CARDIFF - 4
 

Continuation of: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...251111&page=20

Not really sure what they could have done to stop one of the operators tweaking routes...

The relationship between airports and airlines is a straight, consumer/supplier one. If an airline decides to fly to say Madrid from Cardiff, the airport will be happy. If they decide to stop that route the airport will be unhappy. Can the airport tell an airline where to fly? No, in the same way that my local car dealer can't tell me where to drive. They have wishlists, they have deals they can cut, but at the end of the day, if the airline decides not to go somewhere, or wants a deal that the airport can't stomach (eg RYR) then the airport has no choice but to say "route closed".

I'm sure the airport would love Rome or Lisbon, but at the end of the day, it needs an airline to propose it before the airport can talk numbers....

All the airport can do really is to impose nasty charges on someone to stop them coming....

Re Baby - nice to see that they are filling the timetable up a tad... but if all that stuff of Mathers' comes true, they will be a tad stretched based on my analysis a few pages back...

TA

Just been looking at the schedule on the BmiBaby website, and it looks like they will get rid of the over an hours downtime on the a/c in the afternoon, and then the last a/c will actually arrive earlier than in S06.

But there maybe a change in the schedule as it looks to me like some of the times are overlapping.

*******************************************************

I agree what your saying about the airlines but couldn't one way to solve this wish list is to approach an airline and say will you operate this route for us (maybe the airline operates it from another airport) and this is the deal we can give you. Also to approach the WAG and say we wan't to operate this route, what funding can you give to us.

We allready know that the WAG will throw money away hence the Cardiff Valley route that will be heavily subsidised.

*******************************************************

I was reading a post couple of days back which said that the WAG won't have enough money to build the M4 - St Athan + Cardiff Airport Road. Is this true and where could i see the article.

*******************************************************

With the consultative meeting the end of January at the airport, did anyone attend or has anyone heard of some information thats come from this? Apparently there were going to be representatives for Arriva there about possibility of adding extra trains on the route.

Cheers

Mathers :ok:

Here is the link- http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/south...name_page.html

The WAG cant raise the private funding for the project apparently. :rolleyes: Well at least all will still be able too have a nce roundabout tour:rolleyes:.

But apparently they arent going too trunk Culverhouse Cross, so what exactly are they going too do:confused:

Smie!!!

Probably talk,and then talk some more,and then talk abit more and .........:ugh:

Thanks Piper,

I don't like the mention of having a toll from the M4 to the airport either, couldn't start to imagine how much it would cost me to travle through it every day.

Mind it would be nice to see the plans for the matrix as there was also a statement saying that they deliver on what they had promised. I'm sure with the Money generated from this project there would be money available for the improvment or the roads to the airport.

Looks like another dissapointment for Cardiff Airport, seems they rather be throwing money away on building dual carriagways from Abergavenny to Hirwaun and bypasses in porth in the Rhondda. And also on this Valley to Cardiff route wich i don't think will last.

What WAG are saying is that it is not an attractive proposition for a private developer to build and toll the road, as is proposed for the new M4 south of Newport.

What could be done though is a PFI initiative like the PDR in Newport where a developer funds and maintains the road and the governement pay them an annual charge for a set number of years.

However I wouldn't pay too much attention to Rhodri Morgan as he's already got one foot in the retirement home, he won't be around for long after May's elections!

MB

Hi-

I thought that they were going to improve 5mile lane and hopefully link it in with the M4. I don't see how they can do this without destroying large tracks of extremely beautiful and unspoilt Vale of Glam, though, which noone seems to have mentioned.

No suprise re: the decision about not trunking the A48 through St Nicholas- I bet there are so many MPs living there that the internal phones were buzzing in the WAG ;-). Probably, this is good idea in the long term though, as it avoids pumping more traffic through Culverhouse Cross interchange.

They have to do SOMETHING with the Vale roads, however, because there is no way that they will cope with the new St Athan thing.

