead quite well across the South coast. They are fully owned, so no extra costs what so ever. They do attract a particually higher income customer base than the usual high street chains (they specialize in cruises and packages with a local departure point).
They are trusted and respected in the area. Regarded as a cut above the usual, group owned faceless monoliths.
For these reasons as I said before. They could have captured a nich market with higher yeilds than the low quality outfits.

Thomas Cook Airlines

You can access www.Bathtravel.com which is the parent company and has details of the Palmair 2003 day trip schedule, they say its the largest from any UK airport. The summer 2003 schedules are on the BOH airport site at www.flybournemouth.com. The Bathtravel site contains contact info but as far as I know they don't have email details on their site.

I detect that Palmair are very very scared of competition. However isn't competition an inevitable factor in business? IT is letting its big brother win the fight even before they have jumped into the ring!

However I detect that they are scared to go down the same path that I think happened a few years ago. Palmair MkI used to operate a Flightline 146-300 in the same white livery with red titles! That idea died and the aircraft concerned went back to Flightline. This is going back a few years ago but their first route was to Palma, hence the name Palmair!!!!

To answer FlyingIrishman's question of why Buzz went to Bournemouth. Well they have hardly any passenger traffic so I suspect that they had very attractive rates offered to them and BIA will have bent over backwards to accommodate Buzz!. That won't be difficult when you have Southampton just up the road, which is of course run by the BAA! Same story with PIK - lower charges.

Mister Geezer's history is a bit out.

Bath Travel began the Palmair name in the late 50's/early 60's when they began operating charters to Palma by buying in capacity.

A few years ago, because so many charter airlines had come and gone, they decided they needed more control over their flights and decided to form their own airline. This was the "Palmair Mk 1" described by Mister Geezer. And it did not die!

Palmair soon realised that the 146-300 was too small, too slow and too short ranged for their network. There were too many tech stops in northern France. They ended the arrangement with Flightline and IMMEDIATELY replaced it with the 737-200 arrangement with European. Nothing about being scared - they were confident enough to expand the programme with the 737.

Well done Groundloop, glad you set the history right there.

Palmair are now using 2 B737-200's from EAL and my 'contacts' tell me that the low cost services are still going ahead but the destinations are obviously changing. Palmair will carry around 140,000 PAX through BOH this year and they have increased capacity for summer 2003 by 20%. This coupled with any low cost service just goes to show what a healthy, small company they are. The future looks very good for them. They weren't voted Britains best airline and the worlds third best in 2001 (Which magazine) for nothing!
:)

Not to be confused with these little guys!

http://www.palmaircharter.com/index.html

Palmair mkI
 

Well said Ground loop & stevobeevo,

As someone around for palmair mkI we don't feel that they got scared. In fact we like to think that palmair mkI went a long way to setting up the foundations for Palmair mk II. Cracking little operation.

What about palmair mkIII tho? :p

re: Palmair MkIII

Any truth in the poss. there may be some 320s heading over to BOH in the not-too-distant future?

>>You can access www.Bathtravel.com<<

Strange, in their special offers section they mention a
£66 return fare via bmi to EDI.? Perhaps Palmair should
have chose that airport rather than PIK.? :D

It was mentioned recently that 50% of PIK's pax are actually
going to Edinburgh, perhaps Palmair should be taking the
'mountain' to Mohammad.?

>>I still don't know what Buzz are playing at. They are always advertising that they are flying to main airports - surely then they should be flying BOH - GLA instead of PIK. <<

A recent Scotjet/Gillair service from GLA was withdrawn
I fail to see how Buzz can resurrect the route where others
have failed. :( Unless they create a new market from PIK that
found the GLA-BOH service either expensive or inconvenient.

Heres the latest on Buzz at BOH - over 4,000 seats sold in 7 days

buzz LAUNCH AT BOURNEMOUTH AIRPORT IS A HIGH FLYING SUCCESS

buzz, the UK’s third largest low cost airline, has had a phenomenal reaction to the launch of its second base in Bournemouth. As well as five European routes, buzz will be flying to two domestic destinations, seeing the South Coast benefit for the first time from low cost fares to Scotland and Northern Ireland at a fraction of the price of British Airways.

Since they went on sale a week ago, over four thousand seats have already been sold on routes from the airport to Amsterdam, Belfast, Bergerac, Glasgow-Prestwick, Malaga, Murcia and Paris. Murcia, Malaga and Bergerac are currently the most popular destinations.

