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It's all wishful thinking Guys. The truth is, taking the C.I. as a whole there are simply not enough people wanting to travel on a regular basis to make European routes viable. I used to fly the BRS-PLH-JER-CDG route. It only worked because it was multi-stop and we picked up CDG pax en-route (also picked up CI pax en-route as well, of course). Multi-leg routes have their own problems in terms of duty hours and plain old economics so it's unlikely that anybody would start one up again. If you use a small a/c then you have to charge high fares to have any chance of making a profit and if you use a large a/c then you pretty much have to fill it if you want to charge low fares. There is also the problem of what do you do with an a/c when it's finished the one-round trip per week on a low-demand route? Sitting on the ground is not an option, as a sweeping generalisation an a/c on short haul ops needs to be flying about 9-10 hours PER DAY.
Pleasant though all the islands are, tourism is on the wain so as far as a plethora of routes is concerned, these may well be 'the good old days'. No operator is in the game for altruistic reasons, they're in it for the money! |
From UK Airport News
Last ditch talks took place yesterday between Flybe and the Jersey authorities over a Channel Islands - Paris air link. The airline wants £750,000 over two years to launch the route. Guernsey have agreed to a subsidy, but Jersey was prepared to only offer £150,000, however they are now willing to increase the amount to £180,000. Jersey's Assistant Economic Development Minister Alan Maclean, who has responsibility for its airport said: 'Flybe has agreed in principle to our counter-proposal.' He said that Jersey would offer marketing assistance and a subsidy based on the number of inbound passengers. It would also offer reduced landing charges. Maclean added that Flybe accepted the principle behind the performance-related incentive and also had given assurances about its commitment to the route. Flybe Chief Commercial Officer Mike Rutter confirmed the meeting had been very positive. He said: 'The 'Jersey' States were only prepared to offer £150,000 which is not enough to cover the projected £1.5m losses in the first year.' At the outset Flybe asked for £800,000 subsidy from the two islands, but that has reduced to £750,000 because the price of oil had fallen. It is normal for a low-cost airline to ask for support. Rutter added: 'We are looking for a 50:50 share. We have decided to work within the political structure set by Jersey and in return they will have another look at the total funds available and get back to us within 48 hours.' |
CDG isn't hapenning. From UK Airport News
Flybe's proposed Channel Islands to Paris route has been scrapped. After talks last week, Jersey has decided not to increase its offer of funding of the new route. Flybe wanted £800,000 from each island to subsidise a link to Charles de Gaulle Airport, later reducing the sum to £750,000 as the price of oil had fallen. Initailly Jersey offered only £150,000, but increased the sum slightly with incentives including marketing assistance and reduced landing fees. Both islands agreed that whatever the subsidy, it needed to be proportional to the number of incoming passengers. It was predicted the route would lose £1.5m in the first year of opertion. An airline spokesman has said: 'Flybe would like to express disappointment that, despite the Paris route being identified by politicians in both islands as a vital transport link, it has not been able to come to fruition.' --- This saga wont help JER attract airlines in the future if it cant even sort out funding for a route like CDG |
For the sums Guernsey and Jersey are obviously willing to fork out, wouldn't Aurigny be interested ? Certainly a 30seater would be more appropriate than a Q400 and require less funding.
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White tail ATR
Could be route route for one of the white tail ATR 42s.
The shed would take to long, and the shed has been to CDG before now with the old Flybe (Jersey European).:D :D |
Certainly a 30seater would be more appropriate than a Q400 and require less funding. |
Sure a 30/40 seater (forgot that Aurigny have dumped the Saab 340, so it would be down to an ATR42) is more expensive, but I do not think that GCI and JER exactly need a 0.00 GBP*-fare type operation to CDG that flyBE offers (and needs to have subsidized with a rather hefty sum obviously). Why are the islands after a low cost operation for a route that, me thinks, is more important for the business clientele that needs access to an international hub ? Charge more realistic fares that require less funding - and also save business travellers from having to pay for putting stuff in the hold, checking in at all (soon to come), having a cup of tea etc.
FlyBE wanted 1.6m GBP for the route. Over here in Germany, you get a twice-daily route with a 34/36seater for a subsidy in the range of 500.000 GBP - 900.000 GBP, depending on the conditions of the contract (numbers quoted are for the routes KEL-MUC and RLG-MUC which are much longer than JER-CDG). The islands should put out the route to tender. |
TBH Who cares about a link to CDG etc!!. A few business types might use it but not many tourists coming to the island. What has always been missing from the island is a decent low fare airline as Jsy has become a very expensive destination to potential visitors and residents trying to get off the Rock!!!. If Ryanair can serve Newquay!!!! they can also serve Jsy and if Flybe or BA don't like it thats TOUGH as heat and kitchens spring to mind. Anyhow when the dreaded GST comes in tourism will never be the same as visitor numbers plummet,
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noflybywire
You seem to be new to all this??
