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-   -   Aer Lingus UK (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/637353-aer-lingus-uk.html)

BHD2BFS 10th Dec 2020 21:10

Aer Lingus UK
 
Following the announcement of Aer Lingus UK and for it to be based in Belfast for its launch in Manchester do we know what the future holds for EI UK in the Northern Ireland? You would assume it will have offices in the north now also.

Aer Lingus (U.K.) Limited is the latest airline seeking access to the US market. The newly established subsidiary of Aer Lingus is based in Belfast, Northern Ireland and will be the aircraft operator of record for the company’s planned Manchester, UK base in Summer 2021.”

biddedout 11th Dec 2020 09:13

Assuming the Corona restrictions ease as we go into the summer, this could be a much welcome jobs boost for Manchester airport and associated employers. It should also provide a glimmer of hope for the many UK Airbus rated pilots who lost their jobs after the collapse of TCX , Mon etc. Lets hope the UK Gov are incentivizing and encouraging Aer Lingus to do the right thing in return for rubber stamping the deal.

Alteagod 11th Dec 2020 14:48

I guess that is also so the BHD/LHR can still operate. I wonder if they will put 320 on G reg for this route.

JSCL 11th Dec 2020 15:03

Given Stobart are going for a UK AOC too for Belfast ops, I would suggest so.

LTNman 11th Dec 2020 15:11

Good to see Aer Lingus getting around the EU bureaucracy and starting services from the U.K.

SWBKCB 11th Dec 2020 15:16

EU bureaucracy - can you clarify? My understanding it's UK law that's involved. We've taken back control.

lfc84 11th Dec 2020 20:26

LTNman

what has it got to do with the EU ?

CWL757 11th Dec 2020 21:28

First A330 will be reg'd G-UKEI apparently.

Buster the Bear 12th Dec 2020 20:59

The worry for Ireland is, that the airframes were supposed to be operating from Dublin, Cork and Shannon, the A321s opening new routes, plus replacing the 757s. No doubt IAG predict more profit from a Manchester base than keeping the airframes in Ireland.

EI-BUD 12th Dec 2020 21:05

I think you'll find that EI overall have additional frames in the pipeline. They also will be able to step up services from Ireland if needed, and when demand arises.
Manchester is an incremental opportunity. The airline has already said it is committed to Shannon, that was in the media some weeks ago. Some routes may not return immediately I'm guessing ex Dublin, and in the interim until they do Manchester makes sense.

Just a spotter 13th Dec 2020 18:41

According to The Irish Times, 2 A321 Neo LR's/XLR's will be going onto the G- registery.

The next two for delivery EI-LRE and RF are alreay built and carrying EI- markings, with 8 more on order following those two.

The Irish Times, 11th Dec 2020

Aer Lingus also intends using two new Airbus A321 long range (LR) jets, originally earmarked for the Republic, on the proposed Manchester-US routes.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ghts-1.4434422

ROKNA 14th Dec 2020 10:14

EI has 4 A321NEOLR's in service A-D, 4 still undelivered E-H, 2 are going to Manchester.

There is also an XLR order to follow on of 6.

SWBKCB 14th Dec 2020 10:24

The Irish Times article above refers to the two a/c to be delivered in Feb and March going on the UK register.


Airbus is due to deliver the A321LRs to Aer Lingus in February and March, when they will be registered in the UK.

TURIN 14th Dec 2020 10:31


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 10945106)
Good to see Aer Lingus getting around the EU bureaucracy and starting services from the U.K.

I think you'll find that its UK bureacracy that has required the re-registration of the a/c. If we were still in the EU this would not have been necessary. Leaving EASA is causing a right mess.

SWBKCB 14th Dec 2020 11:33

You are right if we were still in the EU this wouldn't be necessary but EASA aren't involved. Most countries reserve domestic flights for domestic operators, and similarly international air service agreements usually restrict flights to airlines between the two countries involved

ROKNA 14th Dec 2020 12:27

EI wouldn't have been required to submit or change anything if it wasn't for Brexit

EI is a UK domestic carrier and either held or holds the UK civil service contract from travel London - Belfast, so had to do some fancy footwork to keep flying, the route network out of Belfast has grown considerably to fill the gaps from Flybe.

