If you look at the countries where the virus is out of control like USA, Brasil, Mexico & India you could hardly blame air travel for making it worse. European countries that have seen recent spikes like Germany, Spain & UK are in places like meat processing. fruit picking or specific towns like Leicester. These spikes are small compared to the amount of daily cases being recorded in March & April. I think air travel is now probably safer than going to the pub, with many countries doing testing in varying degrees at airports, and insisting on face masks both in terminals and on aircraft.

Mr Mac,

I was reading a piece on tagesschau.de this morning in which they singled out the British and Germans for seemingly running amok and ignoring the rules laid down by the Catalan and Balearic governments. I suppose it's perhaps as well that Sweden is largely "country non grata" as their reputation for misbehaving on the booze is probably worse that than of the British, and apparently the Germans!

I have just returned from a weeks break in The Netherlands and Germany, felt totally safe, no rif-raf in the places we eat, drank and slept at, but then again we don't frequent inner city bars and "Kneipen" - too old for that now!

ATN
Yes they have been roundly condemned here in Germany,and I read the same article though from video by the Telegraph it looked a little more boisterous than the ones I have seen here. As for going to the pub you can forget it in the UK though we have had a number of Thursday nights out in the Munich sunshine in the old town (Altstadt) which handily is where my apartment is. We go for early doors drinks, and I tend to leave my younger colleagues to carry on though we never seem to have any Friday hangovers or issues. The only time I tend to stay in or even make sure I am out of the city is during the Oktoberfest.

Well I said here last week that Brits abroad will forget all about social distancing but even I was shocked by this video.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ck-to-mallorcaIt's depressing to see that the British and Germans can maintain their reputations as the hooligans of Europe.....

From another site:

“We are back,” chanted the German tourists who gathered at the Ballermann party strip, known as the ‘Partymeile’, on Mallorca’s Playa de Palma at the weekend. “We want to celebrate!” shouted others as they carelessly danced the night away for hours – hand in hand and close to each other – between the tables of the bar terraces and in the streets. “Almost nobody wore a mask, drinks were handed around and often shared”, reported the island’s German-language newspaper Mallorca Magazin, adding that social-distancing was not being respected either. The pictures of the exuberant partying, where all hygiene rules were ignored, caused indignation not only on Mallorca. “As if there were no Corona”, wrote the Mallorca Zeitung in horror, noting that “it seemed as if nobody here had ever heard of the pandemic.”

“We did not endure the shutdown here for weeks in order to recklessly jeopardise what we had achieved,” the newspaper noted bitterly.

The few visitors who wore masks at the party were laughed at by the masses.

We are going to have to endure restrictions for many years to come ! Reason, all the morons on this planet who only think about themselves and cannot see the bigger picture.

Barling Magna:

As I wrote above, the Swedes knock the Brits and Germans into a cocked hat. Booze is so expensive there they go bonkers when they rock up in Spain for their two weeks in the sun!

helipixman

I think you're right, unless we decide that the premature deaths of elderly people are a small price to pay for the young enjoying themselves and going on the pi$$ with no regards for the health and safety of others. This group in the population, whether they be British, German, Swedish, Korean, Australian or whatever else simply don't care.

Nothing like a sweeping generalisation...

Faux outrage from the Spanish - what did they expect? Have they never seen foreign tourists before? They've looked at the risk v reward calculation and gone for it.

Apart from the obnoxious behaviour, which is hardly novel or unexpected, this will be sure to spread and cause a spike in CV.

Oh sorry, I wasn’t talking about The Balearic Islands but the Easter, Mayday, May Bank Holidays, Black Lives, Hottest Day events.

Still waiting for the spikes to happen.

Rather than spikes, we have infection rate failing to fall as steadily as it has in better managed countries. Perhaps without the events you mention England would have a rate as low as Scotland...

...or if Englands population density wasn't more than 5 times Scotlands.

Scotlands rate of testing is way lower than England so they dont really know how many people in Scotland have it.

There is no evidence that the data for Scotland are inaccurate. People get tested either if they have symptoms or proactively in care homes etc. There are parts of England which arere rural but still have quite a high rate.

Scotland have done a decent job but have had a far easier task being so much more sparsely populated with many remote areas. England for example can look to the sparsely South West which has our lower rates of infection as a rule and England has the problem that it’s even more densely populated than the countrywide figure suggests as most of the major cities are located in an area from Bristol to London at its southern point and Hull to Liverpool at its Northern, that 200 x 200 mile square is full of major conurbations close together.

That said for all our testing to now be getting 500 or so in 50 odd million isn’t too bad and seem to be now in line with the levels that most of Europe’s bigger nations have been recording since squashing their levels, just a few weeks behind.

The task now is to manage it as best as we can in England and Europe and ensure we nip outbreaks in the bud quickly... after the mess they made of Leicester which has been harshly treated when most of its outbreaks are in certain areas rather than the city as a whole because the data took so long to get sorted let’s hope lessons are learnt.