If you are an anorak yes would be differant to see the odd harp tail wingleted Boeing poping in on the odd occasion if you like that sort of thing. Commercially people like Ryanair are not good for the Island if you have not read in the aviation world articles Jersey is not that type of market you open the door to them on an area of forty five square miles and the only flights you have in a couple of years time will be Ryanair and nobody else. The island needs to look after the all the other connections they have at the moment before they lose any more. |
To be honest, I'm just as happy that Flybe didn't do it; what is needed, as I've said before, is interlining. There were a few AF partner airlines with 30-50 seat commuter aircraft - Britair (CRJ) and Regional (Emb 135/145), for example. They could plug into AF's network at CDG; OK, one can't build a route on connection traffic alone, but there are increasing business links with France and as a tourism destination, people always love Paris (not only in the Springtime!) and furthermore, in AF, you have an airline with the incentive to market Jersey right around the world.
AF has a huge network out of CDG and through CDG, you can access every major European market (much more than can be accessed through LGW, which doesn't even have a CDG link anymore). Given the significant numbers making that bus journey between LGW and LHR every day, the attractiveness of a straight through, interline at CDG must be high indeed. OK, the route may well lose money, but I think this goes beyond mere profitability; this is something the states should be financing and facilitating. If a particularly destination is difficult and inefficient to access (as Jersey is now), that automatically undermines its competitiveness and its attractiveness as a business destination; a route by an AF partner would be a significant boost for the economy and I am sure, in due course, it would become very popular with islanders. |
I guess the problem with subsidised routes is pretty much that those who pay the piper tell what tune has to beplayed. So usually they expect to have an aircraft based that operates to the most desirable schedule etc. Not sure if Air France would be that co-operative. As the potential customers would probably mostly have rather deep pockets, maybe some interlining would be sufficient. Works quite okay over here with some of the subsidised route which serve MUC; they are all not operated by the Lufthansa group, but by independent regional carriers that are quite willing to base an aircraft if the subsidy is big enough.
One other thought - if Air France isn't interested, couldn't Atlantic Express offer something subsidised ? Like JER 0630 - 0830 CDG 0900 - 0900 JER 0920 - 1020 STN 1050 - 1150 JER 1540 - 1640 STN 1710 - 1810 JER 1830 - 2030 CDG 2100 - JER 2100. As we just at it - how about the ZRH link ? |
GBALU53
I have been in the Aviation game for 32 years and hold a CPL/IR with 9k+ hours so if that makes me an anorak then so be it. The states of Jersey have far better things to do with their!!! money then waste it on a route that has never been a success and IMO never will be. In fact if it's such a money spinner why haven't VLM applied for it, |
By the way, isn't there a French outfit that operates to Paris with a Beech 1900 ? What's the problem with them - only suitable for inbound traffic ?
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Twinjet. They fly Cherbourg-ORY in the morning then ORY-Cherbourg-JER. The plane spends the day in JER and then does to the reverse to night stop in Cherbourg
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Yes, Twin Jet has been operating for a number of years now. It is not a substantial operation, carrying fewer than 200 passengers a month. I would imagine that it is supported mainly by business passengers, hence the high fares.
On a separate note, there are some summer 2007 schedules available. Atlantic Express has some schedule changes as follows: AEX21 JER STN 07:30 08:40 AEX22 STN JER 09:10 10:20 AEX23 JER STN 12:20 13:30 AEX24 STN JER 14:00 15:10 AEX25 JER STN 17:00 18:10 AEX26 STN JER 18:40 19:50 The midday flight seems to be operating only on Su.M.F.Sa, but changing the morning and evening flights by 30 minutes/1 hour does make Atlantic Express a more convenient option. Moreover, Aer Lingus will be operating 3x weekly from the end of May - the schedule normally begins at the end of March. |
I've heard from another source that EI will only be operating 2 weekly flights next Summer - Tues and Sat, obviously with A320s. The flights will stop in September, so a significantly shorter season.
Perhaps Aer Arann would consider the route; there's certainly demand, given the significant Irish population in Jersey. Having to fly through the UK is becoming increasingly tiresome, what with the extra security, additional taxes etc; with more ATR72s coming in the near future, perhaps it's an option RE could look at. ORK could prove a useful mini-hub for such a route, with onward connections to Belfast, Galway and Dublin? |
Flybr Summer Schedules 2007
With some of the Fybe summer schedules not being released yet what do they have up the sleave.
From information received there may be a second Bristol for the summer, it might not be every day but a second rotation is on the possibley on the cards?? |
Yes, I’m quite eager to see the full Flybe. summer schedule. The routes have been slowly released but there are still quite a few extra routes and frequencies to be added like Bristol, Edinburgh and the Saturday tourist flights. Also, maybe there will be some new services?
If the rumour about an increase in the frequency of the Bristol flight is true then where would the aircraft come from? The current schedule with the based aircraft is quite full and there is little space for extra rotations. |
Well, the Flybe. Bristol flights went on sale today and are still 1x daily.
The other news I have is that there will be yet another addition to the German charter destinations for summer 2007. Along with Frankfurt, Dusseldorf, Hannover and Stuttgart, Wolters Reisen, the German tour operator, will be offering Saturday flights from Munich. The flight will be operated with Lufthansa Cityline. Good to see Jersey expanding its European tourist market. :) |
Manchester route
With the take over of BA Connect how is this going to benefit the Island how??
The only thing so far quoted was a second rotation on the Manchester meaning three flighst a day, 2 by Flybe and the Baby flight. Going back to when British Airways operated the route there was a morning and afternoon flight with the ATP but it routed via Guernsey so how long will this last if they think the route can support the best part of three hundered seats a day by the two carriers. |
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