MANCHESTER - 8
 

Sure I saw someone start the new MAN thread but it seems to have disappeared...:ooh:

Anyway, anyone heard of plans to use some of the aircraft Apron in the NW corner for car parking this summer? :eek:

If so, what is the reason and is this permanent or temporary?

Suzeman

Heard there is a plan to relocate staff west to the apron either up in the corner or to the end of T2... Either way, i am certain that MAPLC will make a complete and utter bollocks of it!

Its permanent.

Seems MAPLC needs more room to park cars and less to park planes.

The details can be found on the MAG website in the document library under airfield directives.

Re: Pier B discussion from Thread 7

Having just read some of the negative comments about Pier B, I find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with them. As a regular user of T1 the Pier B experience is horrible, particularly on arrival. Actually for what is claimed to be one of Europe's leading airports and by far the biggest UK airport outside London, it's just embarrassing. To the first time visitor, god only knows what image it first portrays of Manchester and of England.

However, many of the negative comments were related to Passport Control. There is nothing MAPlc can do about the queues or staffing levels there or about the extent of checks and the time they take. Those that complain about this cannot be regular flyers otherwise they would have registered for Iris or increasingly will have got themselves a scannable passport that can be used at the e border. I'm lucky - I have both and trust me it takes me seconds to go through Passport Control in T1 with those two options at my disposal. In June on a Lufthansa flight, I timed touchdown on Runway 1 to parking on Stand 23 and out to the station concourse in 21 minutes - ok I was in Row 1, no bags and I'm a fast walker but that is an incredible result.
But this misses the point about the rest of the arrival experience, the whole place is depressing and drags you down. Where ever you've been, arriving at T1 MAN, it still feels down at heel - I won't use the words 'Third World' which many on here often do - it isn't - but certainly some of the less wealthy parts of Eastern Europe spring readily to mind.

With the arrival of the A380 and F class soon and them using Pier B, I find it quite incredible that Emirates have allowed it to happen. They already use T2 which is functional (despite all the clutter)and works well with large modern airliners because it was designed for them. Pier B was designed for Vickers Viscounts et al. I would, if I were to pay First Class fares, expect the whole experience to be much better than Pier B albeit with the future promise of a lick of emulsion and new carpet tiles. Stand 15 is also one heck of a trek from the lounges.
Demolition seems the only credible choice. The fact is: Pier B is disfunctional, anachronistic and not fit for purpose.

PS: Pier C is not a whole lot better btw

Hi Suzeman,

Yes, I originally started a new MANCHESTER - 8 thread. However, I deleted it when I noticed that the software interface between my IMAC and the PPRuNe website had converted my capital letters to lower case. It all looked a bit naff so I got rid. I have noticed before that text inserted in the 'title' box converts itself to lower case; very frustrating!

SHED.

Pier B
 

Designed before the Government knee jerked and decided arriving international passengers were much to dangerous to come into contact with departing international passengers. Why is that? Doesn't seem to worry them one whit at AMS, GVA et al?

Can someone link to the reason?

Apparently this utterly threw the passenger flows at the then new North Terminal at LGW.... My laboured point being that older terminals where this is still an issue and predate the ruling, T1 International , all of T2 and one remaining pier T3 at LHR are the obvious ones I use, are being bulldozed slowly bit by bit and replaced. Glasgow's old international pier is of the same layout and age and is now reduced to handling easyJet and Loganair traffic.

Might it have been a better capital investment plan to refit the terminals rather than pour the concrete for that second runway? These investments have a rather long lead time, and any demolition and rebuild would mean moving the A380 ops to where? Has the arrival of the A380 perhaps delayed the necessary reuild

Following on from the previously mentioned Icelandair incerase to 5 weekly from 14th September to the 26th October, they've revealed that they will be at 5 weekly from 12th April to 6th June.

Ah good Mr Shed - glad I wasn't imagining it - hadn't been to the pub by then! :) As you can see, it has done the same to my capital letters too, but then my standards are lower, so I pressed on!

Thanks Viscount for the link to the MAG website. Seems like the car park on the stands is at least longish term as the AD quotes "until further notice" and the change will eventually be incorporated in the Aerodrome Manual. Looks like it should be possible to reverse this though at reasonably short notice if needed.

The question is - if the stands are currently not needed for aircraft because there isn't demand and pax numbers are way down, where are all the cars coming from?

And I note that T2 pier served stands are being rearranged so that there are less MARS stands, although I guess there are a fair number of wide bodies on there now all through the day, so it practice it probably doen't make much difference to actual capacity.

