Express Flight

Yes they are!

Norwich
 

I haven't used it for a few years and avoid it as a GA stop but had to route through there the other day en-route to the Far East.Living on the Norfolk Suffolk border it is cheaper and more convenient for me to use Stansted.

However I thought I'd try Norwich.

What an excuse for an airport! I've been in better train stations in the regions.

The drop off is in a small car park with no facilities about the size of a decent lay-by. There is not even a bus shelter. You make your way through a hole in the hedge and through some big plastic bollards to a large shed which resembles a cheap supermarket.

A paper shop and a small coffee outlet plus a smattering of cheap tables and chairs sums it up.And no wi-fi...:ugh:

A 'development tax' of £5.00 per passenger is levied for this third world facility .

I see that passengers numbers have taken a dive....I wonder why.

Take a tip from me...avoid the place.

Norwich Airport
 

You are quite right. Omniport are running the place into the ground. They couldn't arrange a :mad: in a brewery! I can see the place becoming like SEN. All maintenance, paint with next to no schedules.

The fact that this is the only NWI thread and has only two posts on it would suggest there is jack all going on there ;)

I flew from NWI regularly in 2007 and found it fine - quick and easy check in, the cafe was over priced (like all UK airports) but OK, no queues at security and plenty of seating. Don´t do wi-fi but but find it funny Norwich city centre has wi fi access throughout (free?) for all but the airport doesn´t.......anyway its a bit harsh to call it a third world airport and to avoid it! I can think of many far worse airports I have flown through including a number in South East Asia

The lack of reaction says it all.

I used to fly in there on a regular basis in my aircraft years ago and going back several years it was a great destination.
Then they added the 'International' tag and sold out.
Light aircraft/helicopter visitors have gone through the floor.

They have also given the place a cheap tacky image similar to a Yarmouth arcade complete with the two bouncers I met departing who nearly stripped the
KLM captain to his vest and pants in front of me.

A good site for Gavin and Stacy but it is also the Turnip Taliban Spaceport:ugh:

Just asking a question here?

When LTE Operated The Spanish Routes, What Where The Loads Like?

and also Could we ever get Ryanair to Norwich? Move Them Up The Road from Stansted?

When Flybe did the Malaga run it was always full. I'm pretty sure LTE were having no problem filling up their flights to Spain. Real shame that you can't fly to Malaga from Norwich anymore, it was a very popular route.

...and if Maintenance moves to Manchester as rumoured what next then !

Ooh! Do elaborate Navpi, "the maintenance" being who?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

i think to call the airport a third world airport is a bit stupid :rolleyes:, i have seen alot worse airports than it, it certianly aint the best airport by any length, and we all know that the £5 airport levy :ugh: was the most stupid thing they probally will ever do, it saw a dramitic drop in passengers and routes and airlines and if one day they do get rid of it i could see routes and airlines come back again but then i think i might be dreaming on that one lol

but there are now more routes this summer to holiday destinations than last year which is good, it was fantastic to see that Tunisa was available, only for 6 weeks tho but i am booked to go on it one of those weeks:ok:

Flybe have bought back Guernsey, along with Jersey and Exeter for the summer

so it aint all doom and gloom lol

but if they do want to make the airport grow in passengers etc then for starters GET RID OF THE STUPID 5 LEVY ON PASSENGERS every time they use the airport :D

Norwich airport is nothing more than a waiting room for a flight. It makes no successful effort to be a recreation centre.
Where it scores is that the British keep raising their airport taxes and the Dutch keep lowering theirs. It is far cheaper to fly ([robably almost) anywahere in the world vis AMS than it is to pay to go down to LHR or LGW. STN, of course, hardly counting as an international aiport since its destinations are mainly European and Britain is part of that one big happy family.

As a former Norwich Airport Consultative Cttee member, I don.t quite understand what the vision is here. Either from PPruners or from what I can see from the airport management itself. Where is Norwich capable of going ... anyone know?

Fares from Norwich are not cheap in my experience: KLM have hugely increased their prices from NWI (no doubt taking full advantage of their monopoly). I've found it considerably cheaper over the last 6 months to go to LCY or LHR & use other carriers.

i think that it can only go more to charter flights and holiday packages tbh, and that seems what they are doing now, with a 30% increase in them this summer. Don't think that the airport has any chance of having more scheduled flights, the only ones that have worked seem to be Manchester, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Amsterdam.

