If this is right it is a backward development for Belfast especially on international connections, when Northern Ireland is trying to build greater investment and tourism.


It just seems that IAG are focussing all their effort on Dublin now that BA and Aer Lingus are basically one entity. And the way the air tax system is skewed to favour flights out of Dublin it is hard to blame them for pushing business in that direction.


I wonder just how big an issue the continued burden of two way air passenger duty between Belfast and London, alongside high Heathrow airport charges, has been to forcing these reductions from BA?


Surely if brexit means brexit the UK government has to waken up soon to the continued damage that this policy of negative and uncompetitive taxation is causing?

So a cut by BA from 7 to 4 a day on BHD LHR equates to as much capacity as the BHD LGW EI route had, potentially more depending on aircraft size, ie 319/20 etc. A big hit to BHD, unfortunately.

However, on a commercial basis load factors in the 60%.
'S are not likely to be most attractive in the long run, KLM are picking up good numbers on AMS, and as a guide based on Dublin mix, potentially 70% of them are connecting, potentially at a loss to BA/EI via LHR.

The sheer and amazing growth on LGW ex BFS is bound to be having an impact on the route too, i'm convinced that APD is the cure for all ills , remember if it was removed, BA would likely still have a similar differential in pricing to FR/EZY who serve LGW...

As an aside the pax numbers on bhd lhr would suggest that ei/ba have not picked up the slack for UA's absence on LHR BHD...

I'm curious if BA's "Buy On Board" has an impact on passenger numbers?

Tbh I would say yes as people think why bother with BA as all the airlines the same. It was the last bastion of customer feeling wanted. But dont forget BA pulling in the money ex BHD as C class is proving a massive hit. Nearly all flights c class well into double digits and many of these going on in c or f ex LHR

But they are obviously not pulling in the money from C class though as the route has been cut severely.

Wasn't 6 not 7 daily before?

Last winter's program was a mish mash of timings and frequency. This winter it all makes more sense and the yied per pax from Belfast is one of the highest in the BA network. They fill a market as do EZY BE FR EI and every other airline that operates. BHD has bigger fish to fry just at the moment

"BHD has bigger fish to fry just at the moment", in what manner? The only fish Harbour has to worry about are the airline ones that just are not biting at all! For Harbour to have a London service to only Heathrow and London City shows just how much they don't chase the leisure market. I personally haven't used Harbour now for a few years for any London trips, business or pleasure, purely because the offering from Aldergrove is much superior in choice of airlines, airports and timings.

The general consensus that I am getting is a feeling that Harbour management has slowly lost its way a bit over the last few years, the entire operation has become stagnant. Its the same old faces and jobs for the boys, theres no fresh skill and talent coming through but rather staff that have been promoted way beyond their ability when things were easy and now its beginning to show. Aldergrove on the other hand have proved that they can attract business which in turn attracts further business and expansion, this appears to be mostly at the expense of Harbour!:eek:

I know the aviation business is a cyclical beast but at the moment Harbour is at the wrong part of the curve.:uhoh:

I would have never before have agreed with Pan, however his post is extremely sensible. Very well informed also. Alteagod, it's obvious that the BHD/LHR certainly isn't the golden money pot it was years ago. IAG group load factor not to good across BA/EI. EI using the former Shannon timings which are horrendous. As for yield, I would also suggest this is far from high. As for BA, they are probably back to their old trick of allocation the smallest proportion of through fare to the domestic sector in order to show a loss. If I completely wrong then BA would not be taking a hatchet to their Belfast services.

May CAA stats
 

Not a good month for City, overall down 9%, international looking particularly bad with the exception of AMS.

You need a new username.

Pointless trying to be positive on hear about BA or post any good or positve points as so many have already made there mind up. I am not permited in an open forum to discuss but shud amyone which to pm me feel free. The world is not just orange nor does it have a golden harp or does it even be purple. It is demoralizing knowing how anti everything this thread has become regarding BHD. Some of us actually work there and enjoy doing so please just give it a rest

Alteagod, I absolutely marvel at how you can possibly come on to this forum and suggest that one of BA's highest yielding routes is BHD. It is laughable. The airline sees no more than 60's in terms of loads, and is almost cutting half the schedule, these indicators do not point to one of the highest performing routes, and as somebody who claims to work at BHD, you are most unlikely to know that kind of information.