Less stands is bad news though for all the potential diversions this winter :}

Skippy
The issue of segregation of inbound /outbound in the UK has been going on for 30 years now. The story I heard about LGW North was that the powers that be in BAA decided to plough on with their new development in the 1980s with mixing of passengers despite the UK DOT or whatever it was called at the time suggesting that this was not acceptable. DOT's argument was (and probably still is) that inbound passengers may not have been screened at their departure airport to the same high UK standards and there is therefore a possibility of some collusion between inbound and outbound pax transferring weapons or whatever. The end result should be that everyone in the restricted zone of the terminal is screened to UK standards, not the standard of some other countries.

Anyway, the end result of this BAA defiance at LGW North was they were forced to segregate at the gate by means of a perimeter corridor for inbounds with consequent delays to boarding or unloading as no boarding could take place when inbound pax were in the corridor and vv - rather like the south side of MAN's Pier C now.

Existing developments in the UK at the time were exempt and pressure from the airports not to spend money on this kept it that way until 9/11 although monitoring of the mixing areas was increased. After 9/11 MAN was obliged to segregate its old piers in a very short space of time as there was not enough space in the piers for segregated gate lounges with security and this resulted in the mish mash of routes you enjoy today!

I presume from your comments that there are still mixing areas at LHR - not been through there for so long now thank goodness so I don't know. I presume that security screening is done in a cordoned off gate lounge immediately before boarding in these areas and once through the screening there is no contact with inbound pax?

Incidentally, doesn't AMS do gate lounge security immediately before boarding after which there is no mixing? And at GVA when I was last there a few months ago the flows were certainly segregated on the piers.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing.....In the 1990s slots at prime times at MAN were in short supply and a couple of airlines didn't start as they couldn't get anywhere near the times they wanted despite single runway capacity being declared at 50+ /hour in some hours. A runway was what was needed at the time and in those days a runway had longer lead times due to the planning process. And nobody else had built one for 20+years at the time (before that was EDI?) so it was a step in the dark for everyone.

The increased scheduling limits were used in peak hours as soon as the runway opened. Since then the world has changed dramatically but who could have predicted it then? The next stage of work after the runway opened was to move onto the terminals and expand them rather than refurbish. It didn't happen for obvious reasons and only recently did they finally start to get to grips with them.

With the lower throughput figures, the good news is that it is of course easier to refurb and alter an operational terminal. The bad news is that revenues are inevitablty down so how can you afford it? Oh to be an airport manager these days :eek:

Suzeman

EDIT: Title now sorted!

Apron to Car Parks.
 

Apparently the car parking issue isn't capacity driven, but commercially driven, (from the top) as the the Stands that are being converted to car-parking will be for the " VALET " service. I hear that £10 a day per car has been mentioned. Drop your car off at the Valet reception, hand your keys over and off you go.
Your car will be parked on a tip top surface!!!
I suppose the maths are quite simple and if there's a sudden increase in the number of stands required then they can fairly quickly be brought back to service again.
However if you were a passenger who had just completed an Ocean crossing and arrived at Man a tad early due to favourable winds en-route, you'd be pretty hacked off if you had to sit around on the ground for 40 or 50 mins awaiting a stand (which happens all too regularly at the moment with no stand closures!)? Yes I know it's sometimes the Airlines that request the a/c to be held as they want to Gate it on an air bridged stand, but hells teeth, no stands because they are car-parks!:{
However this is not a new idea, as MA regularly take stands out of service to park snow clearing vehicles on them, or Fuel bowsers (Stand 64 & 65).
Why don't we go one better and make Runway 2 into the Valet parking area or even turn into a racing circuit as it appears to be damn all use for 80% of the time.:(
So lets hear it for the joined-up thinking team of MA ------ (silence!!):ugh:

As for the car parks... I find it laughable that the apron is being converted for valet parking. Contrary to popular belief, Staff West is not free. The companies have to pay for their staff members to park there. But once again, MAPLC craps all over the staff by making us park in a car park that simply is not fit for purpose. There are potholes the size of the Grand Canyon all over the damned place... hell, my car has been damaged there... unnecessary speed bumps, not enough convenient parking and the whole area is very poorly lit. I will simply not allow my female members of staff to walk around there after dark. I take one of the ramp vehicles and give them a lift so at least I know that none of them have been robbed or raped. The Wythenshawe Massive do lurk about in there at night! Perhaps the PLC should consider the "new" parking areas for use by staff rather than SLF. We are the ones who have to park at this hell hole of an airport every day!

Just a thought.

Just a slight change to its schedule, the Emirates A380 on 1st september has been given an extended ground time for its first flight, presumably for promotional tours etc.

