Think A320 is too big for me more an ERJ 170 or SSJ route, we shall see.

Don't forget these are the only direct flight from North East of England. So there will be no direct competition for passengers from Newcastle Airport or Leeds Bradford Airport to this destination.

Interesting and welcome news...little confused..is this a change in policy and tact from PEEL..I thought they had stated a concentration on business routes?
GIB is a big void in the NE. Could be a winner?

Of course that means more staff all round.. so more outgoings..which correct me if I am wrong..PEEL threw out established operators?

New times and the fight back begins?..

Why would they need more staff?

Prior to their collapse Monarch were planning on retaining their A320s to allow continued operation into Gibraltar, as 737s I believe are right on the brink of what can be handled, that said Enter Air recently landed one and interestingly that's who Super Break are using on the Seville route...

I think this will fall into the same category as the one-off charters despite being a little bit more elaborate. I think it all comes down to how much an operator is willing to pay, something which the big operators such as TUI think is beneath them.

The way it reads is that it'll be a one off flight from most of those airports listed, with one of them, probably EMA or BFS, getting 2 departures.

R-R - can you clarify, were TUI not meeting the terms of the contract they had with Peel?

I'm sure they were, but thanks to Ryanair such operators expect everything for nothing all of the time.

It's been a tough 10 years for North East airports, Leeds Bradford and Newcastle have been having a crazy war to win business from airlines and tour operators. They have been offering loss making deals on the landing fees and airport charges to win that business.

It looks like Peel Group made a smart move by keeping Durham Tees Valley out of this battle, It now looks to be coming to end now AMP own both Leeds Bradford and Newcastle. This may mean airlines start looking at using Durham Tees Valley Airport again to keep the landing fees and airport charges lower at Newcastle and Leeds Bradford.

JT.. Are you quite sure no incentives are in place for Loganair?..

It has been a tough year for them you are right..record breaking passengers and movements at both airports..Newcastle just passed 5,000,000 in November for the year,earliest in 10 years..and meanwhile DTV struggles to reach 1972 levels..am I missing something in your post?

Highwideandugly,

I don't know what incentives are in place for Loganair but I'm sure something will be offered for them basing operations at any airport at an agreed set level. Loganair are planning to open a base at Durham Tees Valley Airport early 2018. Not sure what new routes they plan to operate from Durham Tees Valley.

You seem to missing the point that Newcastle airport and Leeds Bradford airport have built up huge debts while trying get the business from Airlines / Tour operates. Durham Tees Valley Airport hasn't built up huge debts.

Newcastle Airports passengers numbers have also been down for the last 10 years. Newcastle had 5,431,976 passengers back in 2006. Newcastle airport has less passengers from it had back 2006 & 2007(5,650,716) and the debts & liabilities have continued to grow. Nial Group Limited last accounts (group of companies accounts made up to 31 December 2016) published on 27th September 2017 at companies house show barrowings of £362,150,000.

It now looks like AMP Capital have started a finance recover plan which has seen them take control of Leeds Bradford airport and take on debts & liabilities of that airport, but it now means AMP Capital can increase the landing fees and airport charges at both airports.

So are you saying that AMP have effectively cornered the North East market and will start to co-ordinate prices to improve returns, meaning airlines will look to DTVA as an alternative?

You may find that with AMP Capital reportedly paying off some if not all its debts owned as part of the deal when it acquired LBA from Bridgepoint Capital, They will now be in an even better position to offer new and improved incentives to the airlines and tour operators to set up shop there

"So are you saying that AMP have effectively cornered the North East market and will start to co-ordinate prices to improve returns, meaning airlines will look to DTVA as an alternative? "

The main problem AMP face at both airports is the huge debt and losses. They need find a balance that means they make enough profit to start paying the growing debts back. The easiest way for AMP to achieve this will be to start increasing the landing fees and airport charges at both airports as the current deals end.

Once that starts happening it is more likely that surrounding airports like Durham Tees Valley, Doncaster Sheffield, Humberside, Manchester will start picking up some routes that would have went Newcastle airport and Leeds Bradford airport.

"You may find that with AMP Capital reportedly paying off some if not all its debts owned as part of the deal when it acquired LBA from Bridgepoint Capital, They will now be in an even better position to offer new and improved incentives to the airlines and tour operators to set up shop there "

Less debt will make it easier to make profit at Leeds Bradford Airport but the airports business still needs make a lot money before AMP see any profit on the deal. The crazy incentives are the main reason Leeds Bradford has lost over £100 million in the last 10 years.


Leeds Bradford airport is going need more support from Newcastle airport because Leeds Bradford has lot more competition for passengers & flights due to its location. It's also held back by poor location and facilities.

Debts only a problem if you can't repay it and it starts constraining the business, if it's being invested into assets which grow the business it can be a good thing.

WAs the KLM Diversion due to xwinds and cleared runway width/ breaking action?