As for people being negative on here about BHD, some of it is warranted, sorry to say that. It has come to a point where virtually none of the BFS operators could warrant flying to/from BHD, in terms of operational restrictions, there are too many, it closes too early this making the unit costs of operating a base there impossible, car parking costs are an absolute joke, making holidays from the place unrealistic for anybody who doesn't live reasonably near. At this stage the best they can hope for is to attract a selection of Easyjet flights which could be operated from other bases e.g. CDG, BCN, GVA, PMI - but most unlikely....hence drawing on the BFS competition is not easily accessible.

If the figures for BHD were positive then everyone would be posting about how wonderful the airport is. However, the facts show that BHD is in decline at a time when other airports are experiencing double digit growth, so quite frankly, the negative comments are completely warranted.

If we have a quick look at Aer Lingus' sun routes from BHD, passenger numbers fell substantially compared with May 2016.

FAO - down 24%
ALC - down 58%
AGP - down 24%
PMI - down 40%

Last May Aer Lingus carried 33,194 passengers on their sun routes - this May they carried only 22,558. If BHD was a lucrative base, they wouldn't have slashed flights.

Meanwhile at BFS, passenger figures for these four routes are up between 22-100% since last May.

In the last year Aer Lingus, Flybe and now British Airways have slashed capacity from BHD - this completely bucks the trend so BHD must be doing something wrong.

The only piece of good news that I can find from the May figures is that AMS numbers are up 22% to 4,383 - that's 71 pax per flight so maybe in the mid to long term we'll see a second daily flight.

Honestly, unless BHD can attract a) several legacy carriers to offer high frequency hub connections, or b) low cost airlines to establish a base at the airport, then BHD's passenger numbers will continue to collapse.

Maybe because they dropped just under 11,000 seats with less flights.......

You're right Jamie. EI planned in a reduced capacity on every route, not least because FR has appeared on 3 out of 4 of them. Also worth bearing in mind last year EI operated an increased schedule on every route, 9 times a week to FAO and AGP for instance.

Not long ago people were on here calling for the closure of BHD because it was taking all the business from BFS, it's like BHD is doomed in the plane spotters mind whatever it does. Fact is I've used BFS a lot this last while, mainly because of the abundance of cheap flights and its not a bad facility, picking people up from there is an embarrassing experience, the pick up zone is crowded out to a stupid degree, the front of the airport is quite dirty and run down, and really the arrivals hall is yes functional but it too is like something from a by gone era. Compare this to BHD.....

the front of the airport is quite dirty and run down, and really the arrivals hall is yes functional but it too is like something from a by gone era. Compare this to BHD.....

I have to say, I would never choose to use a particular airport based on architectural merit....

The coffee at BHD is better too.

BHD would be well served, if it is to maintain international aspirations by doing something to improve the access by train. Bus access is well served, albeit by having to go into the city centre, but the train halt is just far enough away that people wouldn't think to want to use it. Two city airports I have used recently, Newcastle and Edinbrough both have brilliant public transport links into town without too much faffing about. A halt immediately opposite BHD would do well. I'm from Bangor and the public transport hassle/ higher costs would make me default to BFS for a flight to Spain.
I also suspect many people don't really know about the international destinations from BHD, despite some advertising, but I would say they don't seem to be very well supported with media campaigns and seat sales to raise interest.
A runway extension, despite the objections of the NIMBYs would be a big boon too, allowing a further breadth of destinations to be reached.

Haha whatever. I know and love BFS despite its shabby appearance. I just wonder what people think that land there for the first time from abroad, given they have a choice and so many arrive at DUB

I just wonder what people think that land there for the first time from abroad, given they have a choice and so many arrive at DUB

"Great, flight over, I survived, I am tired, where is the car hire desk? I am glad I didn't fly into Dublin as I am visiting Northern Ireland which saves me an unnecessary 100 mile journey. Oh and the dollar goes further here."
"what about the airport?". "Hell it was an airport, you know planes, noise and people!"