EK17 lands at 12:25, and EK18 usually departs at 14:10, but for 1st september, EK18 will depart at 15:20.

I think this recent schedule change puts to bed any rumours that the first A380 will be delayed by a week.

RE: EK A380, can't wait for her to come in. i'm pulling as many strings as possible to get a very very good view of the aircraft, and if they are now thinking of doing promotional tours 'inside', i think i'm gonna have to pull a few more strings............ lol

£36 a month for Staff West I believe, and some companies make staff pay for their own parking!

:ugh:

EK A380
 

The extra 75 mins is for press & PR and the Emirates VIP's.

No 'unapproved' airport staff will be allowed near the aircraft. There is an airside bulletin shortly advising all airside staff to only view from designated points.

We couldn't have the 'great unwashed' airport staff sullying up the photo ops now could we. Typical of MAN's disdain for the staff that keep winning them bloody awards! Besides, most of the folks that I know that are gonna be dealing with this behemoth aren't exactly looking forward to the 'experience'.

Who or what are unapproved staff I wonder!!

I doubt whether the 'unapproved' staff give a $%^& it's an aeroplane not exactly something to get all excited about!:yuk:

A380 first visit
 

Hardly suprising, and completely understandable that there might be restricted access to the aircraft on 1st September. This almost certainly will be the first ever visit by the type to MAN, arriving on a scheduled service at a totally rebuilt stand with new facilities. All other A380 destination airports have had the benefit of an operational trial, ZRH had the aircraft there for 3 whole days at the insistence of the Swiss CAA. To give all those staff involved in the successful first turnaround a fighting chance of getting it back out on time, the last thing they need is throngs of sightseers. Simple as that. The A380 will be a daily event, plenty of opportunities to have a look around in due course.

The A380 will be a daily event, plenty of opportunities to have a look around in due course.

Exactly. I know its exciting, but dont panic of no-one gets up close and personal on the its first flight, Its going to be at MAN every single day from 1st september. Its not a one off so Im sure everyone will get their chance to see.
Personally, Id rather non essential bystanders stay away and let the staff turn it around in the quickest possible time, and send it off with no delay. Lets show the world what MAN is made of and have a perfect turn around without having 'familiarisation days' and numerous tests. :ok:

EK A380
 

BHX held a similar day when A6-EDE came in 12 months ago, it all went very smoothly.

I hope the Manchester event goes as well !

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/banad/...unt=20&dir=asc

If you are correct, this is a terrible indictment of the business today. This is an iconic aircraft in the mould of the 747 and Concorde. I would hope as many people as possible who work at the airport would be enthusiastic about it and want to look at it and know more about it. It certainly used to be the case. And I'm sure there will be lots of the public at and around the airport to see it.

I realise of course that it is an operational aircraft and access needs to be restricted. Pity that a test flight is not being made first so that more people could have a closer look.

Suzeman

MAN an "approved 'future' destination" got a "flyby".
BHX for an "anniversary" got a 'full visit'
Says a lot......
Will the AHS run out of tissiues? :zzz:

Not got problem with this new car park ( staff west) on stand. Would love to bring the bus onto 22 and have the family waggon waiting! Save the maze of fortune in T1.

My bet is on double daily A380 before the year is out so plenty of time to gaze at it :)

Well, I would have tried the new girl out in October on my MAN-SIN trip. However, a J class ticket was twice the price of Lufthansa. So, gonna settle for a A319 + A343 without the stupid o clock plane change. If that's typical pricing (I may have been unlucky) then I can't see them filling 2 x A380s a day.

Re Emirates Pricing

On a theme, a work colleagues based near MAN is on way to Maldives Mid Aug, but was staggered to find out he is going out and returning via LGW.

The LGW flight was £1000 cheaper than MAN on same day same return date......:ugh:

...does it ever work the other way where flights are cheaper EX MAN than London ?

Your eyes will bleed if you do. I am looking forward to trying the A380 LHR-CDG-LHR next week but it really struggles to *look* good. Better looking from the inside out I think. Trust me, by Christmas you'll all be wondering what on Earth the fuss was about and getting back to gazing at better looking aircraft.

In theory the many more London pax pay willing to pay more on business trips subsidise the Y pax who pay can less on leisure fares. That's one of the benefits of a really big hub operation.
In theory.

If that's typical pricing (I may have been unlucky) then I can't see them filling 2 x A380s a day.

Well, its just over a month until the A388 kicks in, and if they are still charging this, to me it seems a good sign that people are paying it. When they have to start heavily reducing the J/F class fares, then we should worry.

