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-   -   Heathrow-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599818-heathrow-2-a.html)

c52 12th May 2018 12:32

You could almost promise it by building the new runway just big enough for a Dash 8.

SWBKCB 12th May 2018 12:45


I am sure however that a new runway open for SH ops with an easy connection on LH destinations would create a market that would be quickly filled. Not only from the UK regions but also Europe. We would also likely see new routes to destinations that were not previously viable even for Heathrow.
Or easyJet move in and fly people on holiday to the same destinations...

Are the environmental issues really spurious - more flights means more noise, and it ain't cheap.

Talking about the differences in the level of regional infrastructure expenditure isn't just a "fan club" issue.

DaveReidUK 12th May 2018 15:14


Originally Posted by Prophead (Post 10144818)
We would also likely see new routes to destinations that were not previously viable even for Heathrow.

I'm struggling to see how a route that's not viable (i.e. not enough demand to operate at a profit) becomes viable simply by building an additional runway at one end or another end of the route.

Heathrow Harry 12th May 2018 15:59

People hope the new runway will reduce the operating costs significantly...................... ho, ho ho

Mr Mac 12th May 2018 16:38

Prophead
Your location says Berkshire not LBA or Yorkshire hence my belief you live in the SE, unless you commute like I used to do. As for the use of a 3rd runway stopping the MAN bus service, dream on. It is BA who run the service and I have no doubt 3rd runway or not I would be on a bus if I returned to using BA and LHR. I would be back on that bus again within 6 months with the optional delv of my bags outbound, or inbound. Its funny I started to leave LHR and BA in around 2007 apart from the odd flight. Now despite numerous flights , gales , storms, volcanoes, Fog EK /SQ/LH have got me home, or outbound with my luggage at the same time, to the same place, a point that BA and LHR failed to do on numerous occasions hence my move. As for spending money at LHR I have to ask why. The place functions badly now so here is a radicle thought, cut the number of services but get it right for those that remain, and this applies to both BA and LHR and then rebuild your airline and airport rather than this dash for growth which is proving so trouble some.

Regards
Mr Mac

Dobbo_Dobbo 12th May 2018 16:52



Originally Posted by Prophead (Post 10144901)
The Manchester lot are behind Gatwick expansion so it's not about north/south. They see a hub at LHR as a threat to their spotting books.

The central rationale behind Propheahad's (obviously unresearched, unsupported and unsustainable) arguments is revealed...

DaveReidUK 12th May 2018 18:33


Originally Posted by Prophead (Post 10145005)
Because the airport is now serving the UK rather than the south east.

Yes, it's the two assumptions implicit in that comment that I'm struggling with:

a) that a significant additional number of domestic destinations will be served by a 3-runway Heathrow, and

b) that the traffic on any new domestic routes will contain sufficient additional connecting passengers to make any international routes viable that aren't already being served.

I've not seen any stats or forecasts that demonstrate either of those conclusively.

Dobbo_Dobbo 12th May 2018 19:18


Originally Posted by Prophead (Post 10145036)
Whatever that means...

The previous thread on Heathrow had a large number of people, all from around MAN all saying it should be Gatwick not Heathrow that's expanded.

Lots of people in central London say the same thing.

Skipness One Echo 12th May 2018 21:37


I'm struggling to see how a route that's not viable (i.e. not enough demand to operate at a profit) becomes viable simply by building an additional runway at one end or another end of the route.
What happens to the cost of getting slots if you open a 3rd runway? That would surely make a huge difference to the cost/benefit analysis.

Dobbo_Dobbo 12th May 2018 21:41


Originally Posted by Prophead (Post 10145129)
As I have already said, the first debate should be whether or not we want to build a hub that could compete with AMS etc. If the answer is yes then it won't be at Gatwick and the only viable option is Heathrow.

Heathrow already competes with AMS.

Dobbo_Dobbo 12th May 2018 21:44


Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo (Post 10145143)

What happens to the cost of getting slots if you open a 3rd runway? That would surely make a huge difference to the cost/benefit analysis.

If a route isn't commercially viable that question is academic.

Dobbo_Dobbo 12th May 2018 21:49


Originally Posted by Prophead (Post 10145129)
We do however know that people would be more than willing to use a shuttle service from their local airport to connect onto LH as they do it already through AMS.

AMS is substantially cheaper than LHR, which is a competitive advantage.

That position is unlikely to change because of: (i) the high cost of land in SE England; and (ii) LHR management coming up with a gold plated scheme (it is so expensive that LGW now offers a stronger financial case).

chaps1954 13th May 2018 06:39

Isn`t AMS almost full now?

Ian

Heathrow Harry 13th May 2018 07:41


Originally Posted by Skipness One Echo (Post 10145143)

What happens to the cost of getting slots if you open a 3rd runway? That would surely make a huge difference to the cost/benefit analysis.

But it's not simply more runway space - it's airspace, terminals, roads, railways etc etc that also have to be increased - and the costs for all that is very significant - infact a major reason it'll never happen

And the main industry customer (IAG) would see their advantage eroded - again = more foot dragging

Dobbo_Dobbo 13th May 2018 08:41


Originally Posted by chaps1954 (Post 10145349)
Isn`t AMS almost full now?

Ian

Hi Ian

AMS has more runway capacity than LHR, but as a general rule uses smaller aircraft. On that basis, it can probably be described as "full" in the same way LHR was supposedly "full" 20 years ago.

Of course there are many alternative hub options to LHR/AMS in Europe and the Middle East.


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