I still don't understand why all this is such a big deal though, because CWL still isn't the furthest away from its named town, nor does it have the worst accessibility. Many airports would give their eye teeth to have a rail link, even one as luke warm as Cardiff's.

CWL never seems to attract the confidence or agressive marketing to make current services stick + encourage other airlines. Having said that, the T-fly expansion is good, though the routes are still not as varied as from other airports. I suppose it's all a matter of the right operater turning up at the right time though- or maybe CWL is laid back and that is one of its charms in comparison with others!

Daniel

Well we got Rhodri Morgan for at least another two years depending on whether or no he will get re-elected in May.

By the sounds of this news report they claim that the majority of the roads will be able to cope with the increase of traffic, most probs Rhodri Morgan got so excited saying we'll have this, that and the other before he had a think and reality kicked in.

I think that the 5 mile lane is ok as it is, except needs a little widening, it's between J34 and the 5 mile lane is the problem where it's single file traffic with passes. Looks like the Miskin Parkway will be on the backburner too as that relied on links from J34.

Valley
 

Reports in the press this morning that WAG are about to anounce the contract for the PSO Ynys Mon (Valley) route.

MB

"Rumors are that Highland Airways of Scotland will operate the route.
Looks like the route could be operated by a J31"

Edit: ROUTE NOW CONFIRMED

Will be operated by Highland Airways of Inverness, 2x daily using a 36 passenger aircraft.

More information on BBC Wales website.

Regards,
Chris

What base
 

Is it Cardiff based?or up North. Thanks

The really important point from baby's news is that they are retiming the BFS to make it more business-friendly.... looks like they are preparing to duff up flybe!

Good to see them fighting their pitch.

If flybe fancy a scrap then they might take baby on with Glasgow which is down to a business unfriendly 1x daily.

EZY must be p:mad: ing themselves, they've already picked up the Newcastle passengers without deep pockets and now they can cream off GLA too!

MB

North-South Air link
 

Yet more subsidies! Yet more public money going into new CWL route development. I thought the aviation industry had moved away from this anti competitive rubbish. Government subsidies to state airlines in Europe have been stamped out. How can this be justified by the Welsh Assembly?

Airlines run on a demand/supply basis. If the demand/potential for a route exists, it will be served by some airline or other. If not, tough. CWL will just have to be content with being a small regional airport catering mainly for charter traffic. Too many people on this thread seem to think the responsibility lies with airport management to "attract" new routes. Only Twin Aisle seems to have any concept of how the airline industry works.

The truth is that it should depend on one thing only; the ability of the demographic of the catchment area to sustain a route.

The route is purely political and I doubt many other than the AMs will use it, a gross waste of public money.
After 3 years and the loss of the subsidies i wonder how long it will last.

Just on the news-

'The maximum fare will be £100, for the 30 minute journey on the 2xdaily service, on the 36 seater aircraft. The WAG has spent already over £1.5 million pounds (Usual waffle from Andrew Davies)'

PAX saying at Cardiff train station 'Wed love too go' (:rolleyes:WAG staff)

So 3 years worth of subsidies to Highland air, then no service, I think so.

Then more waffle from the WAG. So does anyone know how much this will eventually cost? When this service will start? Where the aircraft will be based?

Then, at the end of that piece, someone wanted a £120,000,000 rail service comparing this cheap to air travel:oh: I wouldnt think it was that much.

:)

"Wed love too go" ???

This is an air service devised pure and simple for the AMs of the WAG and the multitude of civil servants generated by the Welsh Assembly.

Highland AW are going to be subsidised by the Weslh taxpayer, and the vast majority of the revenue from this service will be paid by the tax payer.

RAF Valley is hardly central to North Wales, which will dilute the usefulness of the route for other prospective users.

There is as has already been pointed out, the question around the validity of investing money in a venture like this, when the same investment could be put into developing public transport links that would be of far more benefit to the people of both North and South Wales, plus many other parts too.