Says buzz Chief Commercial Officer, Tony Camacho, ‘The reaction and support we have had from people living in Bournemouth and surrounding areas has been fantastic. People on the South Coast are obviously making the most of buzz’s competitive fares which give them easy access to Scotland, Northern Ireland and a network of European destinations. This is just the start of our plans for Bournemouth. In the next year we will continue to expand and develop our destination portfolio which will position Bournemouth as one of the UK’s leading low cost bases.’

Thanks to Groundloop for keeping me up to date

I still feel that Palmair pulled out of the new route purely because they are scared of the competition on the route. I can't think of pulling out for any other reason? Since Bath Travel have a good customer base in the Dorset area then that is going to give them the upper hand in attracting BOH based pax. That is providing that the fares for buzz and Palmair would of been very similar if not the same. I would think that many local people would of preferred to support a local company and one that they may of used before than using buzz. Many carriers actively seek routes on where they can compete and win some of the market share - not avoid competition when a rival beats them to it! That sort of logic would make the shareholders of many airlines a tad angry at the wasted opportunity. I did find the news feature on BBC1 quite amusing when it was aired on TV last week. It seemed strange and illogical that Palmair were throwing in the towel so early!

If EGNR's post is true then that would of given Palmair the upperhand in the low cost battle. The A320 is now being regarded as the better machine to use on low cost ops. Despite used 737s as a whole, being cheaper to set up in the early days of operation, the A320 is the winner in the long term. Look at Jetblue in the US who operate an all Airbus fleet and Good Jet in Sweden who do the same. Both airlines wanted to operate new aircraft from the start, hence the A320 came into the frame straight away and not the 737.

I wish buzz all the best on their new expansion from BOH. I fear that Peter Bath will be crying into his pint in the months and years to come if buzz's latest sales figures are anything to go by. If he does intend to operate an A320 then that will just rub salt into the wound since that could of given him the upperhand. Palmair should stand their ground and take some of the low cost market share from BOH, before buzz absorb it all and it would then be too late! Buzz are obviously serious about expanding at BOH and that would leave Palmair to focus purely on IT ops where it could of had a slice of both pies if it fought head to head with buzz.

I think you are missing the point Oscar Dude. I have a good knowledge of the south and know Peter Bath even personally.

The point is how much do travel agents cost: X (even if you only take a fraction of that cost)
How much a CRS based booking system: Y
How much does ticketing cost Z

How much a web based booking engine: A

As long as the yield of the pax is such that you can absorbe X+Y+Z and still be lower than A you have a change.

But than they lease in aircraft, European needs to make a return on the flying and takes a profit. The travel agent needs a profit and the sales organisation as well. Buzz on the other hand is three in one and thus has a lower profit requirement..

Last but not least they had the strange idea of no frills with frills...

I am not knocking Bath Travel but the time for travel agents for straight fwd Friends and Family tickets as well as Business tickets is going. Their power will be in holiday packages alone..

Well you’ve got to hand it to Bath Travel/Palmair . All this week Buzz has had a full-page advert in the local paper, but tonight two pages before the Buzz advert Bath Travel have a full page advertising Buzz flights with full timetable. It’s Buzz prices plus £10 booking fee. Bath knows their local cliental well, a lot of who are elderly and not Internet literate and probably prefer to book local. They obviously won’t take the majority of the booking for Buzz flights out of Bournemouth, but enough to make it worth their while. Making the most out of a bad situation.
History in the making Sunday when Bath Travel make the first Commercial Jumbo flight out of Bournemouth for New York.

Joe Curry ..

Where was it mentioned ?

What a ridiculous website Bath Travel is running!
Does anyone have any e-mail or fax number for this company?

Palmair - 'larger aircraft'
 

Hello, I was just wondering if anybody knows what the Bournemouth Airport website means when it says, about Palmair, that "Menorca, Alicante and Faro all benefit from increased frequency and larger aircraft"? It has said that on the website for months.

What are the 'larger aircraft'? Have European bought some 737-300s? Is it no longer happening after the recent events at European?

Today on a visit to the airport I noticed that G-CEAC's doors were taped up. What is happening with that 737?

Didn't Palmair used to operate using Flightlines 146's...??? The comment of "larger aircraft" may be refering to that if it's been on the website a while...

I went to ACI out of BOH the other day, all the aircraft parked up behind the hangar is a very sad sight - hope they can resurrect something soon...

Yes, they used Flightline's only -300, G-BPNT. Surely that can't be what they're talking about, the changeover to European happened years ago!

Talking about 'Alpha Charlie', why would they tape up the doors like that? Could it be having a re-spray?