NickB

you are probably right, added to which, don't be suprised to see a direct attack in the near future on a certain Stansted low cost carrier's beligerence towards anyone who is choosy about the way they are treated (ie. the over 50 brigade).

I am led to believe that this is a two, or even multi pronged mission by a combination of NWI management and competing airlines - i.e. more than one.

It would be great if it came off, because if it does, there's bugger all the beligerent bugger in Dublin could do about it...:E

Here's my two cents as a pilot about Norwich.

I did my second landaway to Naarch, and I was looking rather forward to it. I had known that the landing fees were going to be in the region of 30quid, but was prepared to pay it. On the way in, ATC were professional as one would expect. Things started to go a bit south on the ground. Went with my instructor to pay the fee after being shuttled across the apron, entered the airport ops room, and there was such a scene in front of me. No one bothered to attend to us for ages - you'd think that they'd want to get rid of us as quick as possible. Was hit by the minimum charge of 46quid. Now that I was not expecting. Turns out that it was on the last page of charges, well after the landing fee was written up. Lesson learnt! In hindsight, I should have uplifted fuel.

Inside, the airport was very regional. That's all I can say about it really. Didn't pay the passenger development fee as we were crew, and we probably wouldn't have done so if we had to.

Ah, security check. No exceptions for GA pilots it would seem. The lady at the checkpoint told us there'd be someone to let us out of the terminal on the other side, but upon emerging all x-rayed, there was not a single member of staff to be found. So back to the counter to find someone to let us pass. All in all, it was the ground side of things that let the airport down.

Also, I remember that the taxiway for GA aircraft was rather...poor.

My second, and last trip, was for my cross country qualifier. I had to use NWI as the X-wind at other locations were way out of limits. This time, I didn't bother to go landside. Just paid my fees, got the MET, used the loo, and got out.

Norwich Radar has always been very nice in my experience with them. I've used them whenever I'm in that area - it always seems to be the same lady working it! She'll even call up North Denes just to check it's clear of traffic when I ask if she can see anything on her scope! :)

In light of Coventry's fee reductions as the airlines leave it, I had hoped that Norwich would have done the same. But the last time I checked (August), the silly fees were still there and that put me off flying there for some instrument work.

What's sad is that when my instructor flew into Norwich for his x-country quali, it only cost him 7 pounds to land there... One can only hope that management wake up and make the place friendly and appealing to GA again.

"From November, Thomson will be operating Boeing 737-800s with 189 seats, flying direct from Norwich Airport to Tenerife and Alicante and to a new route, Sharm el Sheikh, in Egypt. The flights will operate every week for 26 weeks"

:ok:

"Holiday makers can now go to Tunisia in Summer or Winter from Norwich Airport thanks to Thomas Cook Airlines, who have extended their programme to 27 departures on Sundays, from 07 March 2010 to 17 April 2011.



Departure dates are as follows:

07 Mar – 16 May 2010

17 – 24 Oct 2010

07 – 21 Nov 2010

19 & 26 Dec 2010

27 Feb – 17 Apr 2011 "

good news at last :ok:

Norwich Airport decline
 

As the recession kicks in Norwich is hurting bad.

As a fixed and rotary wing pilot I have a smile on my face.

This was a great little airport until about 7 years ago when they decided they were in the big league. Loads of hassle if you flew in there with security etc which meant I took my aircraft and helicopter operations elsewhere. Landing a chopper a mile to the east at Sprowston Manor avoided all the stasi stuff plus an easy lunch.

I used the airport as a passenger as well. But the development fee plus parking problems and a negative attitude to consumers forced a rethink and living near Diss I decided that Stansted was a better bet.

I now observe the airport has problems. Traffic down 30% in a year and staff being axed.

I can only smile and say Norwich Airport is reaping what they sowed.

From the Eastern Daily Press

Jobs to be axed at Norwich International Airport

A string of senior managers at Norwich International Airport look set to lose their jobs as part of a shake-up, but the airport boss said difficult decisions were needed to steer it through tough economic times.

It is understood that nine managers and one director at the airport have been or will be made redundant in the weeks ahead.

Andrew Bell, who became the permanent chief executive at the airport in May after filling the role on a temporary basis since the sudden departure of former CEO Elliott Summers at the start of the year, said he could not give details of the numbers or roles of those facing redundancy.

But he said: “We are going through a process of restructuring which is going to involve making redundancies.

“Because of the nature of the process I cannot go into any further details at this point, but in common with pretty much every business at the moment, I have had to ask what can we do with the business?