EI also has some legacy traffic rights at Manchester which might come into play depending on the circumstances of Brexit as DUB-MAN-DUS/DUB-MAN-CPH etc.

Expect the A321NEO to make a least 1 rotation a day either domestically or to Dublin

Wardair 15th Dec 2020 08:04


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 10945106)
Good to see Aer Lingus getting around the EU bureaucracy and starting services from the U.K.

Indeed, always good to beat a bully

biddedout 15th Dec 2020 14:47

It has got very little to do with the EU and Aer Lingus wasn't being bullied. IAG's lawyers are more than capable of dealing with any bureaucratic bullies, not that there are any.

This service is being launched on the back of newly signed UK -US Air Service Agreement. Had the UK remained in the EU, they could have done the same using the EU-US open skies agreements and without the hassle of creating a UK Subsidiary. As it is, they are struggling to work around this new UK-US agreement due to ownership rules; rules agreed between the UK and US without EU interference.

They have had to create a UK operating company but the reality is that in relation to this UK-US agreement, they are a third country operator as they are ultimately owned by a Spanish consortium. Given the distressed state of the UK industry and the mounting job losses, I am surprised the DfT is even considering sponsoring this box ticking shell company as an "Airline of a Party". If it really is necessary to create competition on these routes post TCX, there are several UK airlines available to to do this work.

Rutan16 15th Dec 2020 15:40

Such as ?

Only fully UK airline company left of ANY significance is JET2 . Without exception ALL the others are significantly foreign owner invested !


biddedout 15th Dec 2020 15:50

I know what you mean. The definition of a UK company is very vague but in simple terms I am thinking of companies that have staff based in the UK, living in the UK paying income tax in the UK and occasionally paying a little corporation tax to HMG. Obviously, Jet 2 is the closest but others fit the bill more closely than Aer Lingus or Aer Lingus UK which would be operating on a big loan from a foreign company. I suspect that far from offering competition on the Atlantic, this is just Willie Walsh's final attempt to kick Sir RB in the nuts before retirement. If so, the only losers will be UK workers.

LGS6753 15th Dec 2020 17:40

The usual definition of foreign ownership is whether non-UK persons or entities own 50%+1 of the shares.

OzzyOzBorn 15th Dec 2020 17:51

Aer Lingus is just a brand-name within IAG, similar to British Airways, Iberia and Vueling. Ownership isn't the key driver here. Aer Lingus aircraft are better-suited to the MAN Transatlantic routes than those in the British Airways fleet. New A321LR's are available for JFK and BOS, and the A333's have a cabin layout which is well-suited to a leisure-heavy route ... expected to be used on MAN-MCO.

Rutan16 15th Dec 2020 17:53

biddedout

Again what is this vast list of UK based companies with the expertise to take on Delta/Virgin long haul from the regions even if we expand the coverage ?

BA not happening (See IAG and Aer Lingus UK brand)

With TCX and Monarch gone, that just leaves Tui and they already compete into Florida, Mexico, and the Caribbean however the North East seaboard scheduled service market is not in their DNA.

While Jet2 have operated odd Christmas charters to New York (this season cancelled for obvious reasons) longer programmes seem pretty distant to be honest.

The shrinkage of UK carriers over the last 18 months has removed significant deadwood imho.

As for Easyjet although they have A32xNG frames that could just about cross to the Eastern Seaboard again why would they if same aircraft can complete 4 shorter rotations in the same time period - simple economics

Finally the only other carrier I suppose would be Norwegian UK - however close to bust, aircraft grounded all over the place and new 787s returned to lessors while the Max issues well and truly devastated their erstwhile regional long haul proposals .

BTW they use/used contract labour much from third countries paid gross in Euros via middle man recruiting agencies in Eire and South East Asia - Nothing into our exchequer as they have made consistent losses so no corporate taxes either .

