virginblue

As far as checking ticket prices is concerned. Club loads from LCY to FRA are very healthy indeed. Which presumably is why it normally costs more to fly to FRA in BA club from LCY, than it does from LHR! :rolleyes:

Your other points are extremely well founded however!

Liverpool on VLM is down to twice daily now at LCY, it also no longer has its own aircraft but uses an Antwerp-based aircraft which operates "wrong way round" from London City, ie northbound first, then back southbound, which gives an first arrival in London at 1000. Apparently the route has been hit by improvements in reliability on the railway, but to a much greater extent than Manchester.

How many Fokker 50 do VLM base at LCY? Do you think when the A318 can park at LCY BA Cityflyer will buy some?

Regards
James

VLM bases no aircraft at LCY at all. They are all inbound first thing in the morning.

Generally speaking, LCY is an inbound-market. Until recently, there were only two nightstoppers at the airport for early morning departures to EDI and ORY.

In addition to the fact that LCY is an inbound-market, the time difference also allows for a reasonably early first departure from LCY to the continent without night-stopping aircraft. Despite overnighting elsewhere, quite a few flights leave for the continent 0800ish

VLM's overall schedules require 18 aircraft, all of which come through London City at some time during the day, plus they do a lot of ACMI charters round Europe. None of their aircraft overnight at London City, and VLM have never done so.

Two BA RJ100, two Swiss RJ100, one Cityjet RJ100 and one Scot Do328 are the overnighters this summer. The Scot acts as a spare aircraft until 1700 (I can see the morning Edinburgh return flight that Cityjet operate for Scot reverting to this aircraft fairly soon).

An early departure is 0730 Cityjet to Dublin (hooray ! at last) and this is operated with an aircraft which starts at Paris at 0700 and is into LCY at 0700. It is interesting to speculate what would change if the UK and Continental time were the same.

Bit of a critical mass of early morning departures building up then at LCY. Probably what it needs to make them work and get people thinking of flying out of there early.

Well we have had a week or two now with what must be the highest movement rate the airport has had.

If I were to say that the go-around rate I have noticed seems to have risen notably, would there be disagreement ?

How has the situation at security and in the departure lounge at peak times been?

I think I would disagree.

Well, I only saw one all morning when on Thames - and the Lufty had no airbrakes and went around at 4nm eventually to LHR. Didn't see any yesterday morning(apart from the Eastflight who was trg and doing go-arounds x10!)

It is something that can be expected when you are operating at higher capacities, as controllers and pilots push harder to increase the movement rate. A go-around is a neccesary evil and acceptable risk when working balls out with a single runway. Esp on runway 10 of course when all it takes is a slow 180/backtrack.

I arrived at 0650L this morning, and inbound no 6 was already in the sequence. I don't remember there being a gap on ins/outs until 1000Lish.

How has the situation at security and in the departure lounge at peak times been?

not too bad when i flew to MUC on wednesday. I checked in with 20 minutes to go, got through security. Had time to buy something in the duty free shop and then got on the bus to the plane. All fairly smooth. Landed back that evening dead on time and was home shortly after!

From colleagues who operate into LCY, I have indeed heard of a number of recent go arounds. Many reasons quoted, not all connected with capacity! :rolleyes:

4468,
So what are the reasons for the increase in go arounds?

Alan M's dodgy spacing is the normal reason for 99.9999% of all go arounds in the known universe:p

Will be interesting to see if BA will add any other routes from LCY that could affect LGW !

Well Prague and Vienna have been mentioned as possible destinations.

Hey Nonny Nonny.....

They don't call you "extra mile on spacing please" for nothing do they?!?!?! :)

You should take a leaf out of the Flemish contingents book!

The fact that we give you less than you ask for proves a point that you ask for too much! :)

With approx 400 handling and 400 non handling arrivals into LCY, with only 2 GA's due traffic and 2 due wx. I can only compliment all the ATC's involved.
As pilots we are all supposed to expect a GA each time, at other airports it is easy forget that! It is an amazing place and I am sure I will miss it when I move on next week.

Went on the new service to Belfast City on Tuesday, an interesting flight, starting at the LCY terminal.

Here we are at the front door. In pole position on the bus stop are parked two unattended police cars. They are just standing idle, not involved in attending an incident. Now I can quite imagine the police’s reaction if I left my car there, why should they get away with it ?

What airline am I on ? The ticket says “Air France”, but then “Operated by CityJet”. It is in fact operated by Scot Airways. And once on board the skipper follows his script and welcomes us to “Air France in association with KLM”. For goodness sake how many airlines does it take to provide a service ? It’s not an idle point, because whose AOC am I on, whose insurance am I on, and which regulatory authority is responsible ? French, Irish or UK ?