“We need structural change and I have had to make difficult decisions. We are working the way through the process and we are consulting with those people.”

But he said passengers would not be affected by the changes and said: “One of the things I am determined to preserve is customer service.
“The importance of safety and operations goes without saying and if anything we hope to be able to make improvements.

“It’s clearly going to be very bad news for the people who are in this process, given the economic situation, but as I have always said, we need to set up this airport to be a business which can operate in the current environment.

“I am trying to safeguard the other 189 jobs at the airport, the 800 plus jobs elsewhere on the airfield and the thousands involved in the supply line.

“I am absolutely certain this will move us in the right direction and it is not a retrograde step.”

Rumours also circulated yesterday that airline BMI was pulling its flights to Aberdeen - on which oil rig workers rely - from Norwich.

But both Mr Bell and BMI dismissed that speculation. The BMI spokesman said: “We remain committed to Norwich International Airport, as always,”

The news of redundancies comes just weeks after the airport received a boost with new flights from Norwich to Sharm El Sheikh in Egyot.

The flights operated by Thomson Airways, were launched along with new winter sun direct services to Alicante and Tenerife, which will run until April next year.

But in recent years, the airport has suffered a series of blows, with services from the city axed or reduced, including direct flights to Paris by Flybe and to Barcelona and Palma by Spanish airline LTE.

Passenger numbers at the airport, which is 80pc owned by Omniport, with Norwich City Council and Norfolk County Council retaining the remaining interest, fell by 30pc to 404,000 last year as the recession took its toll.


Jobs to be axed at Norwich International Airport - News - Eastern Daily Press

Schadenfreude?

Security issues are nationwide, not just at Norwich!

The rest of your email smacks of ill informed rubbish.

All airports and much of their support infrastructure is reeling from a certain recession, no doubt Norwich is one of hundreds of airports around the world having to make painful decisions.

Small consolation but I had heard Flybe are evaluating the possibility of reinstating the link with BHD withdrawn a few years ago.

Spot on assessment Johnny C, got it in one mate!

I feel moved to offer my sympathies to those at Norwich who face the treat of redundancy in this ongoing aviation decline and hope the remainder of the workforce can be spared. I do fear that aviation will not recover to previous levels and that modest reductions in expectations will leave Norwich as a healthy "small" airport rather than a bankrupt hopefull.

I do not share the views of philspace.

bb

Yes, lots to smile about!.....:yuk:

Maintenance
 

Interested to know what maintenance bases are rumoured to be moving to MAN - only 2 come to mind at Norwich and one of those is not strictly "maintenance" as in EASA 145 etc. Fair to say that was it not for the paying tenants at the airport that the airport would probably cease to exist overnight. And not forgetting the offshore rotary wing flights that contribute a significant amount of business for the airport.

Interesting times ahead.

phil space!
what an arrogant,pumped up,self opinionated ********! Those people who may loose their jobs certainatley don't deserve your crass, gloating ,tasteless comments.Just because 7 years ago you had a little bit of hassel when flying you rich boy toy into the airport! If I see your chopper parked at the hotel when I play golf there Ill gladly get my driver out and **** it with a Dunlop 65DDH i you:mad:

no slots - well said!

Its never nice to see people lose their jobs, but I have to agree with those posters who said the aiport is now reaping what they sowed. They took a conscious decision to price out GA and training flights and lost a lot of business, something that could of been a bit of bread and butter for them. The cost conscious GA pilots all avoid the place now and there'd been a big drop in training flights. Other smaller regional airports with 'big airport syndrome' would do well to learn the lessons of how not to do it Norwich-style.

Yes but sadly they won't, because the numbers will never stack up. Let's say 20 extra GA movements a day at £25 a throw, that grosses them about £180,000 a year - not a lot. And they'd have to have staff available to deal with them including all the security etc, probably extra vehicles too. And if the GA pilots don't go through the terminal and don't park their cars there the airport gets nothing extra.

Look at Newquay. A publicly-owned airport, supposedly devoted to promoting inward tourism to Cornwall. A very attractive destination for light aircraft. Total 'aero club, private and business aviation' movements in 2009 - 5. Yes, that's right, five.

NS

There's no doubt that previous Management at Norwich made a very grave error with their attitude to G/A.
I can absolutely assure you that everyone, except the recently departed M.D. saw through it, but he went to the Ryanair University of Belligerence and came out with 1st Class Honours and refused to listen.