And for 'I'd like to goo' what were they plyed on coffee or a cup of Tea???

Is BmiBaby actually developing from CWL?

It is all very well advertising to say they have got increased flights for faro, Jersey and Palma. Also boasting about the Belfast being moved to a more business friendly slot. But they fail to announce that this is due to a sacrifice on the Glasgow and Prague Routes.

As everyone is aware on here allready that Glasgow has been reduced to a non-business friendly once daily service but is there a reason why theres no flights available to purchase for prague after the 24th of May. Is this because their sacrificing the prague route which was very sucessful for the Murcia?

The murcia route is in the check-in system allready but the prague route has gone.

*******************************************************
North-South Route

Just looked at the North-South route news report in the BBC news website. I noticed that the BBC have been reporting that it will be on a 36 seater a/c but the Highland Airways website is saying it will be on a 19 seater a/c.

Never thought we'd get a smaller a/c than the Eastern.

******************************************************
Aviance Handling

Heard today that Aviance is to continue it's operations on the RAMP for S07, im not sure if this is confirmed yet, but what will Thomson think of that if it is true, they wanted Servisair to be a Full Handle contract. Has Thomson decided yet on who they are offering the handling contract to? I'm guessing it is Servisair and they were just putting the frighteners on them.

*****************************************************
BmiBaby A/C Tech at CWL

Three days this week and 3 BmiBaby a/c gone tech.
Monday - GODSK (5 hours tech delay)
Tuesday - GTOYA (2hrs 30 mins Tech Delay)
Wednesday - GOGBE (Returned to stand, caused 45 mins Tech Delay operating the 2001. A/C then went and problem got fixed after returning from EDI. Funny thing is GOGBE got sent to us instead of GODSK.

Nice to see a consistency in poor reliability in the fleet at the moment.

:ok:

Valley
 

Flower has hit the nail on the head - this is a politically motivated route with short odds on surviving after the three year PSO support runs out.

However the £1.5m already spent is on developing the civilian facilities at Valley which is much more likely to turn out to be money well spent if it translates into attracting commercially viable routes - London (probably Stanstead) and Dublin are pretty good contenders.

I for one have no problem with public money being used on infrastructure projects that have an economic benefit ( I'd certainly like to see a bit splashed around SWales on road and public transport improvements) - we all certainly pay more than enough tax on transport.

What I do object to is the distortion of the market through public subsidy artificially favouring uneconomic activites to the detriment of those trying to run a good business.

MB

That's an interesting point. I don't know the area well (having only seen the view from the A55) - do you think there's actually a large enough catchment around Valley (especially business travellers willing to pay more for the time saving versus road/rail/HSS) to justify further scheduled air services?

Hate to jump on a bandwagon, and sound like another naysayer - but nay...

Subsidising airlinks gives bad routes. Flower et al are spot on - this route will be pulled the day after the subsidy is pulled.

Re the aircraft - it looks like a 19 seater each way, twice a day. That is, 38 seats each way. BBC again.... ;)

North - South Route
 

Highland Airways have not made any decision on where to base the a/c, and has not yet made any decision on who will be the handling agents.

The airlines comercial team will be visiting Wales next week to look into theese matters.

But 'Brian Mackenzie' of Highland Airways has confirmed that it will be a
J31 - 19 SEATER A/C

Possibility on Routes

Aer Arann Cardiff - Valley - Dublin
Eastern Cardiff - Valley - Newcastle

Or would Highland Airways try and operate routes such as Manchester - Newcastle - Aberdeen - Birmingham - Liverpool themselves so the a/c will be active throughout the day rather than having it sitting on the ground most of the day?

:ok:

Would the money being spent on this White Elephant have been better spent on improving the road infrastructure around the Airport and St Athan ?
Only last week Rhodri Morgan claimed that there was no money in the pot. Surely money spent that would improve the situation for many is a much better use of public money.