Here comes check-in. Air France refuse to check you in at the desk (which is titled CityJet), which is nothing more than a Fast Bag Drop (which we all know is a Slow Bag Drop) and you must go to the centre of the concourse and use the check-in machine (which is titled Air France). Now I have used this confounded Air France machine many times before. I call it “The bo11ocks machine”. The software, being French, is about as counter-intuitive as you can get (in contrast to the BA and BMI ones which are well done), with all the French quirks like icons called “Validate”. It is so illogical it requires a full-time attendant to intervene as you go through. There are longwinded security questions you really have to study to understand if the answer is Yes or No. Now our company designs software for a living, but if any of the team put something together as illogical as this they would be out on their ear.

Once in possession of a boarding card, back to Slow Bag Drop where exactly the same security questions are asked all over again. Whatever for ? And then I am told the belt is out of order and I must take my bag to the window at the end. So what do they achieve in this step ? Precisely nothing.

Incidentally, it would help CityJet’s cause if they could handle UK domestic passengers with staff who were capable of speaking English. It seems to be the Air France training school for bored Parisiennes.

Upstairs to security, the usual LCY efficiency. Good. It is only marred by two scowling cops (possibly the ones who left their police cars on the bus stop) with fingers tapping itchily on their machine guns. It certainly inspires confidence as an air traveller to see I can be double-machine gunned in an instant.

Down to the gate, number 10 (alias the Portakabin). Here we find there are nine pax on the flight (and there were eight on the return). Seemingly an improvement on opening day. To handle these nine pax takes four Air France gate staff, though as you would imagine one does all the work and the other three stand idly with open mouths.

Out to the aircraft, up and away reasonably to time (Mrs WHBM :) has come down to the other side of the dock to wave). The steward was a professional and decent chap trying his best to make sense of the extraordinary Air France bar stock he was provided with. Poor chap. Gin & Tonic ? Well, I could have a tonic but Air France do not do gin. They do however do whisky. With lemonade ? No. With ginger ale then ? No. But there’s Coca-Cola. Good. Rum and Coke please. They do not do Rum. Actually I have to apologise to the poor chap if he is reading this because my wisecracks as this all unfurled were making him want to laugh, but he was trying to maintain a professional standard of service. What a nonsense.

Oh, and pathetic little bags of French savouries. But more sad was that hidden in the overheads above seats 9DF (I noticed it on boarding) was a great basket of Scot’s shortbreads and tablet, staples of the Edinburgh run but which Air France doubtless prohibit them from offering on the Belfast route.

But the greatest stupidity came at the Belfast end. We parked on the stand furthest from the terminal, were bussed in, and waited for our bags. And waited. We were the only seven pax left in the terminal, last arrival of the day. Eventually it transpired that the crew had locked up the aircraft and left, but the bags were still on board. Now you never quite know what the situation really is. Did the crew hotfoot it too soon to get to their hotel and the end of the football ? Did the ground handlers not go out in time, for the same reason. But we waited 40 minutes for the seven bags to turn up.

While waiting and waiting in arrivals I find the only publicity for the service I have seen. A messy little stack of leaflets describing the service has been left on a table. I have the time to tidy them up.

Oh Merlyn, you have got into bed with the French but you must be writhing at what is happening under the Scot name.

I note that the mid-day DUS flight is dis-continued after Jun 22. It does not seem to be the usual summer break as the LH schedule shows no resumption in Aug/Sep. Anyone in the know ?

Hi all is this true that LCY is closed from Saturday lunchtime until Sunday afternoon?

Regards
JAmes

Yes it is shut then. Which means no lates for us on Saturdays or earlies on Sundays!

VLM's 146 ops
 

Does anyone have any feedback on the 146-300 that VLM has been operating? It's certainly raised a few eyebrows but as I understand it this is only an evaluation? Any chance we'll see anymore of the type going to VLM?

Rgds

GT

With most of the aiports passengers being business pax & Sat afternoon/Sun morning isn't normally the time these people travel. I understand it was agreed that LCY would close 'to give the neighbours some peace & quiet on a weekend' & I understand this is one of the reasons no helicopters are allowed in.

The airport does "open" one Saturday afternoon a year & this is for the annual LCY Funday which I believe is the only time single engine aircraft are permitted to use London City Airport (I know they've had a Spitfire in during this event before) but all aircraft are invited & I think LCY ATC iS downgraded.

On the subject of single engine aircraft using LCY, does the ban come from the CAA or is it something the airport decided?