As for the Germans, (and dare say we will see Brits doing the same in coming weeks) it’s stupidity and risks everyone else getting the chance to get away if spikes occur in resorts. Whilst in the main it probably won’t see it the chance isn’t worth taking. Lockdown fatigue and the desire to be “free again” I imagine is not likely to help, let’s be honest most of us just want the freedom we had just a few months ago and it’s been for me at least a real eye opener into what we took for granted before but we need to keep the virus at bay to avoid losing the gains in freedom we have over what we had in April!

Dark times and I don’t know how or when it will end and life will be how it was. 2020 won’t be one for the fond memories that’s for sure but hopefully in terms of travel and air travel we can manage it enough to save as many jobs in the industry and get some life back into it with Jet2 and TUI kicking back in.

The latest information is that they expect another spike in this covid 19 virus coming this winter. Where does that leave the people who like to go abroad for a break, maybe over the Festive period? I can see a few of these famous air bridges collapsing.

Yes someone has predicted 100,000 deaths from a second spike in winter, is that the same person who predicted 500,000 deaths in the UK from the first spike ! That did not happen

I think with the stupidity being shown by some people around the world there is really only one way out of this pandemic ! A vaccine. We keep hearing about a vaccine being imminent but then hear its possibly a year away. I am beginning to wonder if this virus will ever have a vaccine ?

I agree some air bridges may collapse along with some airlines, but again caused by stupidity of of some tourists. Lets hope we get a vaccine soon !

The hope for a vaccine is because there is nothing else that will rid us of the virus with any certainty.

Some were very optimistic that a vaccine may be developed by the end of the year. However, there are many types of coronavirus and none of them, as yet, have a vaccine that can successfully prevent them. I'm sure many will remember SARS which was a different strain of coronavirus in 2003 - They are still trying to develop a vaccine against it.

Some good news has come out today though.
https://www.itv.com/news/2020-07-15/...-robert-peston
https://www.standard.co.uk/business/...-a4499111.html

Seems that French airlines now don’t accept fabric masks being worn as offering sufficient protection and that surgical masks now have to be worn. https://www.connexionfrance.com/Fren...h-tissue-masks

I was also reading that while the cabin air is protected by filters so offering a claimed safe environment for passengers this only happens when the engines are running. When the aircraft is on stand the air could be contaminated with virus.

Presumably this will be mitigated by using the APU or ground powere to run the A/C. There does seem to be an assumption that all aircraft are equal and are fitted with HEPA filters. Anybody have any details?

It seems to me that flying is not spreading the virus as much as we are led to believe. Most of the spikes have been down to meat processing factories and farms. The labourers on the farms tend to live in tightly packed dormitories probably with poor ventilation.
What people do when they get to their destination (holiday resort or home town) is outside the remit of the airports & airlines. You would think that a video showing boozed up Germans & Brits in Majorca only happens whilst on they are on holiday - it happens on a regular basis in may towns throughout the UK every weekend, although the media don't pick up on this.

Bad news........ITV News has just announced that the UK will re-introduce 14 day quarantine for all travellers from Spain from midnight tonight due to the increase in Covid-19 cases in Catalonia and elsewhere.

I follow a guy on YouTube called Spain Speaks with his daily updates. This was inevitable with nightclubs and bars opening. Much of the Mediterranean coast is now back in a red zone as reported today. As normal the BBC has dug out a newspaper reporter in Spain who says it is nonsense.

Gov.UK Foreign Travel Advice:

From 26 July, the FCO advises against all non-essential travel to mainland Spain based on the current assessment of COVID-19 risks. Only the Canary Islands (Tenerife, Fuerteventura, Gran Canaria, Lanzarote, La Palma, La Gomera, El Hierro and La Graciosa) and Balearic Islands (Mallorca, Menorca, Ibiza, and Formentera) are exempt from the FCO advice against all non-essential international travel.

This advice is based on evidence of increases in cases of COVID-19 in several regions, but particularly in Aragon, Navarra and Catalonia (which include the cities of Zaragoza, Pamplona and Barcelona).

The FCO is not advising those already travelling in Spain to leave at this time. Travellers should follow the advice of the local authorities on how best to protect themselves and others, including any measures that they bring in to control the virus. If you are returning from Spain (including from the Balearics and Canaries) on or after 26 July you will be required to quarantine on your return to the UK, but the FCO is not advising you to cut short your visit. You should contact your tour operator or airline if you have any questions about your return journey.

As per usual Govt using blunt force trauma without any thinking.

Who knew that Lingerie Model Caprice in Feb / March could out think Medical profession and insist on masks, based on Singapore / Taiwan / Japan, to then be abused by medical establishment that it made no difference.

My plans to Tenerife look like on back burner, accommodation we can reschedule and flights were for nowt.

However total cases in Canary Islands are less than Surrey !!!!! with sunstantially less deaths, so more risk staying at home:*:rolleyes:

Somewhere like Tenerife will act as a mixing pot for much of Europe... people arrive, mix with a lot of different people from all over the continent that they normally never mix with (allowing plenty of infection possibilities) and then go back home after a week.
The Covid cases and deaths end up being recorded in the UK / northern Europe, but infection occurred in Tenerife, and an incubation period while Joe Bloggs was on the beach

London is more of a mixing point than Tenerife ever will be and there is no lockdown there.