Apparently the true amount of this scheme will be announced within 2 weeks when the deal is finalised. Then we can see exactly how much has been wasted. I'm sure it would take much more money than what is being spent on this scheme to update the road systems around Cardiff Airport and St Athan including the link from J34 of the M4.

The £1.6m spent on the passenger terminal in Valley i believe is a good move as it has been agreed by Anglesey councillors in June 2006 for plans of up to 10 flights per day but i'm sure it could increase if the demand was there. This could benefit North Wales especially Anglesey with the Nuclear Power Station being closed within the next 3 years.

I agree that the route will cease to exist after the 3 years of subsidies by the WAG, but there is the slimest of chances that we might be wrong, and will just have to see how it goes. Highland Airways may have plans to expand from either Cardiff or Valley. 3 Years is a long time in the Airline Industry and as seen before anything can happen within this time even the unexpected.

:ok:

10 flights a day from Anglesey, yeah right.
Liverpool airport serves North Wales, even those living in North Wales last night said only those living West of Bangor would actually benefit.
Utter waste of public money, if demand was there then a commercial operation would have long ago been set up.

I remember, many moons ago, being at a press conference when all this was being dreamed up...

Some politician suggested that it would a be a wonderful thing if the good people of Cardiff could fly to Valley, much the best way for them to catch the ferry from Holyhead.....

.... the ferry from Holyhead that goes to Dublin, in about ten times the total time that it took the Air Wales ATR to do the trick direct from Cardiff to Dublin.

And we VOTE for these people??

TA

I dont know if youve already this but herres the cofirmation and the criticism,

http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/0100n...name_page.html

This route could work as a split, possibly Valley-CWL-LGW/LCY?
But we all know this isnt going to happen, unless the MP frequent flyers spend alot of time in London.
CWL-LGW would be a great route - Maybe ASW will get in on this.
Taken from the article
Was Atlantics JER route subsidised?
I really cant see this route working, so much time and effort which could have been better spent elsewhere!
This was a nationwide contract, nothing to do with Cardiff and nothing to do with Aviance ramp.
I belive the MyTravel contract has just been renewed too. So the handling of MYT/TCX could also go either way.
As for the ramp, nothing has been confirmed yet.
Hope everyone is geared up for a busy rugby/football weekend with sunday just about full to capacity! :ok:

PSO
 

Forget LON to any airport it will never be subsdised and commercially it will never work from CWL by air you can not compete with the train. Highland have a J31 based at warton doing a Bae shuttle they will look at tying this airframe into the schedule.

Ref the JER route it was not subsidised and operated from STN in competion with both BA and Flybe

Quote:
This was a nationwide contract, nothing to do with Cardiff and nothing to do with Aviance ramp.
I belive the MyTravel contract has just been renewed too. So the handling of MYT/TCX could also go either way.
As for the ramp, nothing has been confirmed yet.
Hope everyone is geared up for a busy rugby/football weekend with sunday just about full to capacity! :ok:

As for this year MYT im guessing everything will remain the same. But TCX will have 52% of the new company Thomas Cook Plc. With TCX using Aviance as their handling agents at CWL could we see the contract changing over in S08?

So has the Thomson contract been announced as of yet?

Caaardiff what extra flights we got this weekend then? It's gunna be busy with french rugby flights if any coming back sunday as well. Have you got any specific details on these?

Nice to see that the airports website is up to date again. Still no mention on there about the North-South link.

:ok:

The only advertising this route needs in an internal memo in the Welsh assembly! :ugh:
http://www.servisair.com/Central.asp...215&NewsID=177
I can see MYT/TCX changes in W07 at CWL. As MYT dont currently base during Winter at BRS or CWL, yet TCX do, but TCX dont base BRS during summer i believe?
Maybe a more solid network of their own would be built up as FCA have reduced or are no longer selling TCX products (in favour of their own product and increasing other Tour ops such as Cosmos).
TOM however seem to be using FCA for alot of flights in BRS too.
As for this weekend, i know servisair have the following
Rugby flights with FlightLine and Blue Line are in all weekend, commencing today i believe.
Football flights include MON (A300) Titan (752 & 146) European (732), Aero Nova (SWM) and numerous private charters between servisair and signature.
Taxiway Golf is to be used as a parking area due to full capacity

It will be a fun weekend then bloody typical i got 2 days of and then two 12 hour shifts on Saturday and Sunday, i'm not sure what flights Aviance have got.

