No, the decline in SAS profitability is primarily due to SK having c**p management, and also buying Spanair didn't help. The increase in the value of the bmi slots at LHR will have actually boosted the SAS bottom line, if they are kept on the balance sheet.

Comment on what the post ACTUALLY SAYS
 

Is that not clear enough? It does not say that the decline in profitability of SK is due to British Midland.
It says "The share of income from affiliated companies <snip> is primarily attributable to the negative earnings in British Midland"
Could not be clearer.

Slot values are not revenue. Even if we accept that slot values should appear on an airlines balance sheet (and many airlines do not agree with this), it might be worth bearing in mind that slot values have only gone down lately and likely to drop further.

bmi Heathrow Ops having a bit of a re-shuffle in the next few months. More Embraers, more A330 flights and A320/1s to be released onto charter flights.

So fewer Caribbean/US flights out of MAN so, I guess? Also heard that all LBA-LHR flights are to be operated by ERJs this winter.

Personally I thought the 3 ex Silver Jet 762s (and two BY ones) which should be available would be perfect for the middle east and DME ex LHR. They could have retained 50J lie-flat seats from the SJ config and had about 100 Y seats.

It might have allowed for all the 332s to be MAN based, possibly the displaced 320/321s going to WW at MAN (as per rumors on the WW thread), allowing the MAN based 737s to be moved to CWL or BHX.

Brian.

This could mean the end of baby (maybe just at Manchester). Mainline fleet semi-moving to MAN to cover EMB's moving south. Reduction in domestic - maybe introduction of something like Moscow or Tel Aviv with 320's. One 330 (from ORD? rotation - leaving Caribbean) to move to LHR for Middle East routes.

Yes, but you and Copenhagen have misinterpreted what it says. The negative earnings are over the longer term (i.e. a bad investment decision by SK). Bmi made an operating profit last year, regardless of slots.

Obviously it will struggle to make a profit this summer, as will almost every airline - but that is nothing to do with the SK investment issue.

Major schedule changes coming up for MME, LBA and JER to LHR and all of them will be operated by Embraers this winter. Jersey going onto a 135 with no morning JER-LHR flight is a particular sign that this route must be struggling.

Rumours for Summer 2009 that the MAN-LAS/Caribbean routes will be pulled and one A330 moved to Heathrow to cover some of the longer flying from there.

I think a complete shutdown of 330 MAN operations is odds on. Now bmi has the slots and a business plan which works @ LHR there is no need for them at MAN.

I sthere just me appalled by the comment because they now has the slots and a businness plan that works at LHr they dont need to ooperate the flights from manchester.

Are we to assume you think manchester shouldnt have the flights it has then?

The same airframe will make more money from Heathrow alas. It's a no brainer.

I am sure the air frames would possibly make more at LHR, but who are BMI outside of the UK? Was it DEL they tried and soon gave up on out of there?

It was Mumbai...
 

BOM was the Indian route BMI tried out of LHR. This is turning into another thread very similar to the BA trhead when they announced they were pulling off MAN-JFK. If BMI can make more with the 330's at LHR good for them. It maybe key to their survival in the current market.

At the end of the day the routes ex MAN are primarily leisure routes; if they can get high yield business class pasengers from LHR to the back of beyond, they'd be stupid to kick a gift horse in the mouth.

In a ideal world where 3-4 330's could appear out of thin air, think both MAN and LHR would be good business options and not putting all one's eggs in one basket.

Until there are a enough people in the MAN catchment area prepared to spend £3-5,000 return for a business class seat on a longhaul route, that can achieve a high load factor, longhaul from MAN is impractical in the current economic climate.

While not disputing the fact that BMI's A330's could generate a greater revenue from LHR and there fore a potentially more profit, there are also other issues to take into consideration. There is far more competition at LHR than MAN, the more operators on a given route is surely going to reduce the amount of money it can make.
If it chooses to launch a route to a new destination with a airframe taken from MAN then it needs to be sure that it can make money on the route in a shorter period of time as possible. Added to which if it does not replace the Manchester based airframe then it has to fore go the revenue it generates and presumably that routes contributions to it's overall profits.
While not just a BMI issue higher yield front end services surely need to be offered from Manchester, if they are not then how are you going to grow the up take of both first and business class.
I seem to remember BMI announced a intention to ordered some five A330's in July 2007 what has happened to this order are they delayed or cancelled.

bmi to ord contributed almost 10mill to bmi's profit margin last year
and whilst the las and car routes are not doing fantastic!, for bmi to start a new route ex lhr at this moment in time would be crazy!!!!
new route costs usually est at around 2mill so that would be an immed loss to bmi and then you will have the aircraft flying around empty for a good few months (even ex lhr). If bmi were to take one of the 330's back down to lhr the only place i could see it flying would be to Saudi.
Trust me i cant see it happening till at least oct09, if at all !

Funny how some people don't want to remember how the BOM route went. Perhaps that's why some refer to it as a "no brainer"? Pretty sure I read that the A330 are being spruced up in J class due customer demand (apparently demanded by passengers that MAN doesn't have?!)

You have internal access to confidential route yield info? I'm impressed ( and disbelieving ! ) Anyhoo I take your point that Mumbai was a poor performer. However, aircraft for aircraft, yield for yield, Heathrow wins hands down alas.