Also, the problem with 2 A380s is not so much pax, as I habe no doubt EK could easily fill 2 of those things from MAN, but their issue would be cargo.
EK have already stated cargo has taken a huge hit thanks to the A380, and putting 2 A380s on would kill them. EY/QR would soon jump on that oppertunity, as QR are already studying B773 ops at MAN to try and take some of the displaced EK cargo.

The A380 is only adding an extra 70+ plus pax, it will be full most days. Give it a few months or within a year then they will make up the extra pax and cargo on an extra AM B773.

Went to Dublin yesterday for a business trip, flew with FR and all was ok.

Anyway, stand 09 going out and I noticed that Pier B is blocked off after Stand 11. Carpet has been taken up in the arrivals side and re-decorating is also taking place, the only thing different from the departures end is the mobile air con units and the usual leaking celings and stained carpet. So the gate 12 area will be after gate 11 and from the outside (when l was boarding and later yesterday de-boarding my FR flight) it looked quite a big gate area which also looked like it was being re-decorated, I hope to god it's tiled flooring and not carpet again! So the grey extension at the end of Pier B is what exatley? I take it the airbridges will connect the this? Pier B was very busy yesterday when I was there, 4 Jet 2 flights, 4 Monarch flights, Aer Lingus flight and my Ryanair flight, so how will it cope with the Dubai A380 flights? Also, hear EK will be using Stand 12 for the evening 777 flight too?
Come on MAN, Pier B needs re-placeing now! I did see an artists impression of what the new Pier B might look like but can't find it now, anyone have this link? It surley needs to be much higher, wider and longer than it is now?
Could Peir B go any longer? Wouldn't it block taxiways towards 23R/05L? If there will be 2 levels, then the height must be important and well as width, if MAN wants the current T2 transalantic flights to use T1, then Pier B is no way near as capable at the moment.
Pier C is better but still in need of a lot of work, new flooring, esclators and bigger seating areas at gates if the "bigger" flights are to use T1 in the future.
And finally I'm confused with the gating numbers on Pier B - noticed stand 12 has 12L, 12 & 12R. We have Stands 10 & 11 either side of these, but were are 13 & 14? I also see stand 15 is next to 12R? Anyone clarify?

Right, long rant over, comments more than welcome.

Where are the stands?
 

If you look at the ground chart from NATS dated 10 May 10:

http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadba...2010-07-29.pdf

You'll see there is no stand 14 to keep either side of the stand odd/even. There is no stand 13 (or gate 13) at any UK airport so not that likely to find one at MAN.

Regards

Flyboy

I'm not sure about gate numbers, but Luton has a stand 13, and so do.....
Gatwick, Stansted, Birmingham, Newcastle......

A. 380 ops & gate issues.
 

I am told that when ever an A.380 is parked on stand 12, Stands 8,9,10,11, and 15 will close for use by pax.
That's not to say a/c will not be parked on them during this time, but only if they are not going to require to de-plane or load-up any pax.
By doing this the Emirates punters will have almost half of Pier B to themselves, - it just doesn't get much better than that does it !!!!!:oh:

Passed in and out of T3 this week (first time for a while) and am still impressed with the speed of security there from dropping my bag to sitting in the bar took no more than 10 mins.
The low number gates, although a bit of a walk work well and are clean and tidy.
On return, from landing through to collecting my bag and getting in the car was no more than 20 mins so:ok:

Am going through T1 next week so will have to wait and see.

One question though I travelled Tuesday morning and had expected to see departing aircraft using 23L but the airport seemed to be running single runway despite being busy. Apologies if its been discussed earlier.

Rob

I agree that the convienience of T3 is still there. Whilst security has been upgraded and is much more bright and modern, once in the departure lounge it is now starting to show its age and in need of a little spruce up (at least it was 2 month ago when i last passed through T3).

Are there any immediate plans for an overhaul of this part of T3? I know once T1 was almost complete they were to focus on T2, so i'm guessing it won't be too long for T3 to get a lick of paint at least?...

whats up with the DL155 2day, it has not left manchester yet

The replacement for the one that didn't arrive this morning landed a few minutes ago. Don't know what's up with the original aircraft though, but am surprised they've flown a replacement aircaft in and not looked at rebooking pax on to KL/AF routing through AMS & CDG.

Crew were out of hours last I heard.

T3 is a mess these days, since they moved security. Having lived in the NW for 30 years I know the airport well, but for occasional travellers, navigating from T3 security to the main lounge is horrible, with poor signage and no obvious routes....a bit like parts of NCL. T3 needs more than a coat of paint!

ok cheers guys hope they were weel looked after, i got delayed 8 hours on thomsons the other week, and to be honest was bored sxxtless having to wait in terminal 2