Scotbill

You keep banging on about this 375 airfare.

If you book in advance its a third of that. Booking on the day because your ferry isn't sailing is always going to result in a high fare.

This happens pretty much everywhere that provides the same kind of route and aircraft.

Please stop comparing larger aircraft operated in the past. There is a reason why they no longer are in use, largely down to fuel and operating costs greatly increased during the last 30 years....... The demand never required an 80+ seat aircraft anyways, they just did that because they had them available and could afford to do it.

If you want make a valid point, tell me of a comparable operation that doesn't charge these fares?

The Viscounts were operated by state owned BEA/BA and operated much as a public service. No commercially focussed business would operate in that manner without a subsidy.

State owned BEA, while not always successful, did its best to try and make a profit.

I did point out that the people suffering are those who cannot book in advance for whatever reason.


If you want to make a valid point, tell me of a comparable operation that charges these fares for 45 minute flights and is happy to operate half full.

Maybe Eastern?

There is no comparable operation........

Thats my valid point.

The reason why the operations you refer to from the past no longer exist is that it was not economically viable.

To operate on the premise that 34 punters are going to turn up each flight for a third of the price is daft to say the least.

It has been said to you before, that model does not apply and it wasn't successful when costs were much, much less decades ago.

Much as I agree, who would enjoy paying that price, it is what it is.....

The alternative is no schedule service at all and don't think for one minute Loganair won't pull out if it starts costing money rather than making a small profit.

Eastern
 

Yeah! Eastern does do pretty much the same.

I stand corrected, thanks!

Great attempt to defend the indefensible - but would it be unfair to summarise your stance as:

"Sod the punters - who needs them!"

It's funny, I just looked up Glasgow to London with an airline using a nice big plane for tomorrow and the cheeky blighters wanted 340 quid.

How dare they eh?

Brilliant selective use of statistics - early Monday morning commuter flight.
For the rest of the day fares range from £111 - £146 - for a journey of 400+ miles against 160+

Your own recommended method of booking three weeks in advance would have produced cheaper fares of course.

I can understand your loyalty in defending your employer's economics and I don't expect you to accept how much your airline has failed the people of the Hebrides.

So I leave the field to your unique brand of economics.

Edinburgh - Manchester day return tomorrow: £351.97
Benbecula - Stornoway day return tomorrow: £142.00

Happy now??

High fares are nothing new. I've been flying to and from SYY for over 20 years. It was regularly £100 return if you booked in advance from GLA back in the BA days. But I rember a last minute flight to INV one way was £120 this was back in 1999. Admittedly the average price is higher now but 14 years on I'd expect that. Nobody has failed anyone. It's simple supply and demand.

The best I've seen was £55 return and that was on BMI when they operated te route and we know how that route ended.

Lets not forget there is a choice on the island and that is to fly Eastern or flyBE/Loganair. However I'd put money on saying the T3 flight is a lot more expensive on average. It's certainly been more than I've been willing to pay.

I wonder if flyBE "mainline" would work with an occasional DH8 flight. Or if we'd ever see an LCC in SYY? For the purpose of this discussion I do not class flyBE operated by Loganair as an LCC.

The sheer irrelevance of your Beb-Sto example has tempted me back.

Beb - Sto = 50+ miles Edi -Man = 200 miles

Unfortunately you picked a bad day for your example.

Flybe day return tomorrow Gla - Beb - £429

If it needs spelling out - the previous example on Gla Lon illustrates the normal airline philosophy that you increase the fares as the plane fills up. So the early commuter service to the capital is obviously full. Later there are bargains to be had.

I doubt very much whether tomorrow's Beb services are full.

And now I really will leave the field :ugh:

Scotbill wrote:-

"Great attempt to defend the indefensible - but would it be unfair to summarise your stance as:

"Sod the punters - who needs them!""

whereas you believe the airline should risk going bust so people who are in a hurry at the last minute can fly cheaply? Where have you been for the last 30 years? It's not just airlines who operate a last minute booking = more cash policy - it applies everywhere these days

Why are you guys so obsessed with price vs. distance? It has never worked like this in the airline industry. With that logic, flights like BEB-SYY should only cost pocket money because you can fly TATL return for 400 quid or so which is like 40 times the distance than BEB-SYY. Even if you get into a cab, you have an initial fare and only on top of that the meter kicks in, making short rides disporportionately expensive.

Just out of curiosity and from a distance - what is Eastern's selling point as they have been soldiering on for a couple of years? Do they hold a contract by the NHS or someone else?

I wonder if Scotbill had his own business, would he allow it to run it at a loss?
The lack of public funds are to blame here, the routes in question all have PSO status which just about allows the operator to break even on the routes.
This is the same the world over.

Eastern may be supporting some oil field work _ I think there was something (?construction work?) going on at Arnish and maybe the odd supply or seismic boat may be calling in for the West of Shetlands fields

Shame Scotbill has left the conversation. He seems such a delight, and a fountain of knowledge.

I think one of the attractions of Eastern is that it offers a convenient one stop connection for those who work offshore out of Aberdeen. Other than that I'm not sure. There are many students from the island in the Aberdeen area but I can't imagine many students would pay the prices to go home via Eastern.

Aberdeen is further than Inverness from syy and I bet the landing / handling fees are more expensive also

Never mind that there will be nearly 80 quids worth of tax and airport charges on a ABZ-SYY-ABZ flight.

And 250 quid return booked over a month in advance with 80 quid of that taxes seems resonable enough for 2 45 min sectors on a J41.

Loganair
 

Loganair/Flybe announce codeshare from Donegal to Heathrow via DUB.

SEE HERE http://www.donegaldaily.com/2013/02/19/donegal-airport-announces-new-connections-to-london/