​​​although additional airlines / routes are the aim for the airport,the extra length provides existing airlines to operate at full weight in challenging conditions.

And that pretty much is all the extension was aimed to do. The airport MD has repeatedly stated as much so all these dreams about Easy/Ryanair additional med routes etc etc are just pie in the sky. It just re-enforces the operations that are currently there and allows a less restrictive operating environment.

You clearly have absolutely no idea on why the extension is being built and the MD has stated no such thing!

[QUOTE=stewyb;11389327]In the absence of access to current performance data, particularly relating to the A320, to ascertain the improved max take-off weights with the extended runway, I would have to resist speculating on new operators/destinations.

With the substantial investment that AGS are making I am sure that their business case for it included definition of potential new destinations, and thereby the additional revenue that can be generated, to ensure a return on it.

I feel sure that the AGS business plan for the extension was far more robust than “build it and they will come”!

You're entitled to your opinion. Let's see who pitches up......

CAA held their regular board meeting at the airport yesterday so hopefully all was signed off!

Genuine question, how many flights per day is the multi million pound runway extension at BHX needed for? I don't think Emirates needs it most of the time, so while the extension is welcome at SOU, the benefits may well be marginal in future years. I'd expect a flurry of B737/A320 operators to give it a go and see in the short term though.

Ok - I'll bite, like who?

There aren't that many about - Mr O'Leary has said 'never', so they are nailed on..., EZY - large base at LGW, Wizz - possible..., TUI - currently a couple of charters a week - larger operations already at BOH and LGW, Jet2 - said to be not looking at new bases at present, don't normally dabble in 'W's' into non-bases.

After that you are down to wildcards like Volotea, Vueling, Eurowings?

I wouldn't be surprised if easyJet initially tried something like a 3x weekly service in the summer from their PMI and AGP bases.

If anyone tries the airport, certain it will be EZY and don’t foresee the odd route here and there diluting their mammoth base of 80+ aircraft at LGW!

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11389495]TCAS FAN

Lets hope the airport attracts additional / higher capacity with airbus type aircraft to Sun routes,I dont see domestic routes upgrading to this size of aircraft due to limited PAX demand
I received this email today from airport managemrnt"
Timescales for the project are as follows:

20th Jan - 3rd Apr - Enabling work, incl. set up of site compound
3rd Apr - 17th Aug - Main construction works"

Thanks
Mike
Southampton Airport

[QUOTE=RW20;11390545]So my timescales have been correct from the very beginning :ok:

Why did Air Berlin pull out and go to Bournemouth? Were they fed up of being terrified trying to operate off an aircraft carrier?

You have obviously posed two questions there with two sentences and the use of two "question marks".

Strange question to ask though, "were they fed up of being terrified trying to operate off an aircraft carrier"?

Really🤔

To answer that childish question. Yes, that was the official statement from Air Berlin at the time, exact words as well.

Getting to the real question you posed.

Air Berlin were using a Boeing 737-800 on the Paderborn route. The Boeing 737-800 is not an ideal aircraft for the current runway at Southampton and this won't change even with the very short 164m extension.

Air Berlin obviously realised this and therefore eventually moved to Bournemouth. The flight to Paderborn did not remain at Bournemouth for long as it was cancelled within four months of moving from Southampton.

Air Berlin from Paderborn actually flew to Southampton for just under a year before it moved to Bournemouth.

Air Berlin opened up Paderborn to Southampton as the British Army had a major base in the German city which had close connections to the British army base's in Hampshire and Wiltshire.

Not long after Air Berlin commenced Paderborn to Southampton it was announced that the British army would be leaving the Paderborn area. After that announcement along with less than expected passenger figures it was fairly obvious that the market for the flight was limited hence why it was finally cancelled.

TUI Airways does not fly its own holidays charters from SOU -

For the past 2 years they have bought seats on BACF's scheduled Palma flights and in 2022, and for 2023 actually charter their own aircraft.

2 a week for Palma using BACF 98 seat EMB190's.

A sensible load to sell - and they still offer holidays on the BA scheduled Palma flights as well (3 a week) if they fill their own up.


Future routes - ?

We know it will always be an 'Airbus airline' should any Leisure routes attract an airline wishing to dip their toe in at SOU.