However, the new development by Saxonair will make a difference. http://www.saxonair.com
They're in it for the long term and are extremely supportive.
They will be handling all G/A who don't have anywhere else to go, and their refreshing, level headed attitude to everything and everyone aviation will hopefully attract new and old back to Norwich. they've already managed to attract CHC from North Denes which will be a significant increase in rig passengers.

For the airport itself, it's going to be a long old slog, the new M.D has a huge amount to do and the Airport Owners have to make some sensible decisions regarding debts, if they don't it'll be like this for a long time to come.

As for Phil Space, well folks, he makes a habit of knocking airports and airfields he has the most minor grudges with. A brief look at his posts over the years will clearly demonstrate that he's someone with a great deal to say about nothing at all.
I know who he is and before I leave I'd like to invite him on a tour of Norwich Airport, then he can personally share his mirth with those who are about to lose their jobs and those whose posts may under threat, all of whom are worrying if they'll still own a home in the New Year. What a giggle that would be eh?:rolleyes:

I'll let you know how I get on!

Maintenance
 

Ok, done some of my own background on this. (the rumour of a "maintenance base" from NWI moving to MAN). Of the 2 significant players at NWI in the maintenance field there is not a chance of any of them moving to Manchester - in fact, quite the opposite.

Im glad - I have lived in the shadow of the airport since I was born and remember looking through the wire fence on Quaker lane at the planes as a lad - I also worked there for a number of years, it may not be a palace but it serves its purpose well and is very people friendly.

I cant think of anyone there who deserves to loose their job - and maybe the one that did has already gone - those in the know (niknak :E) will know exactly who I mean.

Fingers crossed the new MD does well in the face of difficult times. My thoughts are with those who now have this hanging over their heads - its not a nice situation to be in and anyone who finds pleasure in that needs a cold slap.

I've sent an email to niknak to assure him it is nothing personal.

However I quote from the Eastern Daily Press....
Why does a small airport like Norwich need in excess of nine managers?

The other question is that if they are not needed now why were they needed in the past and who paid for them?

I'll answer the last question...the punters using the airport.

Durham Tees airport is alo in a similar position,12 million in the red and sueing a major airline which pulled out. I'm sure that will attract new operators.

Norwich is an oil support airfield.The main traffic is offshore helicopters and KLM flights to Aberdeen and Amsterdam. KLM fares are extremely high compared to the likes of easyjet and Ryanair. The result is that the opportinity EGSH offers, a short close link to worldwide flights via Amsterdam,
is denied to anyone using the airport as it too expensive compared to Stansted just down the road.

With the decline in North Sea oil operations who knows what the future holds for Norwich. If the new MD wants to do something positive cheap flights to Schiphol would be a good idea but I suspect the main operator with a base at NWI would block that.

I'd use the airport again if it became attractive. It needs someone like Ryanair to do that and I cannot see KLM acepting that.

On a final note I am sure the owners are aware of the development value of the land should Nortn Sea operations ever move elsewhere.

Phil Space,

Go check on such a website as http://www.fly.com/uk/ and check out the fare on KLM, lets say, NWI/MNL/NWI then compare this to the fare AMS/MNL/AMS and one will come to realise the NWI/AMS/NWI sectors come very competively priced.

What ..... you have your own fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft operation yet you choose to travel with the likes of Ryanair and EasyJet?

Me, I'm a mere cheapskate, I don't have the money to land helicopters in hotel grounds but I have circa 38,000 accumulated KLM 'Flying Blue' points, shame on you you tight fisted basket!

P.S. Just rushing to the toilet, a (supposed) professional pilot making statement that Ryanair make an airport look attractive. :)

You make some valid points.
KLM will charge you 375 UK pounds for a single fare NWI to AMS. However they offer a 3 month return for 135 pounds. (check it out on their website.)

As for your example of the flight NWI/MNL/NWI that is via Bangkok to Manila.
It used to be a bargain (China Airways) especially those travelling to BKK. However there are better options now via London airports so that traffic has moved.

I am not going to debate why private pilots are cost aware but trust me some people smoke and drink and others waste their money flying from no where to nowhere.

Norwich has a nice cafe looking out over the apron.

The place needs to adopt a more positive attitude to anyone turning up to either sightsee or see people off.

I am happy to waste my time suggesting ideas to the airport management to improve Norwich airport.

For starters they need to adopt the model of 20 years ago.