To be honest it would have been an extremely big blow for Servisair if they lost the Thomson contract. Thats got to be their bread and butter.

I'f im correct i don't think that TCX had any a/c at all last year from CWL. It was just MYT in the summer.

Maybe they will have an all year stratergy from CWL starting in W07.

I think they will bully FCA wherever they can and i think at CWL they could do this effectivly. In S07 it is showing that FCA will be operating ACE on a thursday in addition to the TFS on friday the same as this year.

Is FUA currently operating ACE (on thursday) on behalf of FCA? or will this be an additional flight in S07?

Cheers

:ok:

Right so baby pulled Prague for the Murcia route!? Well done, looks like CWL is going somewhere for once, yeh right! Why does any new route at this airport have to be at an expense of an existing route?! And why does our great major carrier in bmibaby show absolutely no attention to one of their core bases. Yes we all know that their priorities lie at BHX but by dropping prague silently and making such a fanfare about murcia just makes me so annoyed with them. And as is regularly pointed out, the downgrading of GLA to 1 a day will mean very few people use this major route- prices as a result are up so much ezy is no longer an option!

Also there are rumours that EDI and GLA are to become bmibaby bases this winter! Now where does the argument go that CWL is at the centre of their strategy, what a joke bmibaby and the management are worse - if they can't manage to attract a core carrier then what chance will they ever have? 8m pax in 2030 my foot.

Well their schedule says that it is going to stay 4xWeekly throughought the summer

The flights to Murcia are on mostly different days and at different times, so PRG isnt going for Murcia.

And about the bases in Scotland, well they are growing there from the Midlands, well Birmingham, but shrinking from CWL. Though two bases opeining at once doesnt sound very baby style. Maybe a few months indesicion about a few aircraft. The finally decide too put the planes in BHX. Like their typical plans.

If bmi baby ever do drop PRG all they would probably do is allow TOM to expand. Im sure they would start the route should they ever have the chance. Currently they fly there from Luton, Bournemouth and Doncaster

Well with all the increases in frequencies, and the new route to BCN. TOMs three aircraft(1 737-300, 1 757-200 and the part time 767) are running upto capacity, and have no room for new routes. Especially Prauge, which is a two hour flight away.

So the only option for then to serve PRG is too base another aircraft, they are though not expanding in fleet size, so the aircraft will have too come from an exisitng base. There a rumours of TOM closing BRS base and getting thair 757 to CWL, though this IMHO is not the best aircraft to do PRG, and with flight on sale for S08 unlikley.

As my previous post states WW are still goping too serve PRG, and with the same frequencey as this year 4XDay. So are they cutting the flights?

:)

Smile!!!

A bit of tardy website updating from bmiBaby I think.

You can't book PRG past around 24/5.

No gaps to operate the PRGs I'm afraid, if you look at the schedules in detail

Sorry I only checked the schedule for Prauge, and they dont operate at the same time as Murcia (Which isnt up on the schedule yet, just on the booking system) So sorry if I have confused and they are really cutting Prauge. Every other base is available to Prauge except CWL, so it may be such bad news.

This is a sorry state that baby are leaving us in. A major city down too just one daily, while anothher with almost equal daily traffic, as 2 daily with two different carriers. BTW does anyone know how BE are doing on the sales of that route?
Another very popular route, a faviroute of the LO-COs Prauge isnt going to be a route from CWL in 2007. TOM doesnt have anything lest to serve the route, as their schedules are full, and no real carrier able too jump in on the route. This means another route lost for CWL for 'exiting' Murcia. Lets all hope for some good news.