BMI didnt go head-long into Transatlantic from Heathrow at the time
all the new Americans started up - for a reason - not because they
couldnt source frames!
After looking at the American ops from Heathrow in the past six months, to gauge the profitability of possibly starting some routes,
they may have realised that routes elsewhere may need looking at?
The slots they hold at Heathrow are not going anywhere.
Or maybe the puppet master has pulled a string or two.........

MM

:ugh:Everyone is going on about all the slots bmi have!
Have you all forgotten the 55 slot pairs that have to be handed back to BA as part of the BMed deal.
Some routes will have to go first before any can be added.....

I have heard from a mate in planning at BA that they are thinking of leasing the slots to BD for winter 08/09 and possibly summer09 until new aircraft come into the BA fleets or until the fuel price drops and the economy picks up.

Rumours Of A Big Announcement On Monday?? Follow On From Announcement Last Week Of Termination Of Two Midhaul Routes For Winter - Ankara And Ekatinberg. Most Probally With Reference To Either Regional Or Mainline Routes!! Any one any goss???

Must be an upgrade for one of the E135 routes as one is to be used from LHR this winter (doing Jersey and probably others).

baby summer 09 is already on sale. There has been noise of new routes to the Middel East.

Bmi will have to hand over 50+ slot pairs to BA as part of the Bmed deal. So in effect, Bmi got access to the Bmed markets at the expense 50+ slot pairs from other routes. BA got into a franchise deal with Bmed because the markets that Bmed served were recognised by BA as volatile (eg Beirut, political situation in some others etc) and difficult to make money on. So is it going to be any different for Bmi?

So what routes are going? And to maintain this level of service on the Bmed routes quite a few will have to go. I suspect that LBA, MME and in the future JER will all get the axe?

BUD,

your close but no cigar!:=

regards

K.I.L.

Def something happening announcement wise.........today. Hope all is well!?! :hmm:

Hi ei-bud
you are quite right, around 50 plus slots to go back to BA
However they were slots which belonged to B-med/BA so no add loss to BD
Yes, some routes may have to be reduced when these go back to BA but at mo it does not look like BA want them as we have not had any real cutbacks in regards to the LHR op
With regards to whether bmi can make money on these markets when b-med could not, take away the gbp15 mill plus franchise and handling cost that b-med paid to BA and profits are not as difficult to come by
The announcemount today was about some reduction in capacity ex LBA MME and JER, they will now become erj bases and as such there will be a small number of redundancies:sad:

Another announcement is that there are to be redundancies in ground staff managerial positions at Glasgow base. Cost cutting here, anywhere else?

oh yes...... bhd and lhr !!!!

Yeah, Bmi Ground Staff Still In Shock In Bhd!! Twelve Supervisory And Duty Management Staff To Apply For 4 Newely Created 'customer Service Delivery Managers'. I Fear The Most Loyal Staff Who Have 100 Years Service Between Them With British Midland/bmi Will Find It Hard To Compete With Their Affected Collegues For The Above Positions!

So whats the news about Bmi at BHD? I didnt hear anything about that? Are there flights being cut or aircraft sizes reduced?

BUD

Flight Schedules Not Affected, Apprarently Too Profitable Base To Reduce Timetable. Airbus A319/a320 To Operate Rotations. Redunances Result Of Restructuring On Base Middle Management Across The Network.

I am very sorry to receive this info as there are alot good people who have worked for a long time, i wouldnt like to be the one who makes the choice


Its called trimming the fat before the sell off!!!!

as I said bud watch this space ya you zeee

regards

Keepitlit

Apparently DLH to announce take over of bmi today :eek:

Or would that be DHL? or BA? Or VS? Or SQ?
There's so many stories doing the rounds I'm loosing track:ok:

Where's your info from Point 5? We've heard nothing at BMA.
tHE cONNIE

As always in hard times companies use the moment to gain further ground on their long term plans that may have met with resistance in better times.

It seems much more likely that bmi are using this time to downsize areas of manpower that would be 'doubled' with a merging/buying company whilst reducing costs now.

Just keeping the lights on til a buyer comes along.

6

Sorry to see XL go under and my sympathies to all who worked for them or were travelling with them. I wish them all well.

It would appear that XL had 4 x A330s on order.

I wonder whether BMI have given consideration to them. Unlike the previous A330s that BMI were supposed to have been getting, perhaps if they got in earlier enough they could tailor the order with Airbus to reflect the requirements to fit in with their current 330 fleet?

Not only that, I would have thought a good price could be achieved from the administrators/lessors given that the administrator/lessors need to generate some cashflow on these airframes. With BMI currently overcrewed and yet wetleasing rotations to Astraeus, this could be quite lucrative expansion to the midhaul/longhaul route network and the markets that have been rumoured for quite some time, especially as far as freight is concerned.

Food for thought.....

I cant see bmi buying new planes or used airframes at the moment. Not with the current news that has been told to bmi staff.

bmi has to weather the storm or wait for SMB to sell it to cash rich buyer. Which seems to be LH at the moment. Or he may not sell and take his train set down a very rock road. In which lots of money and business traffic and new cash streams seem to be key.

Lets say this, if SAS sell's out to LH.
Then will LH take on the 20% share in bmi.

Time will tell.