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Aer Lingus are now a privatised company, the government should have no input into its workings.
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Supply and Demand, Colm. The End.
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It's not quite as simple as supply and demand as we all know airlines play other games like operating routes to keep potential competitors out of a market or not operating potentially profitable routes so as to guard yields at another airport.
In fact if it was simple supply and demand and prices were as high as suggested, you would expect supply to increase. That said, I have suspicions about the figures. I've never seen a €939 return flight to Munich, but pick the right set of dates... Because of the lower capacity out of Cork compared to Dublin, there will always be the potential for individual events to overwhelm that capacity on a certain date. Nevertheless, making a fuss about something that is out of the hands of politics is a great way for a politician to make some headlines without having to actually do anything. |
Aer-Lingus are trying everything to get all passengers on tuesday 24th oct they operated the LAST tue evening flight to AMS forcing passengers to use Dublin and the XXXXXX BUS
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Corks service to Amsterdam has lost alot of yield lately, hence they made a commercial decision to cull the Tuesday evening flight for the winter It's not that concerning, however this plentiful attitude of everyone is against Cork really doesn't achieve anything and is completely detached from reality.
Dublin now has 3 carriers, operating 12-13 (I think) daily flights to AMS, more than doubled compared to what it was previous to the arrival of Ryanair and KLM to the route. As a result, this dilutes yields in AMS routes in BFS, ORK and DUB. I'd also like to point out EI would achieve very little from "forcing" Cork passengers to Dublin, as it's very possible many will choose to fly with a competing airline. |
Pricing
I don’t think this is a case of ‘they Are against Cork’ this is more a case of, EI are not watching price structures in Cork, nor is this down to supply and demand!
It is common practice to increase price structures in one area to try and push customers in another, meaning, supply and demand does come into it, but not in a traditional way! It looks like Cork prices on many routes are artificially inflated, to encourage bookings in a more need area! This is normal in the travel industry and is wide spread. To simplify, they have a lot more capacity out of Dublin to fill, and not as much from Cork, so keep prices up in Cork to fill where the larger capacity is! It’s not a case of let’s hurt Cork, it’s a case of protecting Dublin to keep themselves competitive, Cork pricing is collateral damage. |
Pushing them to other airline isn't what they'd like to do, hence the suggestion that they're reducing capacity due to this doesn't make sense.
However, I've no doubt that certain airlines (INC EI) do this in order to keep capacity at their hub airports. They're commercial businesses and it makes commercial sense. |
EI are trying to maximize profits as much as possible especaily where they have zero competition and that affects “guests” from Knock, Shannon, Cork and to a lesser extent Belfast. They have total disregard for loyal frequent flyers as is evident with Aer Club. Never in my life have I ever heard of an airline loosing so many checkin bags and still fail to deliver after 6 weeks citing weather as an issue. Their customer service is via tweeter or Facebook and only manned certain hours and not weekends. There are no phone numbers easily accessible from their website when they leave you in the sh1t to try and get a hand out. Staff on the planes are decent enough but again when things fail they can’t assist. Aircraft are only cleaned nightly so if someone soils on your seat on the previous flight you have to to sit on the same crap. Unfortunately I have to fly this shower about 20 times a year and will often drive to Dublin to take a connecting flight rather than a direct flight with them.
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Nope, still operating and bookable for the entire winter season.
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and then gone
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It ran twice weekly during summer schedule just gone
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In addition to the Air France announcement, which can hopefully get merged into this thread, it looks like Swiss have extended their season further. Flights are from 9 May to 26 October.
I was a touch surprised by Air France. Although I had Hop! on as an airline Cork should be reaching out to, I had them more down for Nice or maybe Nantes than Paris. Hopefully it will be used. It should bring a bit of honesty to the Aer Lingus fares to Paris if nothing else. |
Brilliant news from SWISS, it’s come a long way in just 2 years. I wonder if we might see a winter GVA from LX, maybe once a week on Sat/Sun? easyJet are the other big operator at GVA, but I don’t see than happening, after last time!
Interestingly there are a lot of EI CDG fares are to be had for €125 return. Matching AF. Quelle Suprise! |
Passenger numbers up 5% for January
Cork Airport passenger numbers increase 5% in January Seems quite a respectable performance considering there were substantial cancellations due to Storm Eleanor, Storm Fionn and one day of heavy fog. I can't recall what the weather was like in January 2017 though and being January, there may have been a number of cancellations that month. |
Ryanair going year-round with Faro with 2 flights a week to operate throughout the Winter months. Other than a few extra seats (and I'm not sure if this is at the expense of capacity on another route), it's no major gain as Aer Lingus already operate this through the winter.
