Takes me about 10 mins...T1 to T2 walking

Cheers for the help guys

Sidenote: no trailing carry-on on the escalators any more - and the esclator tends to takes ages here and there.

hainan
 

This whole episode is curious to say the least. There did seem to be serious indications that Hainan were about to launch scheduled to China from Manchester and Sarah's input by virtue of email correspondence with the airline bore this out. Also in previous posts i seem to remember someone saying that personnel were already in post at Man to see this service through.

So what happened? In truth, only Hainan can answer that. But we can all speculate....

Two options that appear to me might be a) Hainan have been impressed by the interest in this (charter) service and have decided to jump in with both feet to see it establish into a fully-fledged scheduled service, or b) the charter operation is not doing as well as it did last year on a much smaller offering and have decided/been persuaded to step in and increase pax.

Are there any other options? Have BHX made such a spectacular presentation to Hainan based on the commercial trade links between China and the Midlands region economy?. Only recently it was reported that the West Midlands region is the fastest growing regional economy outside the southeast; and much of this growth comes from trading links with China. Where historically so much of the West Midlands engineering structure was based on UK investment, so much of it now is China owned.


If what is happening with Hainan leads to a dedicated air link with China, then maybe Chinese airlines and businesses really do know where their future lies.

Could be complete nonsense, but this is a rumour site, yes ?

Hainan added Shanghai to the equation late on and it added hurdles, hurdles that could not be over come quickly. Flight was to route MAN-Beijing-Shanghai.

We'll see...or maybe we won't !!!

I don't really think PVG was ever in the mix at this stage; Hainan were rumoured to open MAN-PEK, MAN expressed interest in gaining a link to PEK as well, Hainan then announced PEK-BOS and bizzarely someone put two and two together and came up with nineteen!

This article from Bloomberg has a few more specifics about future growth targets for MAN based on O'Toole's comments that were surprisingly missing from the M.E.N stories. No real surprises but it's good to see them mentioned again after a period in which only China seemed to get a look in.

Interesting comment in there:

"…..Contrary to recent reports claiming that Heathrow expansion is good for the regions and is the best option for the country’s future aviation needs, we strongly believe that the north does not need another runway at Heathrow to connect to global markets."

Unfortunately for him, everyone else (including overseas) appears to think otherwise, including many in the north. Like it or not, there are some destinations that could support a Heathrow route (capacity permitting) but not a Ringway route.

An "inconvenient truth" perhaps, because most Ringway longhaul routes are also at Heathrow, so there is no way that Ringway can act as a Heathrow third rwy.

The reality is that the Uk needs both a properly functioning hub airport with plenty of capacity and gateway airports.

Good! Do it, forget about Heathrow.

Would agree that India is unlikely at present, unless 9W moves its scissor hub from BRU.

I think the Hainan debacle shows why CA would be a much better option. CA have more connections at PEK and are at T3, where as Hainan fly out of the old terminal. Hainan are also announcing routes here there and everywhere. They are good to fly on internally, my first flight on a 787 was with them, but I would not trust their long haul.

I agree with FDF at least I think I do ?

Whilst we do see Lhr as a major threat in terms of "possible" funding, Manchester has its own distinct markets and great potential on a number of niche routes , but these are specific to It's own catchment area.

We simply want a level playing field.

Whilst it "might" be an unavoidable although unlikely consequence, i am pretty sure none of us want to benefit simply because Heathrow is mired in planning issues !
____________________________________________

The press release strategy this time was very odd for MAN. It was either very lengthy and different media outlets have pulled out there own bits or different agencies were given a different spin. All very odd.

______________________________________________

Re Hainan. Is BHX a designated airport re bilaterals ?

This quote is taken from a post on a.net and has rather different wording to anything else I've seen, which exemplifies Bagso's point. I hope the contributor doesn't mind. Is it from the full report on Business Desk I wonder, where I can't register.