Believe what you want to believe. I nor anyone else will help change your mind in fact before you make up your mind open it first. I know my facts I know the yields and I know the league tables of were the BHD operation fits in that data from BA.

Forgive me while I reminisce, many many years ago I recall flying from a fledgling Harbour, basically a tin hut in those days! All the staff were employed by Harbour airport and every one knew each other and in many cases were able to do several jobs.

Fast forward a lot of years and the buzz word was "contract out", the staff loyalty slowly disappeared and the operation has continued to grow. The staff all by now employed by a myriad of different companies and the personal touch has gone. From what I am led to believe the same Harbour management structure has been left largely intact, I don't believe there are any direct employees by Harbour anymore, just managers who in a lot of cases know 2 fifths of nothing about the running of an airport - but hey, they are managers and are experts so they know best, right?:ugh: How many of the managers at Harbour have worthwhile aviation experience at a variety of airports? Climbing the corporate ladder at a desk bound office job doesn't count. Doing a degree in some weird and wonderful theory doesn't count. Being promoted because you have connections doesn't count.

Getting business counts. Pushing to expand the current operation counts. Fighting back against untruths in the news counts. Fighting fire with fire rather than saying nothing counts.

I recall when Harbour seemed to be stymied at every turn by Aldergrove objecting to any sign of expansion, Harbours reaction in public at least, was - nothing.

To an outsider like me, Harbours intention seems to be just wait and see. Let Easy and Ryanair and Jet2 all fight at Aldergrove for the same routes. Maybe, just maybe at some stage one of the operators will say enough and come down to Harbour. I still find it astounding that Harbour some years ago had routes to every London airport, they have nearly all gone and don't look likely to be replaced. Where have those passengers gone? My guess is Aldergrove! I stand by previous posts - Harbour is stagnant and will continue to deteriorate unless action is taken, that is something I take no pleasure in saying as I have used this friendly little airport many times over the years but not recently, perhaps the new owners will shake things up a bit - its long overdue! :sad:

Extract from the Belfast Telegraph business section

Katy Best, commercial and marketing director at George Best Belfast City Airport, said: "Belfast City Airport is enjoying an exciting period, as highlighted by the launch last month of our three-times weekly flight to Reykjavik with Icelandair, which is serving key cities such as Boston, Seattle and Toronto.

"Strategic air connectivity is vital to maintaining the success which Belfast City Airport has enjoyed in recent years and we are confident of continuing to grow our route network.

"While our domestic passenger figures for May 2017 were impacted by the reduction of capacity on Flybe's Liverpool route, we have seen an increase in passengers across a large number of other UK routes.

"Aer Lingus began its popular sunshine routes later than last year and we also lost a significant number of passengers through the cessation of our Brussels flight in March, both of which affected our international figures for the month.

"However, our KLM flight to Amsterdam continues to go from strength-to-strength, enjoying an impressive 22% increase in passenger figures in May."


I'm sure the new bosses can't wait to see how excited Ms Best gets when the figures continue to tank as the year progresses! Commercial and marketing director? Is that the same as spin doctor?:confused:

Unless of course, there is a new deal imminent to recover the passenger demise to date, now that would be worth getting excited about!:hmm:

BA cuts
 

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/news/disappointment-at-decision-by-ba-to-reduce-belfast-flights-to-heathrow-35899871.html


The Telgraph has caught up with PPRUNE

Aer Lingus ending flights to Alicante and Palma earlier than planned according to BBC website
Does not hold well for next year!!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-40520319

Wow, the excitement just keeps building! The directors must be in party mood by now!:uhoh:

One point of interest though from the Telegraph article, there are still fares of £16.99 available on Fri 14th July with Ryanair to Gatwick. How sustainable is that in the long run between Ryanair and Easyjet? Would there be a temptation for Easy to move some routes down to Harbour as they did before with Luton? Is this what Harbour are banking on in the long run? So many questions but looks like no quick answers!

Running away again
 

Ah the Dubs are at it again....