Looking at the NOTAMs the airport was SNOCLO briefly today, and when the runway was open some taxiways were on and off closed. Suppose this is the queue for the armchair experts to start with the "little bit of snow and the place grinds to a halt" posts now...:rolleyes:

These Debts are very substantial and will only grow, given the under reported brewing war between Saudi and it's Allies and Iran.
That would push up oil prices and may cause routes to be cut.
Airlines come and go seems madness to begin so much debt at NCL then buy LBA with terrible debt and some vain hope of building a new taxiway and runway/ terminal extensions.
If Monarch went owing less.
What happens to the airports ( genuine question I'm not up on this stuff ) do they go bankrupt.
In that event is there protection to keep them running or do they shut up shop ?
Didn't a couple of new Spanish airports one ended up a ruin. But both went under before opening .
Only Castelon has a few flights now .
Ryanair being in there.

This debate is on the wrong thread! As far as I know Monarch were paid to fly from LBA, so they owed nothing, perhaps the airport lost revenue from returning passengers.

While looking for stats about Reddish South Station ( one train / one way / one day per week !! ) I came across this today.

https://www.aol.co.uk/news/2017/12/0...way-station-n/


Presumably car parking is fairly cheap at DTV, then....

First three hours free then not sure after that. Stations in the wrong place anyway.

Have you seen the timetable for Tees-side Airport Railway station?

Sundays only if I recall correctly: Realtime Trains | Departures from Tees-side Airport

Not really a viable alternative to car parking no matter what the cost! Looking at arrivals and departures, it looks like it could work if you wanted to fly Loganair to Norwich on a Sunday, and return from Amsterdam by KLM the next Sunday...

If only one of Australia's largest investment companies had access to your advice...:rolleyes:

ps. are Saudi and Iran really involved in a "brewing war"? Seems unlikely...:ok:

It is generally accepted now by those in the know that this place is heading towards housing/industrial estate due to the tiny, not very wealthy population catchment. Just like with Yeadon (Leeds Bradford Airport) and Finningley (Doncaster Airport) who also have very passionate enthusiasts it will be a sad but inevitable and desperately needed progression for Yorkshire and the Greater North East. A ONE airport solution for Yorkshire will stop the North East falling even further behind the rest of the country economically speaking. Let's stop the bickering and unite.

Give it a rest - the north of England has a world class airport at MAN, your blinkered divide and rule dreams would only benefit the south :yuk:

Leeds approach - it's only accepted by those NOT in the know! Heading towards [solely] housing and industrial estates is not bringing new airlines and operators in, is not refurbishing terminals, is not investing 4 mil+ in a new radar and another couple of mil on new security screening kit, is not releasing websites debunking all of said myths. Wake up man

Robert-Ryan, LA is a deluded troll with the sole agenda of Yorkshire - read as Leeds - having one major airport at Church Fenton.

I think we've all been guilty of feeding it recently. Hopefully it will go away soon. Ironically, there's is more chance of a housing estate being built on the airfield at CF than there is at any of the other airports mentioned in trolls' posts.

Now that's hilarious.....

If trains were to be made more regular into Teesside, could they not consider offering a free (or reasonably priced) shuttle bus to the Terminal door?

They'd probably need to knock the station down and start again though, to be fair.

Didn't there used to be one? Think there would need to be more flights for it to be sustainable.

Who left the toilet seat up! Something got out that needs flushing!

shuttle bus
 

They had a electric mini bus in the late 70s
that ran between the station and terminal

Ambassador Airways are due to launch a full summer charter programme from MME!.....oh wait its not 1994. Give up our little local airport is done.

Anth, I will fully agree with you IF Loganair is a flop... As long as Loganair commit to setting up and expanding the base come 2018, I reckon there's life in her yet

The day Loganair pull out, I agree, she's dead

Loganair? KLM's the only game in town.

An airport needs more than KLM though. Even Manston kept KLM...

Lose KLM and the airport loses all credibility - in terms of regional politics and economic impact, what's the point of the airport if it can't deliver that globally connectivity? How many of the recent investments have been to keep KLM happy?

A few KLM flights have been cancelled recently, heard some mention of fog at Amsterdam. Anyone know anymore?

It seems a fair few flights have been cancelled and delayed today at Amsterdam Schiphol not just Durham Tees Valley.

It seems that Durham Tees Valley is one of the first routes to be affected when flights get cancelled due to weather / reduced landing slots at Amsterdam Schiphol.

I suspect it's because KLM know they have no competition to worry about at Durham Tees Valley so make the decision to cancel that ahead others routes which they have a chance of losing costumers to other airlines / routes.

I guess they also have to factor in the size of the aircraft, what the load was for the flights, onward connections passengers, how passengers can be accommodated on alternative flights / including use of other local airports with KLM flights to Amsterdam Schiphol, cost of cancelling flight i.e. compensation etc, airport landing fees and charges.

i.e. KLM decide to cancel a Durham Tees Valley flight. They contact passengers and offer alternatives of compensation / costs plus a seat from / too Durham Tees Valley Airport on earlier or later flight or seats on flights from / too Newcastle airport or Leeds Bradford airport.

KLM won't cancel the route because it makes them a lot of money. If routes like Durham Tees Valley were cancelled it would have a negative affect on other flights / routes from Amsterdam Schiphol because most of the passengers are connection passenger and most will be going onto another KLM ticket coded flight.

Loganair have applied for six Saturday flights from Guernsey next summer. Appears to be a 'W' on a S.2000, not the based S.340


https://www.gov.gg/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=111113&p=0