The first para. is quite intriguing. Is it just referring to normal visits by the Route Development team, or indicating staff have been posted there for a longer period which would certainly show serious intent.

"Manchester Airport has posted staff in both Asia and America in a bid to lure new airlines. It has workers on the ground in both Beijing and the mid-west of the States, who are working to woo the carriers.

Airport chiefs have made no secret of their desire to secure direct flights to mainland China, with Beijing and other cities in the south a priority. It is also hoping to talk to airline that service Korea, Indonesia and Japan.

The west coast of America is another priority, particularly Los Angeles, and it is monitoring the work of low cost carrier WestJet, which is looking to operate transatlantic flights from Canada to UK airports."

Personal opinion - Admitted copy and paste of my comments in another place.

Why Hainan are playing Chinese whispers !

Reports of twitters are clear evidence of the potency of those

With HU releasing new routes everywhere BUT the UK and todate in 2015 the ONLY Chinese growth to the UK being China Eastern going daily and AirChina moving their second flight out of the usual waiting rooms, it certain there is more going on politically - Whitehall or Beijing who knows but the UK as a whole is not getting preferential treatment is it ?

Add to the play by Hainan go to their site and the side banner offers are from both Manchester and Heathrow prominently flashing (via Brussels).

Clearly they planned to be in this market RIGHT NOW but are be being prevented.

Further go to the interactive route map - they have added the Birmingham charter route - but try to get the scheduled and book - You can't -they will also route you via SN and Brussels.

Next visit the ACL slot site and you will find HU DO have Manchester slots post 2nd September-these haven't been handed back !

IMO the UK elections may have something to do with the delays and its likely the revised bi-laterals haven't been ratified yet.

So i suspect none of the prime candidates i.e. Edinburgh, Manchester and Birmingham has any form of official designation at the current point in time !
With a September/October or Winter schedules there is yet still time for 2015.

And to me, this is why the Hainan route 'confusion' is such an odd one, and so baffling as to what is stopping the route from happening.


We have rumours all the time, most often from a 3rd party source, but this time the parties involved have added plenty of fuel to the fire.


1- On September 4th in Paris, at the launch of Paris-Xi-an, the vice chair of Hainan Airlines clearly and undoubtedly said that 'Manchester is our next target, to launch some time in 2015'. The articles are out there to back this up (albeit in French).


2- Then, a leaked memo from Hainan appeared on a Chinese site, stating that amongst other routes, MAN would be launched in May, 2015.


3-Hainan staff had been spotted at MAN on at least 3 occasions last year, in quite quick succession, which, to me, is just a bit more than 'scoping the airport' or signing a diversion contract (aside from the BHX charters, no Hainan aircraft gets closer to MAN than Brussels, so, what would be diverting anyway?)


4- Hainan still hold slots for Sept 2nd, and were not handed back. But, ets also remember, while they have said no MAN in 2015, thise slots can be used until March 28th 2016, and, Cathay launched in winter, so, not beyond the realms of possibility that Hainan could launch in winter too.


5- At the back end of 2014, Charlie Cornish stated MAN was just '3 months away from announcing a flight to Beijing at 5 weekly'. Not only is that very unusual wording (normally nothing much is given away from the bigwigs until its official), but, it seemed quite a confident statement. What went wrong in those 3 months to go from a 'dead cert' to then, well, nothing?


6- The very confusing statements from the customer services teams. Yes, the last confusion was a mistake on their part, but, there were seversl communications which seem to suggest MAN was on the cards.


7- September 28th 2014 (ish), George Osbourne states that Hainan have the rights to serve MAN (presumably the rights at the UK end).


So, from the UK end, everything seemed a dead on cert, so, what about the Chinese end?


I was under the impression that Air China had the Chinese end rights, back from 2007, to operate 7 weekly MAN-PEK, which, they were intending to start in 2009. China operates a 1 airline per route policy, so, if Air China still hold the rights at that end, is it them stopping the flight?