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AF flights seem to be getting quite expensive, is that a sign that there has been a bit of take up I wonder.
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840, Aer Lingus haven't operated to Faro in Winter for about 5/6 years. Looking at the timings its a Faro based Aircraft, appears no other capacity has been cut. So a positive addition to the winter schedule.
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Newcastle
Newcastle does not appear to be bookable beyond October at the moment.
Does anyone know if this is flight is being axed or just not loaded? The timing are not great which probably doesn't help with the loads. |
A bit early to be getting worked up, summer schedules are by no means set in stone.
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I wouldn't be at all shocked if they are waiting to see if Newcastle Utd stay up or Middlesbrough come up.
Over Winter, the Premier League business they get on the Newcastle route is important in sustaining what is their most marginal route out of Cork. |
Had noticed that NCL had disappeared from Winter 18 timetable.
Would be a shame however STK have been guilty of their usual games over the years. As soon as the route appears to look like becoming established, they chop and change the days/times and its back to square one. Currently operating on days 1--4-6- it isn't particularly helpful for anyone - the previous schedule was much better (think it was 1-3-5-7) and always had a good stag crowd for the weekend flights. I think STK shot themselves in the foot with the previous schedule in that is was too cheap. These days fares are considerably more expensive and if that combined with the more favourable schedule would see enough for the route to survive. Hard to believe that it wasn't long ago the route operated 3x weekly 733s from NCL as well as competition from RE at LBA and BMI at MME. It also begs the question that if NCL was to be dropped, then is there really a need for a 3rd based ATR for winter 18? It wouldn't take a great deal to move the EDI/SNN till the afternoon and maybe run the 3rd rotation MANs on a W from DUB. Maybe plans for another ATR to SEN? |
Can anyone remember the attempted stroke by the DAA to sell Cork Airport land ? Where was the land located ? I think they land was being sold for industrial use.
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I'm not sure exactly where, but the land across 07/25 (beyond the perimeter fence) from the existing business park is zoned for commercial use. There's also a parcel to the east of the end of 17/35 that is zoned for industrial.
Neither fits within what we conventionally think of as the airport boundary, but I know there is some land around the airport that is owned by the airport and rented out to farmers. By far the biggest stroke was the transfer of the existing business park land from Cork Airport to the DAA in the accounts. It took an asset that was generating about 6 million a year in rental income (the airport only owned a minority stake) off the Cork books making it look much more loss making than it is. |
Air France have extended their new Paris route to go through the Winter season as well.
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Originally Posted by 840
(Post 10091413)
Air France have extended their new Paris route to go through the Winter season as well.
Well done to the team at Cork, Air France and, of course, people of Munster, for supporting the service. |
Originally Posted by brian_dromey
(Post 10092193)
That’s brilliant news for ORK. It’s exactly the kind of service the airport needs to ensure world-wide connectivity, year-round.
Well done to the team at Cork, Air France and, of course, people of Munster, for supporting the service. |
It's good to see a bit of Winter expansion too. In recent years new routes have focused on summer expansion. Between this and the Ryanair Faro announcement, it looks like around 2,000 extra seats available per week over the Winter months.
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Bring on KLM and LUFTHANSA
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Norwegian to suspend Providence for the Winter this year. Hopefully it is just a suspension. Ironically it’s on the same day Aer Lingus decides to suspend Shannon-Boston from January to March next year. You’d wonder if the loss of one could have saved the other.
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Originally Posted by 840
(Post 10106425)
Norwegian to suspend Providence for the Winter this year. Hopefully it is just a suspension. Ironically it’s on the same day Aer Lingus decides to suspend Shannon-Boston from January to March next year. You’d wonder if the loss of one could have saved the other.
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True. The Norwegian thread doesn’t make nice reading at the moment. There could be a lot of suspensions.
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Originally Posted by 840
(Post 10106429)
True. The Norwegian thread doesn’t make nice reading at the moment. There could be a lot of suspensions.
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In Winter, they should be able to get in 2x weekly Lisbon by getting extra utilization out of the current aircraft.
I can't see how it can be done in the Summer, without either cutting frequency on an existing route or operating one of the existing routes as a W. |
Final route figures for 2017. I've excluded any destination that didn't get at least 500 passengers across 2016 and 2017, and any route that didn't get 100 passengers in 2017 as these are largely private movements or one-off charters for soccer/rugby matches [although Farnborough surviced even with this restriction] and the data is just unreadable if they are all left in.