Jet2 (and Jet2 Holidays) are getting new A320N's, but they do not do any 'W' pattern flying from their UK Bases.

So it would be a huge gamble for them to make a new year round Base at SOU.

Winter flights are always popular to the Canary Islands and Madeira, so of course the performance/payload issues could restrict a SOU operation, until we know more later.


However Jet2 Holidays is a very strong brand and would scare the s*** out of TUI at BOH if they did come to SOU.


TUI did really well with its own Base at DSA Doncaster - but it was only them that used the Airport, and all was very seasonal.


Other routes needed back are AF CDG and LH FRA, plus an EI DUB service that actually connects with their USA/Canada flights interlining at DUB

Liverpool would be great, it's a ghastly long drive, or an all day train ride.


BACF dropped Florence, Nice, and Berlin before they even started - I think those, plus Venice, Munich, and Barcelona are great routes with the right size a/c.

[QUOTE=RW20;11390545]As yet the Minutes from the 3 February Consultative Committee meeting have not appeared on the EBC website, maybe later today?. When they do it is expected that the Airport Ops Director's Report will include the amended work schedule.

The "Draft Schedule" presented at the 7 October meeting indicated that the main construction (ie including what CAA had to sign off) was scheduled 1 March-25 July with the "Runway go live" on 1 August.

We can only speculate that the slightly delayed schedule now indicated could have been caused by the wait for the CAA sign off.

The recent post about CAA Board holding their recent meeting at SOU is indeed encouraging. That said, I have today seen the next batch of AIP Supplements that become effective on 9 March. Nothing there relating to the runway extension project. Again, another possible indication that CAA project approval may have been delayed.

IMHO the delay with publication of the AIP Supplement shouldn't further delay the kick off. The 3 April start could initially be covered by a NOTAM which could then be superseded by a Supplement, which should appear on the NATS website during the last week of March to become effective from 6 April.

Hopefully we are almost there, maybe the new SOU construction App will announce the CAA project sign off?

While I'm not sure why this has been brought up more than 15 years later, I feel obliged to correct the post.

The Paderborn flight operated from Bournemouth from December 2005 until October 2007 which I make 23 months or rather more than 4 months! While winter loads were not great, July to October consistently saw over 3,000 passengers per month on the 3 days a week service.
July 06 - October 06 13,825
July 07 - October 07 13,975

The highest monthly passenger numbers were in July 2007 with 3,921 or around 150 per flight based on 26 flights in the month. In fact the last 4 months of the service saw some of the highest loads - possibly connected with the troop withdrawal?

LT

Re: plus an EI DUB service that actually connects with their USA/Canada flights interlining at DUB

checking the Aer Lingus website would seem to indicate many of the USA and Canada flights are bookable as a through connection via Dublin.

I used to fly from Liverpool to Southampton quite often, it was a very convenient and popular link. Would be good to see it back, as you say surface transport is slow.

DUB and LPL
 

Yes, thanks I see now that for summer 2023 there is a morning DUB at 09:15 from 27/03/23-28/10/23 daily, except SUN, when the flight awkwardly leaves at 12:55, arrives DUB 14:20,
and there is also a 10:40 DUB on a SAT with British Airways BA2938, High Season only 16/07/23-03/09/23
(also a ONE WORLD partner)

and more Votes for LPL Liverpool please (which could feed IOM too?)
Perhaps EI could op SOU-LPL-BHD on one of their 2 dailys >?

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11390835][QUOTE=RW20;11390545]

" I have today seen the next batch of AIP Supplements that become effective on 9 March. Nothing there relating to the runway extension project. Again, another possible indication that CAA project approval may have been delayed.

IMHO the delay with publication of the AIP Supplement shouldn't further delay the kick off. The 3 April start could initially be covered by a NOTAM which could then be superseded by a Supplement, which should appear on the NATS website during the last week of March to become effective from 6 April."

Just wondering if the construction was done overnight when the airport was closed then is an AIP Supplement needed if normal operations are not affected when the airport is open ?

[QUOTE=Musket90;11391110][QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11390835]If there is no operational impact on runway operations technically the answer would be “no”. However the cost of achieving this would excessively escalate the cost of the project.

The need would be to ensure that the current runway strip-end and RESA requirements are always available together with the RWY 20 runway approach lighting.