If so, MAN could be stuck in a very bad stalemate. CA holding the China end, HU holding the UK end, and neither willing to back down.


Food for thought?

Good analysis there by Lax.

If the problem was potentially at the UK end I am sure MAN would be holding current cabinet and shadow ministers to account re firm assurances in respect of this should they get into Parliament, that said they can be a bit timid when it comes to vocalising a grievance in the national press preferring "hopefully" quiet diplomacy.

Never thought I would say this but MAN might be advised to steer well clear re HU if there performance thus far is a thing to go by.

Yes, a good, fair summary by LAX. The only thing I would add is that before Charlie Cornish's more direct comments, were there not a couple of quotes from MAN indicating they were in talks with a number of Chinese carriers?
That was in response to being asked specifically about the Hainan story.

Also, if Air China do still hold the rights for MAN - PEK and it is only 1 airline per route, shouldn't that fact have been known to the UK Government and MAN? Perhaps it was and that's why MAN were not just focused on Hainan.

Just to speculate further: while it would usually be quite normal for an airport to be in discussions with several (competitor) airlines over potential new services, would this be the protocol when dealing with China? If MAN were talking to say Air China as well, and for the same route, it might just suggest they didn't have full confidence in the Hainan negotiations coming to fruition even if that airline was regarded as the front runner, especially if it was Air China that held traffic rights.

Nevertheless, LAX's scenario that it could be a stalemate over conflicting traffic rights in the two countries sounds feasible.

My guess is that Ken O'Toole could be announcing a new long haul route before China but it's very unfortunate MAN finds itself in this position.

The whole China scenario is just going to have to be 'one to watch' for the forseeable I think.


I suppose we should be grateful we have a link to China with Cathay, even if people dont fully see it as 'China'. There is scope for daily, and I would not be surprised in the slightest of we have 10 weekly by the end of 2016.


In terms of long haul, I agree fully with MANFOD that there is very likely to be one, maybe even up to 3 or 4 new long haul links announced before Beijing.


Look at it this way, Thomas Cook added Boston and Los Angeles to their booking engine for 2016, much in the same way Miami and New York were added months before any announcement. To me that signals intent, as I doubt TCX and their IT guys spend that time making the code for the booking engines 'just for fun'.


We then have WestJet, who, have stated in the past MAN is on their radar, are going to soon be announcing new TATL flights and MAN has said they are talking to them.


Thirdly, Iraqi Airways have said that Baghdad is a possibility from MAN. Its served from LGW, so, one to watch again.


Lastly, Thomson and VS/DL could be one to watch. Thomson as they have said MAN-HKT is possible, and in terms of VS/DL, I don't think we have seen the last of their expansion at MAN.


So yes, not getting PEK this year is disappointing, but, on the whole, there is still a few possibilities to keep us on the positive vibes.

And another one to ponder, didn't Charlie Cornish also say quite recently 'we will soon be announcing a long haul route only available at Heathrow currently'. (cant remember when that was, Im sure someone can link that article for me)


What happened to that? Was that again referencing Beijing? Be interested to know what that was all about, as, I don't recall any routes being announced since that quote.

I hope the new CEO is open to options for all aspects of growth .......

My gut feeling is that Manchester sees itself as serving an outbound clientele, with MUFC/MCFC, Retail, Lake District, plus lots more etc there is much untapped potential in the inbound market.

AND what of cargo, some nice increases predicted at our "ugly sister", with China Southern and Qatar. That would fill some gaps up in the PM but no real mention of that here.

Is this market totally lost to EMA and STN and of course our pax holds ?

Bagso, I guess many see Manchester as a "been there, done that" destination. What Manchester and its suroundings has to offer for a normal leisure traveller is limited - only people with special interests like football will visit Manchester again and again.

It's not surprising if MAN's management sees the airport as serving a primarily outbound market - 80% of its pax are UK residents after all. By all means try to boost inbound tourism, but never forget your bread and butter market.