FC

The 146 only seems to take a decent load on it's first and last flights of the day. I can't speak for every flight but it has departed with as few as 19 pax on board.
It gets to RTM in only 10 mins less than the F50 but uses 3 times as much fuel to do so. I can't see it lasting and I think VLM would be better off with something like a Dash 8 Q400.

True of most VLM routes
It does of course carry twice as many pax if full. And in fact with the weight restrictions that affect F50 ops at LCY it could be carrying 3 times as many ! And maybe their bags don't have to be offloaded/left behind either.
Of course the same applies to BA, Cityjet, Swiss, et al, all of whom are quite happy with their 146 ops. Fuel cost isn't everything.

True of most VLM routes

Not neccesarily, some of the late morning/early afternoon flights are often busy.

It does of course carry twice as many pax if full. And in fact with the weight restrictions that affect F50 ops at LCY it could be carrying 3 times as many ! And maybe their bags don't have to be offloaded/left behind either.

If full, but it is rare that it does go full. The weight restrictions limit us to around 44 on most occasions but the 146 only has 92 seats.
Having spoken to my colleagues, none of us have ever offloaded bags due to weight restrictions.

Fuel cost isn't everything.

It is when there are ony 19 pax on the flight.

The two Avro RJ85s that Swiss has off-loaded to Malmoe Aviation apparently will end up with subsidiary Transwede for LCY operations on behalf of SAS. With three routes being served by SAS (CPH, ARN, OSL), it means we will see some replacement of RJ70 / Q400 services (and a slight increase in capacity on the Scandinavian routes). I would expect to see the RJ85 on CPH and ARN, making the RJ70 available for OSL, but I have not checked.

So many BAE 146/RJ'S now serve LCY I wonder if there will be more visiting than the good old Fokker 50's on a daily basis....

Why is there a pas limit on the F50, is it simply underpowered or just due to the obstacle clearance at city?

73 BAe146/RJ arrivals compared to 52 F50, so already well ahead. Only 33 "others" for a total of 158 schedules.

Combination of the two.

The airport does "open" one Saturday afternoon a year & this is for the annual LCY Funday which I believe is the only time single engine aircraft are permitted to use London City Airport (I know they've had a Spitfire in during this event before) but all aircraft are invited & I think LCY ATC iS downgraded.


7th July I believe this year. A great event. Well worth a visit. Free to get in but they do expect you to spend some money which all goes to the local childrens hospice 'Richard House' which looks after terminally ill children. The flying display is awesome but it's a great community event. I will be trying to get there for about the 10th time in a row!

ATC is downgraded to A/G only on Funday (I think I asked a while ago WHY it was downgraded). So there are several calls to "City Tower" who have to be corrected to "City Radio".

TG, I think it's about 10 for me as well.

Records?
 

Came back through LCY on Friday and it was teaming with passengers - and this was mid afternoon! Recon it must have been a good day for them passenger wise. Guess some of the routes like Nice & Rome are good holiday break cities.

LCY is starting to creak at busy times. Delays for start, delays for Taxi, delays for departure.
Hats off to ATC, they have arrivals and departures down to a fine art, don`t think they could squeeze anything else in.:ok:

'LCY is starting to creak at busy times. Delays for start, delays for Taxi, delays for departure.
Hats off to ATC, they have arrivals and departures down to a fine art, don`t think they could squeeze anything else in.'

Still a damn site better than LHR!!! (In my humble view and experience)

Rumours that VLM and Darwin have made it known that the LPL / BRN-LUG routes will go. Any confirmation ?

Confirmations:

• VLM
• Darwin

I note that Berlin has been added to the cities in the route survey section of LCY's website. If it happens, it would be the 4th try after Conti-Flug, Eurowings and Augsburg Airways. Maybe Cityjet or British Airways this time? Exeter has been dropped from the list, surveyed at the moment are HEL, VIE, BCN and BER.

Lufthansa will replace Cirrus Airlines and its DHC8-100 on the HAM route with effect winter schedule with a Contactair ATR42-500. That means Contactair ATRs on the routes to DUS, HAM, NUE and STR.

One for the ATC folk maybe :

When arriving on 10 from the north, for years we would come over LAM, then round to downwind overhead Stratford and left base onto 10. Pretty much a reciprocal of a 28 departure.

In recent times a new route seems to apply, over LAM, down to Dartford, downwind over SE London and right base overhead Westminster.

Probably adding 5 or maybe 10 minutes to arrival time. Any reason for the change ? Wasn't one of the reasons behind the enlarged CTA was to allow the old route to continue ? Is it done this way to allow flights to be held at Alkin, even though this may not actually be required ?