Most of the holidays I have had in Tenerife for last 5 years have not involved the mixing with other nationalities close enough to catch anything. Dinner with Wizzair friends on a couple of occasions, not a boozer and of an age where PDLA is of no interest so it is doing own thing.

As Canary Islands have effectively kept cases at a minimum perhaps trusting them V a UK Govt who apparently didn't know slavery was in operation in Leicester and in car washes close to you may be a better idea.

So which government are you talking about as England, Scotland, NI and Wales all made the same decision?

Spanish Holidays
 

After seeing the party pictures from Spain it was inevitable that quarantines and further lockdowns would be involved, its going to destroy their tourism and travel industry, hope other countries learn before it's too late.

Easy to judge, however the pics of the parties were not anywhere near the areas of Spain that are in local lockdowns.

Yes but that is how the virus spreads. Just need to see what is happening in America.

Just like on Bournemouth beach. Just like crowds in soho when the pubs reopened. Just like all the blm protests. None of these were stopped or closed, in fact boris told us it was our duty to go for a pint!

Big crowds don't always equal big virus transmission it seems. The Americans are suffering as they have a buffoon leading them who hasn't taken it seriously from day 1.

I can fully understand the mainland spain being put under quarantine as the numbers are increasing. However there's no logic at all to including the Canaries and balearics. Theyve had much better virus figures from the start and continue to do so.

That's not really an academic piece of science is it !

It's just possible that the rules under which the FCO operates allow it to give separate advice to different regions (country X is ok but avoid region Y) but that the rules of the Home Office don't allow it to distinguish arrivals from different areas. Hence the FCO don't discourage travel to the Balearics/Canaries but the HO can't separate them for quarantine rules.

No it was not. Neither should have been. The scientists should be encouraged to speak their mind but it’s the world’s (so called in too many cases) leaders that need to protect the societies they are sworn to defend.

I was reminded earlier, whilst in the Co-op with my breath steaming up my glasses as it was forced from under my mask, that a few short months ago the scientists told us there was significant evidence that masks could do far more harm than good. Clearly, that advice was political designed to protect the (then) desperate shortage of this PPE item.

Please remember, this sickening virus is no direct threat to us as a species. It is very much a threat to our society and one of the privileges most vulnerable is recreational travel.

Canaries is a strange one as it’s as far if not further from the problem area in Spain than England is! It’s like Gibraltar being quarantined because England is.

If the Belgians can specify travel bans and quarantine from Leicester and Lisbon surely we can manage it for islands 1000 miles away from the issue.

We’ve not really managed this situation well in terms of travel. Same with Portugal when realistically we could of allowed the Algarve and in turn less damage to our own airlines/travel businesses.

I agree with mainland Spain but the islands seem
over the top and unfair on the travellers who have gone.

That said Spain maybe could have been better with her borders, I am in Greece, was tested as was many of the flight, likely pinpointed as from Leicestershire (well outside the lockdown but still worth checking my condition) as was my wife.

A quick temperature check and glance as people waltz through maybe isn’t enough but then neither are we doing it either.

Had a great time in Greece, only need masks on transport or supermarkets and aside from the test and that it was pretty much a usual holiday though so it can be done, and they have kept on top of it.

Regarding Island quarantine rules. It might have to do with the number of Spaniards catching flights to the islands as this is their traditional holiday period. Places like Madrid are back in the red zone.

Accoding to the BBC Spain, Portugal and Sweden are all showing around 40 cases per 100,000 of population while the U.K. is showing about 15 cases per 100,000.

Romania at 59.7 and Bulgaria at 44.8 are higher so I wonder how they escaped.

Romania and Bulgaria are not on the list of exempt countries and for example Greece has now closed their borders to them unless they show a negative test result 72 hours before.

Oddly after months of being the ill man of Europe with Sweden we are now one of the better fairing, looking loosely only Finland, Cyprus, Montenegro and Ireland were overly strict on us in Europe now with Austria dropping their restrictions tomorrow.

There's been a wide spectrum of opinions ranging from extreme caution to sheer recklessness. As this is a forum for Professional Pilots, it might be worth reading of one who experienced Covid-19 first hand.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53544345

Does it really matter ? How does it get from country to country, mainly air travel, then its up to the idiots who do not do social distancing, no face masks etc etc. Thats how it gets into the country and then spreads to the other areas. Spain may not be the last place to suffer these quarantine measures. I remember someone on here saying you cannot hide for the rest of your life, maybe we need to start taking risks to restart the travel industry and economy and go on holiday ! Maybe I am being far too sensible but the risk far out weighs the benefits of having a holiday at the moment.

When are TUI stopping flights to mainland Spain ? If they already have how are their customers going to get back home ? Just too many problems could arise at such short notice by government and airline actions and you are stuck possibly without adequate insurance. It' a great shame but this and further outbreaks in more countries could kill the already devastated international tourism business.