Palmair did operate the BAe 146 300 from BOH for many years on a lease from Flightline based in SEN , hence the name Palmair Flightline
From the begining of winter 1999 Palmair began using a 737 200 on lease from European Aviation in a 124 seat con fig , and Palmair European appeared on the side of the a/c
The reason being they wanted a longer range a/c to new destinations that the 146 was restricted on ie TFS , FNC , CFU etc and greater seat capacity
From the begining of summer 2003 Palmair leased another 737 from European G- CEAC and G- CEAF now operated a growing increase in services from BOH on behalf of Bath Travel
The plan this summer was to operate a 737 300 and 737 200 which European was planning to purchase , possibly from Easy Jet , however as we all know the problems with European have put a stop to this
At present CEAF and CEAC are planned to operate this summer as Palmair have an expanded flying programme from BOH
Have however heard rumours that Palmair are looking at both Excel Airways and Astraeus to run there summer programme from mid April possibly as problems getting credit , fuel etc from European
Channel Express based at BOH were approached by Palmair to help but have a fully commited operation this summer , but thats not to say they could go into partnership from the winter 2004

EAL/Palmair future without -200s
 

I'm sure that this has been covered many times by the people on this board, but following a recent topic that in March 2005 all Boeing 737-200s will be withdrawn in European airspace, can anyone please tell me if EAL or their charter airline partner Palmair have expressed any plans for a substitute aircraft?

Also, when buzz announced their plans to launch no-frills services from BOH, Palmair pulled out of their plans to do so. Why is this still the case now buzz are no longer in existence? What has stopped them from launching services?

I heard they would be replacing with -300s, kind of becoming like the -200s now as the "mainstream" re-eqip with NGs and 320s!

There was another thread which suggested that the 200s would NOT have to be withdrawn because of EU legislation,but individual airports COULD ban them!

If I find it again,I'll refer you to it!

In fact,it\'s the very next on the page!

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...hreadid=136700

Palmair (Bath Travel) have a few problems themselves at present and with the recent turmoil and redundancies at European their first concern has been to safeguard their summer (and next years) programme. All else has taken a back seat.
Before their recent troubles European had planned to introduce 737-300s this year but the financial troubles finished those plans for now. Alan Bath certainly had talks with Channex earlier this year and with the Channex fleet expanding (order for 2 more aircraft announced today) maybe he will switch to them for next year. Or alternatively maybe European will pull a rabbit out of the hat and find some backing for new aircraft. Either way Palmair will be flying newer aircraft before long.

JUST WONDERED HOW BATH TRAVEL / PALMAIR ARE DOING AS NOTICED THAT THEY HAVE CANCELLED THE REMAINING SERIES OF FLIGHTS TO ALICANTE ON A TUESDAY AND ALSO CANCELLED THE PROGRAMME TO LAS PALMAS

THE WINTER PROGRAMME FROM BOURNEMOUTH ASLO LOOKS DOWN FROM LAST YEAR , HOPE ALL IS WELL ON BOOKINGS ETC ?

GOOD TO SEE THAT THOMSON HOLIDAYS ARE GIVING BOH A GO AGAIN FROM NEXT SUMMER

Markeyd
SHHH!!!!!!!!
Take your "caps lock" off
watp,iktch

Do both companies have an up to date website, because I can find no contact details or any "latest news" features for either airline?

Surely not keeping an up to date website, which is such an important marketing tool, is not good for attracting new business?

Despite lots of the 742 work going to Air Atlanta Europe/Icelandic, I can't see where most of the 732 work would go to.

Lots of the ChannEx aircraft are not available for medium term leases, because they're all tied down to existing clients or Jet2, and I don't see Air Atlanta going into this market, or Hola Airlines actively expanding.

Channex would jump at the chance to take on the Palmair flying. Fits in so well with their BOH base and would employ two aircraft full time. Regarding aircraft availability 737s are easy to find, cheap to purchase and Channex's credit is good (unlike European who had to cancel their latest plans to purchase 737-300s). Could happen.
European website (not often updated) is www.eaac.co.uk and Palmair can be found off the Bath Travel site at www.bathtravel.com/palmair/

Palmair going to Astraeus?
 

Anyone got any info on the rumour of the Palmair operation down at BOH switching from European Air Charter B-737-200 to B-737-300 operated by Astraeus. I understand that it will be a similar set up with A/C, flight crews, engineering & operations supplied by AEU & A/C painted up in Palmair colours with their cabin crew onboard.

It makes sense if EAF's 737-200's are off to OZJET....