SWBKCB 15th Dec 2020 19:03

LGS6753

I would imagine the Americans will be very interested in ownership, and will look to use any requests for exemptions to their advantage.

Rutan16 16th Dec 2020 07:53

The EU-US OPENSKY treaty has already set significant precedent in these markets including ownership and cross border operations and other than bone headed Tory Brexiteer mentality their is nothing preventing continued participation as an annex just like Norway and Switzerland,

SWBKCB 16th Dec 2020 08:32

Hasn't a US-UK agreement just been signed?

MCDU2 16th Dec 2020 12:05

biddedout

I can assure you that with 35% UK tax versus 50% plus Irish there will be no trouble whatsoever with EI flight deck paying Her Majestys exchequer for the pleasure of spending 183 days tax resident:)

Just a spotter 21st Dec 2020 09:23

Being suggested elsewhere (and also carried by Jethros) that the two A330's being transferred to EIUK are EI-ELA and EDY, both 300's.

FWIW, LA is currenty titled St Patrick / Pádraig (transferred from EI-DUB and before that EI-ASI), the frame carrying the name of the Irish partron saint is generally considered the fleet flagship, but he (or at least one of the people the stories about him relate to) was probobally from Britian anyway, so something of a home coming!

davidjohnson6 21st Dec 2020 09:30

It puzzles me that the St Patrick aircraft is the flagship, yet aircraft names / reg are generally not publicised much to pax
Does Aer Lingus make any sort of effort to acknowledge this aircraft as having special significance in a way that ordinary non-spotter pax might notice while travelling ?

Shamrock350 21st Dec 2020 11:13

It’s just tradition at this point but did have at least some significance in the past, particularly in the media who would refer to aircraft involved in newsworthy events by their individual names.

Aer Lingus does still follow the tradition of naming their perceived flagship Patrick/Pádraig from the first Lockheed Constellation to the first 720, 747 and its eventual replacement A330 in the 90s and again the latest A330 replacement.

Like with any airline, the so called flagship is more of an internal label stemming from the heritage and history of the airline rather than something passengers should take note of.

Just a spotter 21st Dec 2020 11:24

The name of each aircraft is painted below the pilot windows, in Irish/'as gaeilge' on the right side and 'as béarla'/in English on the left

https://www.airteamimages.com/airbus...us_118690.html

https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/8674584

Skipness One Foxtrot 22nd Dec 2020 00:58

There was the story, true or otherwise, that the simulator was named after the most obscure Irish saint of then all..."St Thetic".

ericlday 22nd Dec 2020 07:10

Still waiting for Pat Thetic......sorry

Jn14:6 22nd Dec 2020 08:05

Absolutely true.
We used the Aer Lingus 737 sim in Dublin when I joined Orion. All their sims were named St.Thetic.

Bealzebub 22nd Dec 2020 08:08

Their 707 simulator certainly was, but that is going back a little way!

ATNotts 22nd Dec 2020 09:07

With the way that the Covid pandemic is progress at present, I think if I were IAG I'd delay the start of Aer Lingus UK services by 12 months.

biddedout 22nd Dec 2020 10:06

I think the Home Office and DfT might be getting a little concerned particularly when the Government is promising to do all it can to help those out of work (2000UK pilots on the dole and counting) and yet this arrangement would undercut the UK job market and allow foreign carriers to bring in their own crews. Hardly taking back control and putting an end to freedom of movement.

ATNotts 22nd Dec 2020 10:24

I don't believe they can do diddly squat about it, as the Irish have so many rights with regard to UK, such as free movement, common travel and voting in our elections. I am actually surprised that the EU hasn't thrown this anomaly into the Brexit mix, but I guess as they've lived with it for 50 odd years there's not many grounds for doing so.

SWBKCB 22nd Dec 2020 10:37

Employment maybe, but what about licences?

ATNotts 22nd Dec 2020 10:43

Interesting, hadn't thought about that. The UK having left EASA, I suppose pilots will have to get a CAA licence. How big a deal would that be I wonder?


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