More Manchester, sniping from LN KGL. Oslo must be the jewel in the Scandinavian crown then surely. Why bother posting as your obviously very anti Manchester.

No, I disagree.

There are many cities which I would consider "once only" destinations, including Paris, New York (actually once was too much!), Detroit, Los Angeles, Miami, - and London.

Generally you've got to have a reason to visit a city more than once - perhaps, as has been alluded to, football - which the Northwest certainly has in it's favour.

It's not necessarily a question of being "anti Manchester" so much as being interested in visiting new places.

I'd disagree slightly. MAN doesn't have that much to offer sight seeing wise (I'm talking castles, Houses of Parliament, world renowned statues etc) but what it lacks in that it makes up in culture and general vibe. Therefore, IMO it lends itself very much to the repeat traveller. You'd also be surprised at the inbound sectors on Fridays from places such as AMS, HAM, CPH etc.... And not just football fans either. Indeed, Central Manchester in general is alive with the sound of trolley bags on a Sunday afternoon as people head home.

That said though, MAN has always been heavily skewed towards the outbound market and a surprisingly affluent one at that..... Those business and first seats aren't all being filled by business bods. Basilbrush is spot on when he says that we should never forget our bread and butter. IMO this should extend to when carriers launch "yet another route to the med" moaners.

bayer328 -

There is no need to take LN-KGL's posting so personally. And remember that denigrating another city is a very immature way of demonstrating appreciation for your own.

I have visited probably in excess of 200 cities around Europe on citybreaks. And whilst I enjoyed seeing most of them, it is not illogical that the one just visited rarely remains the top priority for my next excursion. There are always new places to see and enjoy. Prioritising the unexplored implies no slight against those already experienced by an enterprising tourist.

As residents, we believe that Manchester can offer an excellent citybreak experience for the right customer. And with the benefit of our local knowledge, we can also point to a wealth of attractions within easy reach which would keep a suitably briefed visitor intrigued for a month. BUT, most overseas tourists don't know about these ... it is up to us to market the wider region effectively. A visitor who has 'seen and done' Manchester may be wholly unaware of Chester, The Lake District, Snowdonia, York / Durham and many other amazing places easily accessed via this airport.

Where I diverge from LN-KGL is in his use of the word "many". There are actually "many" potential citybreak customers who have never visited Manchester. They far outnumber those who have. The city must work to persuade these to consider a visit. And then educate them about the further attractions which lie within easy reach of Manchester Airport. Manchester can serve as a central base for visits to a wider region offering a wealth of natural beauty, history and culture.

Many visitors may indeed make a citybreak to Manchester just the once. That is not a snub, just the real world. They will be looking to enjoy new destinations. If we can persuade them to return and enjoy the wider region on a future visit, great. But most importantly, we need them to return home and tell their FRIENDS that Manchester is a brilliant choice for THEIR next citybreak.

Though not a Manchester resident, I can agree with the sentiments regarding the largely unknown (to foreigners) hinterland of Manchester, and for that matter, Birmingham, Leeds, Newcastle, Cardiff and many others.

This is a problem created by the UK Tourism industry that concentrates it's efforts on London, then a handfull other locations such as Stratford uopn Avon, and York - but the premise is that during your trip you WILL go to London (by order!).

The rest of UK really needs to band together and promote the Midlands, Northwest, Northeast, Southwest and Wales properly - Bord Failte, originating from the Irish Republic, does a fair job for NI I believe and Scotland looks after itself.