The luton service to bhd was nothing to do with cheap flights, it was to do with airport contracts

I have often seen fares out of Belfast quite cheap just after the 12th. Rush out over. Nothing new in my opinion.

What interests me more is that it is not that long ago we were being told BHD was the airport of choice for many. People had to fly into BHD or they would not come at all. Seems to me that many routes that have transferred from BFS to BHD have then withered on the vine and died. Remember higher yields for airlines out of BHD?

True Blue, various airlines have arrived or increased routes and frequency from BFS this year, also predominantly FR's arriving with very low price fares is what's mostly driving growth at BFS. Nothing has changed geographically, BHD is still on the doorstep for thousands of Belfast residents in comparison to BFS, but price is one of the biggest things which drives people to make a booking. There is multiple airlines both scheduled and charter fighting over the same holiday makers 2 weeks in Spain, EI which grew last year significantly over 2015 this year have met with FR and capacity increases from other airlines too, hence they've suffered - this I'd imagine has little to do with which Belfast airport they are flying from.

Mart,
I think that is the point True Blue is making exactly, it has little to do with which airport you fly from, many on here explained the overwhelming point of difference that BHD over BFS, however, the stats bear out that not to be so true ....

Kids fly free from Belfast to Heathrow with British Airways, up to 2 children can fly free with 1 adult!

That's a very very good deal, Heathrow can be a very expensive airport to get to.

Looks like FR picking up the mess that EI have left customers in
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-40533982

Seems like management at BHD will have to pedal quite a bit harder to make the current strategy a success.


The idea of high airline yield which has been trotted out for so long doesn't appear to be happening with BA giving away free seat promotions. It seems that the high yields achievable at London City don't read across to high yields applying at Belfast City.


A trail of airlines - Air Berlin, bmibaby, Vueling, Brussels Airlines, Ryanair, easyJet have all come and gone from BHD in recent years, KLM are stuck on one daily flight while they are growing big-style in Dublin and even Inverness, and now its clear that Aer Lingus and BA are under pressure there too.


Through it all flybe have been the mainstay.


It will be interesting to see how the newly installed owners at BHD look to take the airport forward.

I agree entirely with the comment regarding the current strategy, thats assuming there is one! Its becoming ever more apparent that it just might not be working in the anticipated manner. The question is what to do about it? Keep going under the illusion that it is simply another part of this exciting time or face reality and come up with a Plan B, quickly!

I wonder what projected figures were presented to the new owners and what will the adjusted ones be.:uhoh:

Perhaps Harbour had become complacent and now Ryanair has arrived and really shaken the market Harbour management might just be regretting the decision not to pursue the runway extension from a few years ago. Its quite ironic that the battle they fought was seats for sale, probably totally unnecessary now!

A runway extension and more realistic opening hours would go a long way to attracting new business, providing of course Aldergrove don't let their pet concerned residents groups of the leash again. Whatever happened to Belfast City Airport Watch? I miss them spouting nonsense on the local news, it was quite entertaining.:}

And where is the business case for extended runway and opening hours when we have all we need and more, up at Bfs?

BHD with Port of Belfast backing would make a great urban village. 1000,s of houses, offices etc.

Blah blah blah and BFS would make a lovely set of farmers fields. Grow up. People posting drivel on here know fine rightly there is no way BFS could accommodate the trade of BHD throughout the summer. My wife and I shared a table in BFS the other night with 4 sets of people, none of whom we knew - because there was nowhere else for us or them to sit down. It's tired and tatty in places and desperately needs investment, and I'm a big supporter of it, I'm not knocking it but we need to get real. BHD had its glory years of growth and now BFS is, thanks to FR mostly and other airlines reaction to them.
Fact is BHD is brilliant at what it does, and I have to say on the balance it's a more pleasant experience using it than BFS, the security queues are like a quarter of the length for starters. BE continue to offer high frequency domestic routes and I'm sure they will find the niche with euro routes, maybe regional aircraft operators will be the future.

Shame to see them ending early but W routes are always a pain for operators. If they are not making money they are not worth it.

The 21.99 rescue fare by FR tells it's own story.