JOTA
 

Surely handling charges are factored into the charter price, so effectively the charterer pays and costs JOTA nothing.

Accepted & that appears to corroborate the allusion then the customer (from the same catchment) in this instance & probably more given a choice choose STN.

As before then why cannot SEN secure the flying from their own facilities.

And when your training ground - where the players report before travelling - is next to J25 of the M25, your airport of choice is very likely to be STN.

Can’t really understand why Jota would have an issue positioning. Do Titan?

There really is no issue here for Jota.

When I was a Charter Broker based at SEN in the 1970s I initially tried to channel any work that I could through SEN but I quickly learned that it was not a good idea to suggest this in case the weather at SEN was a problem - no ILS in those days - whereas at STN, LTN or LGW that was unlikely to be so. The only time I pushed hard for SEN was with P & O Jet Ferries when we gained the contract for supply immediate charter capacity when their Boeing jetfoils ingested something nasty in the Thames. Their in-house travel department had often been chartering Laker 707s, while the 737-200 was better suited to the number of pax normally involved. By using TEA out of Brussels and operating between SEN and OST I could reduce the charter cost by nearly 50%. For that sort of saving the charterer was happy to be persuaded. I don't think Premiership football clubs would be very interested in deviating from their established routines.

Where do West Ham fly from? They would be a better match for SEN I'd have thought. Or are the Hammers earth-bound?

I remember Newcastle United flying into SEN some years back for a midweek game against West Ham when they played at Upton Park. Eastern provided a Saab 2000 as I recall and they flew straight back after the game.

Was it West Ham that flew back to SEN from a European game on a 757 a while back? I think that SEN may have been chosen due to a lack of night slots elsewhere though.

West Ham and Spurs use Stansted while Arsenal usually use Luton but occasionally Stansted. Chelsea use Farnborough when available but when returning from night away games usually Gatwick but have used Luton also. When Watford were in the Premier League teams from the north used Luton, but that will be severely curtailed now they are in the Championship. Teams playing at Wembley usually use Luton.
Arsenal hold the shortest domestic football charter from Luton to Norwich, flying time 13 minutes! It took longer for them to drive to Luton than fly. If my memory serves me correctly I think it was a Chello Aviation 146 which positioned in from Birmingham!

2 seasons ago Jota flew Man Utd from Manchester to East Midlands which I think would give Luton - Norwich a run for its money in terms of distance!

I happened to see MAN-EMA or vv this year, it was noticeable as one of the only aircraft in the sky.

Southend have flown to the odd game in the past and some of the bigger teams have flown in - think I recall Blackpool doing so. In League 2 this will become even more limited.

Bolton flew into SEN more recently for Charlton or Millwall. There have also been a couple of inbound charters heading for Colchester United.

I think they did use BMI Regional for a bit and the 135/145 - there are a few pictures of it on Daily Mail etc as Arsenal came in for a lot of criticism for the decision to fly!

Don’t forget “elite” sports teams are currently required to maintain a bio bubble and undergo regular Covid testing before competition. No stopping off at the Watford Gap services for a pee, sausage roll and a copy of the Sporting Life anymore.

So lots of opportunity for the likes of Jota to cash in, and IF there is any disadvantage to be based at SEN it won’t be much of one right now.

Football teams and their support staff normally use FBO terminals rather than the main terminal. How many passengers can Southend’s FBO terminal handle and seat in comfort?

The inbound B757 I mentioned was handled at the Jet Centre and the pax numbers were well over 100. Obviously outbound it would not be quite as easy to process such numbers.

Football teams don't spend much time in the FBO - especially for domestic flights.

SWBKCB

I don't know if it's the case in the current situation but quite often for departures the team coach would park at the foot of the aircraft steps. Whether that applies at STN or LTN for example I don't know but a number of Jota social media posts have shown this in the past at other UK airports.

Disadvantages for Jota...

Each positioning flight to & from STN adds 2 additional cycles to the frame hastening required m/x.

Each positioning flight from & to STN adds at least 2 hours to the crew rosta & totals for the month.

Generally wasteful in terms of fuel.

It appears Jota & Stobart do not work well together.

That's just the way the charter market is for all operators, not just Jota.

I ran a 10 aircraft operation providing light freight and pax charters in the 1980s and I doubt very much has changed since then in respect of customers' requirements. You operate to and from where they want you to, when they want you to, while making perhaps a few suggestions that might actually prove beneficial to them. If you fretted over the additional sectors and crew hours that this requires you would be looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

As far as 'the fireplace' is concerned, maybe that bit of quirkiness actually increased awareness of the Jet Centre. Bizjet business seems to have picked up over the past few weeks in any event which is good to see.

Are we missing something here? Or being a little dense? Is the majority of Jota’s work from STN? What advantage does being based there give them if they have have to position to LTN, LGW, LCY etc?

All this started because an individual has heard that Jota are not happy over a particular fee. Let’s hear a little more about that grievance if anyone can back it up.