Changes in the top 10 are that Malaga has overtaken Gatwick, even though Gatwick had reasonable growth, and that Birmingham has come into the top 10 at the expense of Liverpool In general
London - Heathrow (LHR),Great Britain 401461 (+2.87%) London - Stansted (STN),Great Britain 353007 (+3.93%) Amsterdam (AMS),Netherlands 168150 (-5.62%) Malaga (AGP),Spain 137233 (+17.39%) London - Gatwick (LGW),Great Britain 125426 (+3.92%) Faro (FAO),Portugal 114635 (+0.17%) Lanzarote (ACE),Spain 105886 (+8.64%) Manchester (MAN),Great Britain 105543 (+14.87%) Paris - Charles De Gaulle (CDG),France 90620 (-0.24%) Birmingham - Uk (BHX),Great Britain 77545 (+2.96%) Liverpool (LPL),Great Britain 73087 (-8.85%) Palma (PMI),Spain 53452 (+2.27%) Edinburgh (EDI),Great Britain 47170 (+25.13%) Bristol (BRS),Great Britain 40727 (+4.54%) Wroclaw (WRO),Poland 37674 (-0.28%) Alicante (ALC),Spain 31552 (+33.23%) Tenerife Sur - Reina Sofia (TFS),Spain 30329 (+5.89%) Gdansk (GDN),Poland 29140 (-4.52%) Barcelona (BCN),Spain 27914 (+12.42%) Glasgow (GLA),Great Britain 25329 (+6.92%) Las Palmas (LPA),Spain 24585 (+15.14%) Southampton (SOU),Great Britain 23951 (+44.90%) Reus (REU),Spain 17928 (+0.24%) Munich - Franz Josef Strauss (MUC),Germany 16530 (-11.45%) Providence - TF Green (PVD),USA 16105 (NEW) Cardiff (CWL),Great Britain 15228 (+31.56%) Newcastle (NCL),Great Britain 12527 (-24.18%) Dusseldorf (DUS),Germany 11927 (-1.38%) Reykjavik - Keflavik (KEF),Iceland 11461 (NEW) Bergamo - Orio Al Seri (BGY),Italy 9512 (+5.63%) Bordeaux - Merignac (BOD),France 8686 (-1.40%) Madrid (MAD),Spain 8678 (+19.48%) Gerona (GRO),Spain 8627 (+3.05%) Carcassonne (CCF),France 8618 (-2.94%) Zurich (ZRH),Switzerland 7739 (NEW) Lourdes - Tarbes (LDE),France 6111 (-2.77%) Verona - Boscomantico (QBS),Italy 3820 (+104.11%) St. Mawgan (NQY),Great Britain 3526 (NEW) Salzburg (SZG),Austria 3232 (+3.13%) Rennes (RNS),France 2868 (+10.90%) Split (SPU),Croatia 1018 (+83.60%) North Pole - Rovaniemi (RVN),Finland 844 (-0.94%) Dubrovnik (DBV),Croatia 814 (-30.22%) Farnborough (FAB),Great Britain 482 (+66.55%) Jersey (JER),Great Britain 325 (-88.26%) |
MUC returning from 22/12 for Winter Ski with EI.
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Originally Posted by Jack1985
(Post 10115676)
MUC returning from 22/12 for Winter Ski with EI.
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FAO is Ryanair and seems to be served by a non-Cork-based aircraft.
Aer Lingus Aircraft haven’t been fully utilized November to February, but it’s not clear what happens from March onward for Lisbon |
Good to see more capacity at Cork for the winter. Where has the extra capacity come from for the three new winter routes? FAO, LIS and MUC are all additions for the winter. In other news, Newquay will now run to October 6th, so a slightly extended season. |
Originally Posted by 840
(Post 10127544)
The Lisbon schedule is now visible, so it looks like we can answer this question. There has been a bit of juggling round and it appears to me that there is also a small frequency increase on Malaga. The loser in all this seems to be Lanzarote, which is currently showing at 1x weekly as long as EI allow future bookings. With the loads and prices charged, that had always looked like a bit of a cash cow, but with the long sectors, it looks like extra flights can be squeezed out of the aircraft by reducing frequency. Plus, Ryanair capacity increases on the route in recent years may have been hurting.
In other news, Newquay will now run to October 6th, so a slightly extended season. ACE also ran Mon last winter so LIS replaces this along with a re-shuffle of Canaries. |
Originally Posted by 840
(Post 10127544)
The loser in all this seems to be Lanzarote, which is currently showing at 1x weekly as long as EI allow future bookings. With the loads and prices charged, that had always looked like a bit of a cash cow, but with the long sectors, it looks like extra flights can be squeezed out of the aircraft by reducing frequency. Plus, Ryanair capacity increases on the route in recent years may have been hurting.
Ryanair have loaded Cork-Santander onto their booking engine, although with no flights yet available. Seems to me it's highly possible FR want to go after the new ferry service operated by Brittany Ferries. |
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