Thanks TCAS - I assume the RESA requirements during the work would have been checked by CAA in the approval process (which presumably they have). I think any temporary impact on approach lights could be covered by Notam. Stansted seems to be doing this for any lighting downgrade during their present runway work..

The RESA requirements are continuously in force to reduce the possibility of damage to an aircraft in the event of an overrun or undershoot.

Protection in the event of an overrun or undershoot is provided firstly by a "runway strip" which extends 60 metres beyond the end of the runway available for take-off, and before the threshold, ie the earliest point available for landing. Secondly by a RESA which extends for a further minimum of 90 metres beyond the strip end.

SOU has a standard 60 metres strip end and the minimum 90 RESA for both runways.

The project plan submitted to CAA will have to demonstrate how the strip end and RESA are going to be safeguarded. If one or both cannot, the runway declared distances will need to be temporarily reduced.

Reduction of RWY 20 declared distances, involving a reduced LDA, is not really an option as, due to the insetting of a temporary threshold (which is already 45 metres inset from the north end of the runway) it will prevent use of a ILS IAP and will require the expense of provision of temporary PAPIs. Apart from this it will reduce the LDA which could be unacceptable to current scheduled operators, particularly Loganair, KLM and City Flyer.

Any reduction of RWY 20 LDA would impact on RWY 02 TORA/ASDA and LDA.

Consequently I am waiting with interest to see how AGS are going to manage the strip end and RESA issue, which should be revealed in the AIP Supplement.

If it will not be possible to ensure approach lighting for RWY 20 during the project this will require a temporary raising of approach minima for RWY 20, but as we are looking at the weather during summer months this may be tolerable.

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11389239]The Minutes of the 3 February Airport Consultative Committee Meeting finally appeared on the EBC website.

Total non event with nothing that we did not already know.

https://meetings.eastleigh.gov.uk/do...mittee.pdf?T=1

[QUOTE=TCAS FAN;11392855]forecast pax for 2023 of 850k. Where are those extra 250k coming from?

As a guess, extra capacity from Aer Lingus and Loganair on BHD/DUB/EDI/GLA/NCL would probably account for about half of that.

Which will be offset somewhat by a reduced BACF summer schedule

EZY flights for W23/24 (Dec-Mar) on sale this Thursday. Apart from GVA do we reckon any further destinations will be added?

You would have to believe that sooner rather than later the airport will want to announce some additional routes in order to justify the new runway financial outlay!

Who do they need to justify it to? Any annoucements will be aimed at maximising bookings.

Their shareholders possibly, it’s called return on investment

As previously mentioned the extension is two fold,one to allow existing aircraft to operate in challenging conditions i.e. temperature highs,and to allow full loads on A320 types to Med destinations . With the financial squeeze on ,this will not be happening over night,expect some small development 2024,and hopefully route increases 2025


​​​​​​

Don't think that will need public announcements.

Few on this thread will know that today marks the retirement of one of Southampton’s longest serving Air Traffic Controllers, David Reynolds. From a young trainee in the 1980s until today he has been a consummate professional which I had the privilege to work with.

A long and happy retirement mate.

No more F-15s at SOU then! Happy retirement Dave, an ATC legend.

Latest batch of AIP supplements, effective 6 April, published today, nothing related to the runway extension project, however, NATS AIM today also published NOTAM C1514/23
Q)EGTT/QFAAH/IV/BO/A/000/999/5057N00121W005B)2303260530 C)2306262115 E)AD OPERATING HOURS
MON-SAT 0530-2100
SUN 0630-2100
ANY EXTENSION TO OPR HR WILL ONLY BE GRANTED IN EXCEPTIONAL
CIRCUMSTANCES DUE TO RWY EXTENSION WORKS AND ONLY WITH PERMISSION OF
AIRPORT DUTY MANAGER (02380 697924)

Could indicate that all or most of the work will take place at night with the RWY strip ends/RESAs restored each day.

Awaiting the next instalment! We may get the project unfolding in bite sized portions via NOTAMs rather than an overview via an SI. That said, good to see that things are at last apparently moving

Southampton - paris orly has appeared within the eastern airways booking engine (although no flts loaded yet).

According to the Eastern thread it will operate EMA-ORY-SOU-ORY-CWL-ORY-EMA
A "W pattern" on steroids and an operational nightmare to recover when it goes wrong.