The only thing I can say with some certainty was that when ASL started their night freight operation Jota were told that they would not be able to book any night slots at all in future. They also had to tow their aircraft onto the terminal contact stands for all departures, including positioning, and were probably charged accordingly. Whether this was due to generally enhanced security measures I don't know but they used to be able to depart from their hangar apron I believe. Certainly the talk at SEN was that Stobart did not seem to value their presence.

Last week Jota moved out of Viscount House and have established their commercial and operations offices in a nearby, off airport, business estate.

Stobart would be foolish to lose JOTA. They are in the one area of commercial aviation that is holding its own, or even expanding.

was today's Ukraine International flight the start of a new schedule?
WideWideroe seem to have stopped flying after a few weeks :(

It was reported above that Wideroe were stopping flights. There's not much point in them when Norway doesn't let people in very easily at the moment. Supposed to return in March 2021.

The Ukraine International E195 flight was a charter for a ship's crew change. They have operated into SEN before for the same reason.

Reassuring perhaps to note that more than a Pier Southend-on-Sea has a relationship with the nautical industry too))

Indeed. And a mile or so to the east of the terminal, buried in the mud of the River Roach, lies what remains of HMS Beagle. Charles Darwin taught us that being adaptable vastly increases your chances of survival. For example, a small flexible airport would be in prime position to take advantage of possibly vastly reduced numbers of those able to afford a flight to the continent.

Covid, global warming and a huge chasm between the haves and have nots could conspire to wipe out the opportunity for the masses to fly vast distances for less than the cost of a pub lunch.

Perhaps huge airports would would not be able adapt to an elite requiring fewer than 30 departures a day.

Remember when there wasn’t enough to go round for the dinosaurs.......

DC3 - I'm not sure I follow your argument. You seem to be saying that you believe the number of people flying is likely to reduce significantly, at least in the short term. You seem to also say that being adaptable is also a good thing as it allows one to survive better when circumstances change
It seems highly likely that other airports in the south east of the UK will also be willing to change their business model given a significant reduction of pax flights

Why would Southend have an advantage over these other airports ? AFAIK, Southend doesn't have a significant cargo capacity of which it can make greater use. It seems unlikely that PPL numbers in Essex will grow significantly. Southend doesn't have a suitable climate for aircraft storage. I doubt that SEN will become a major airline engineering base. Military/emergency services use of SEN seems unlikely to grow. Anyone heading to London in a private jet presumably has their eye on London City

Southend in the last few years has functioned pretty much as London's overflow airport - seeing growth because London's 5 other larger pax airports were pretty full (at least at peak times) and SEN could also offer pax a more pleasant experience.
How does being SEN being adaptable give it any particular advantages or sizeable niches which other airports won't also be targetting ? I just can't see Felixstowe, Tilbury and their ilk having a big increase in the need for air charters

I get Dave’s rationale - it’s the same principle as Aldi, Iceland, Lidl prospering over the last few years because they were more nimble with their smaller ranges and stores than the ‘Big 4’ who were lumbered with huge volumes of floorspace that was no longer wanted or needed. But in this case his application is flawed as he is looking at it one dimensionally.

The big thing he misses is location - if we assume runway length isn’t such an issue Luton is also quite small but has stronger existing non-passenger activities and is geographically better located as it’s reach is wider.

The other is how practically such a scenario would play out - in reality the giants of Gatwick, Heathrow and Stansted would collapse. This would allow a new more nimble owner to take them on at a discount, turn what’s not needed into housing and retain a single long runway and terminal for the 30 flights.

Ah well for Stobart to finally finally succeed in the Masterplan a general national & societal collapse is then obviously required .

WAIT....Oooops Oh dear they could well be right... Devilish.

Dave may well be the Nu Nu Age Guru...

Just require the Carvairs & Super Freighters back on the ramp to fly the only & remaining monied pax with their Daimlers & Jaguars to the Continent and.......Complete)).

Ahem ... London-Biggin Hill, the specialist private jet airport of London!

Well at least they’re prepared to lead by example.

By getting in first and having a crisis and collapse before everybody else? :ok:

And the way I read DC3 Dave's original post was that if demand falls significantly, small airports with their lower overall cost base would have an advantage - bigger airports would be spreading their higher fixed costs over a smaller number of customers, so would lose their economy of scale advantage.

And no, I don't remember the dinosaurs! :eek:

But the bigger airports generally have a financial infrastructure backing them to support a prolonged downturn in revenue!

In the absence of significant interchange traffic it may also be a matter of catchment area. Many airports have a 360degree catchment area. Many coastal airports have a 270 degree market, whilst SEN has, at best, a 200 degree market place.

This is happening...

The Co-op (local supermarkets) reporting sharp increase in sales/revenue due to smaller/ locality shopping.

More persuasion perhaps toward that Masterplan.

Ah Dinosaurs...

Pterodactyls and all.......

Again, far too simplistic. Ciudad Real has a 360 degree catchment. Barcelona has about a 160 degree catchment....

You can always find exceptions to a rule.... but having a 200 degree catchment instead of a 360 degree catchment tends to decrease passenger numbers.

I'd suggest less than 200, more like 90, from the A13 to joining the road to Chelmsford/Colchester (indeed STN) at the Battlesbridge roundabout with the A127 somewhere inbetween