Phil Space,

I can assure you than AMS/MNL/AMS are direct flights, I flew the route myself during July of this year, the aircraft are B777's painted in a shade of blue and with 'KLM' written on them!!!

NWI/AMS return flights are currently available from £119.25, I've just checked on KLM's website, however if booking via a certain top cashback site there is currently £10.00 cashback if booking direct to KLM's website, infact currently £10.10 cashback, that brings the fare down to £109.15.

BUT ..... do you really believe the majority of travellers on KLM's NWI route are, final, destination AMS? Of course they aren't, that KLM flight will also be on an AF flight number, thru connections AMS/CDG, these are worldwide travellers that value their worldwide availability via the Fokker serving their little regional airport.

Phil Space

KLM do not go to Aberdeen from Norwich

Eastern and BMI Regional do

Shows how long ago it was that I last did the trip. It was one of their regular routes and in fact I did quite a few jump seat trips up front. The last one must have been over a decade ago and we lined up and took off on the now disused
runway outside the terminal.

I hope the new airport manager can undo some of the damage done in the past but in my opinion it was a great little airport when it was still council owned.

Niknak wrote..
We the answer is Niknak has been very quite since he posted that.I sent him a detailed reply which I am happy to post but where is his response.?

There is no mirth in people losing jobs but there is no justification in little airports like Norwich finding they have nine managers and one director surplus to requirements.People like me have to fund that infrastructure.

In supermarket terms Norwich is or should be a Lidl and not an M & S.

As for me I am here in Norfolk for a few more weeks before heading back for the winter to Asia using Emirates from LHR:ok:

What did you want or expect me to say?

I'll put you right on one thing though; The "9 managers" were, until the previous MD came along, "Shift Leaders" in various departments. Each one of them ran individual shifts in 3 departments, (one am, one pm and one on rest days), so now it should be a bit clearer as to why there were 9 of them.
Their redundandcies are a big loss in terms of skill base and knowledge, it will take a long time before anyone is able to do the individual jobs as well as each of them did.

They were only made "Managers" because that is the way the previous MD wanted to run the business.
Their job tiltles changed and job functions included many more responsibilities for which many of them, when they were asked for help/training, were given the O'Leary treatment.
I know this because, unkown to senior management, I often helped them out with procedure formulation and writing - I'm not claiming to be the Messiah, it's just that I knew how to do it so I could pass on the benefits of my knowledge and I was very happy to do so.

I've made no secret of my opinion as to the way the airport treated G/A and the way things have been done, but they are where they are and, as I've previously said, the new MD has a much more progressive approach as to the way things done.
Aside from the redundancies, I think he's on the right track.
The current owners need to either significantly reduce or write off the airport company debt, its the only the airport will be able to get out the perpetual rut it finds itself in.

There's not much more I can say, other than your lack of actual knowledge of current operatons and people at Norwich Airport makes you look a bit daft everytime you spout forth about something which hasn't happened for ages or has never happened at all.
I leave on Friday, but I'm someone will be delighted to give you a guided tour.

I am sure that there'll be plenty of airfields in Asia you can give the world your considered opinon upon. I look forward to reading all about it when you get back.

Niknak

I do not want to appear to be having a personal go at anyone at Norwich but my comments stem from the various negative scenarios I have experienced over the last 12 years.

The days of just calling up on the radio on approach to Norwich and popping in for a coffee have long gone. As others have stated elsewhere the security team seem to delight in filling the few times when they are busy witha zeal that means Norwich is renowned for going over the top especially for departing private pilots flying their own aircraft. Removal of bottles of wine etc from GA operators is not going to win the airport any friends.

You might call them team leaders and helped them with helped them out with .

We call them jobsworths who have to justify their positions.

The drop of 30% plus in traffic at Norwich is down to management not caring about the customer. Have you ever experienced the Norwich treatment as a passenger or a private pilot?

You say
Well Norwich was not in that situation when it was privatized. Why should anyone bail out what has been a disaster.

Durham Tees,Blackpool etc are all facing the same problems.

All fall in to the same catagory. Little airports trying to play in the big league but with no idea and little finesse when it comes to the person who pays the bill. The customer:ok:

As for the new trade...just a case of Norwich poaching the offshore helicopter trade from Beccles and North Denes. Like a flock of starlings they could be off the airfield in a matter of months and where would that leave the airspace grab and the rip off cafe and duty free not to mention the 'development' fee?