Manchester ranks 3rd in places to visit in the UK preceded by Edinburgh, and top spot goes to London, and as was widely followed on another forum the New York times ranked us 26th in the top 52 places to visit in 2015...that`s not bad, CX gave Manchester excellent coverage in their inflight mag when MAN-HKG service started, however I agree Visit Britain needs to market cities like Manchester and surrounding areas e.g the Lake District etc more widely.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...2015.html?_r=3

bayer328, the last year I sadly have to admit that I have only had one flight to MAN - in August last year. After that I've been busy the next two months fighting cancer (I'm now cancer free, but you never know if and when the big C will make a new visit). After that I've had a one week work trip to Hampshire last week in November and three weeks ago I was back after almost two weeks in Chile (again a work trip). What the coming months will bring I don't know, but I guess MAN will get two or four passengers in their statistics because of me this spring and summer. This is below my yearly average the last 13 years, but then I'm scheduled for a corrective plastic surgery in May. The main reason for me flying to MAN is not connected to the colours red and light blue. I have found my home away from home in your neighbourhood - a small hotel in Cheshire. This spot is perfect for exploring the northern part of Wales, Midlands, Yorkshire and the Humber and obviously the North West region.

Now a few examples of what I've done based in Cheshire:
- Visited a secret hangar filled with ex. Sovjet aircraft.
- Interviewed the BBMF boss for their 50 season (2007) Al Pinner and had longer chat with the next boss Ian Smith about the differences between flying Merlin and Griffon engined Spitfires.
- Searched and found the last hangar at Burtonwood (only weeks later it was gone).
- Visited the Hack Green secret nuclear bunker.
- After having finished a pint at the RAF 617 squadron pub I payed my respect to the victims by visiting the nearby graveyard.
- Learn more about the use of Tall Boy sinking the Tirpitz at Yorkshire Air museum.
- Bought an icecream at Scripps Garage.
- Found Eastvale.
The last two are not exactly connected to aviation or the military, but still some of you will nod knowingly.

I personally think its a pity MAN doesn't have a large legacy airline with connecting routes etc.

LN-KGL I had wondered where you were, I hope all is OK now
Just out of interest you posted on another forum which I cannot post on as it has a problem logging people in now on that you quoted the passenger figures of 22.4M late 2006 was this the total passengers incl
transit or terminal figures as I believe MAG use the latter which peaked at
22,263,687 in July 2006 and slowly declined after that and Dec was 22,143,999 . these figures are taken from their own published statistics
and run fairly close to the CAA figures.

ian

My goodness some "national coverage" about Manchester, albeit a few lines in the Express about record figures.

Sadly in order to gain some mileage about the Manchester figs it appears they had to crowbar them in as an after thought , with a lead headline about, wait for it, long haul at Stanstead .......or is it Stansted ! oops

Anyway we are in there if you hang on........................ till the end !

Stanstead to offer long-distance flights | Personal Finance | Finance | Daily Express

PS how on earth do you get the airport name wrong when an image of the airport with the name ON actually appears under same headline, marvelous !

What is the definition of "long distance flights" :zzz:

MAN-TFS at 4hrs is "long distance".......

Doors to Manuel as they say in TFS :ok:

Get it right!
 

Also mixing up people.....under the recently announced re-shuffle Ken O'Toole is MD of Manchester Airport (MAN), not MAG. He has no remit for Stansted, which the quote implies. Andrew Harrison is STN MD.

Sub-editors not doing their job properly: no proper proof-reading and too much reliance on "spellcheck" which can't cope with proper nouns (and uses US spelling for the rest). Comes under the general heading of "sloppy journalism".

Long lines at Terminal 3 Border.
 

Flew in yesterday lunchtime to Terminal 3 and was greeted with a long line for Passport Control. Took about 15 - 20 minutes to reach the desks, far slower than recent trips through Terminal 1. No good enough.

Maybe you'd like to write to UK Border Force and complain ?

Maybe they're just double checking everything.

Four arrested at Manchester Airport on suspicion of terrorism - BBC News

Rather wait 20 minutes than know someone was killed because
they were lax on checks

Border Force
 

I think someone would have been sacked if they hadn't picked up on the very well trailed return of those fools from Rochdale.

15-20 minutes is pretty good, can't see what there is to complain about!

Thomson have confirmed Aruba will be back for summer 2016.