LIVERPOOL
 

Liverpool, it looks like were gett'in that runway extention, surveyors at the end 27 this morning.

Firstly start with a new surface! It's a joke, what ever they have done in the past few weeks seems to have made it a bit smoother! But what's the deal with the center line lights? They are like ramps! No problem in slowing down with 7500 feet, if you're struggling, the ramps will slow ya up! Are they industry standard?? How long's the extension?

MK

The runway is to get major attention approx this time next year I believe.

FlyBE on the way out?
 

http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0...name_page.html


http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0...name_page.html

Are their new services ex-MAN a precursor to a withdrawal from JLA?

Personally I think Liverpool was always the second best option for FlyBe.

They applied for numerous services Ex Manchester last year but could not get them as there were no slots availble. Man'' now has a number of prime slots available so they switched back !

Bigger catchment area and better connections...

Having been given the opportunity JLA should really have grabbed it with both hands... !

MAN will always play second fiddle to LHR and JLA will always suffer with MAN.

The airline blames a lack of business pax.

So what did they originally schedule, 1*per day to Exeter, Glasgow and Edinburgh, with all having departures in the mid afternoon. Not surprising that they did not get the customers paying the fares they wanted then.

They are to move into MAN with the opening up of TWO returns per day (the day after they stop flying LPL/EXT) to Exeter to 'enable business passengers a full day to do business'.

They are to reduce in January the LPL/BHD from 4*per day to 2*per day with a maximum time in Belfast for any passenger on a weekday is ONE HOUR before returning to LPL.

As for potential passenger catchment areas there is not a lot to choose between them both (5-7million for both LPL and MAN within 1 hours drive, with a max of 15million from LPL and 17million from MAN within a two hour drive - source CAA) but an airline flying from MAN has to contend with other airlines on most potential routes flybe may serve, whereas from LPL (IOM apart) they have no competition.

I think you will find that the reason they want Manchester and not Liverpool is that they code share with Continental Airlines
to the states and therefore look at all that extra inbound business class traffic they can generate

G-I-B

Did'nt they think of that before they made the move into LPL, my guess is the Manchester backhand money is the real reason, and to give LPL a bloody nose, whenever they can.

As Bagso pointed out they tried last year but the slots were not available
so next best thing I guess but now the world is their oyster

G-I-B

Doesn't it strike anyone how Flybe are threatening to pull out of LPL and at the same time have said they will be starting new routes from MAN in the year to come?

Are any new aircraft on the way or is it just a case of conveniently switching aircraft between the two airports?

Very well put dwlpl.
The routes and timings they introduced from Liverpool just appeared to be a token gesture, knowing full well they would fail.
I think they just wanted a foot hold in the Northwest whilst waiting for a better opportunity to turn up.
Personally I am very disappointed in them. All the hype and promises they came out with at the start were nothing but lip service to Liverpool.
After listening to an interview with Mike Rutter on Radio Merseyside a few weeks ago he more or less said they would be going to Manchester eventually and he didnt seem that bothered about letting Liverpool down. You win some you lose some was something like his response.

I thank you Friio4.

Has anyone else noticed the standard press release Mike Rutter gives out when new routes are added re the promises he makes?

Some weeks after he announced the Liverpool services he did the same for Leeds and Norwich. I note that BHD/NWI is going the same way as LPL with the first (BHD) route being stopped. Wonder if he has more announcements in line for them?

Manchester transparent fees and charges
 

Mouser

You always seem to have a bit of a vendetta against Manchester, and I am sorry that anything that detracts from Liverpool appears to upset you.

Liverpool has made great advances over the last few years and deserve to be where it is are now - not many aoirports can be claiming the percentage increase there has been in the past year. During it's history Manchester has had many ups and downs caused by the loss of services - it is a way of life.

One thing that Manchester has offered for many a year, as far as I am aware, is an open book on fees and charges - together with assistance that may be offered to new airlines. Have a look at the airport's website and then go to the Fees and Charges subsection in the Literature Archive under 'About Us and Our Group' and you will find the full details.

I don't think that you will find it is so much a case of poaching, but rather one of slots becoming available with the reduction in British Airways flights.

Scottie Dog

I cant really see there is much more Liverpool could have done. Surely it is the airline that decides the timings not the airport. Apart from BHD, one flight a day during mid afternoon is no good for the business community. Then Flybe have the cheek to say the business community is not using the services so they are stopping them, no wonder.

If I have read the above link properly then LCC must be losing money on routes ex MAN because they are being charged more 4 times (£8.09 as against the rumoured £1.50) as much per international passsenger than they are a LPL.

Unless they have a 'deal'.

dwpl

From a quick look at the flybe website once all the taxes and surcharges are included they are charging about £10 more for flights ex MAN than LPL. In no doubt due to the higher airport charges they are paying at MAN.

Flybe warns it may pull out of Liverpool airport

Helen Carter
Thursday October 20, 2005
The Guardian


The budget airline Flybe is poised to pull out of Liverpool unless there is a sudden dramatic rise in business passengers.
The Exeter-based carrier will stop flying from John Lennon airport to Edinburgh at the end of this month, following its recent cancellation of the Liverpool-Glasgow service. The remaining four routes from the city are said to be under "urgent review".

Simon Lilley, head of marketing, warned that Flybe's services to Southampton, Exeter, Belfast and Jersey were at risk. "We are not happy with the performance of the remaining routes and they are all under urgent review," he said.

Well they must be very happy as
Hapag Lloyd Express, Sky Europe
Flybe all adding flights for next year
Jet2, BMIbaby operating large number of flights the only poor performer is Air Berlin
which I think you can blame on their own advertising which is poor to put it mildly
If they were not happy they would simply up sticks and go to somewhere they thought they could make more money
Most of them when you look at it go to major airports like Amsterdam and Paris
which I`m sure must be equally or more expensive than Manchester

I Think Manchester has the mix just about right with Locos, Charter, European full cost airlines , plenty of long haul and cargo which means if something fails there is always something to fall back on

G-I-B

G-IB - Are you on the right thread this is Liverpool, the services you mention are from Manchester??
:ugh:

Yes I was answering Dwlp

G-I-B

GIB
 

What I was trying to find out is that LCC are very good at getting 'blood out of a stone' and the link is pointing to the them paying £8.09 per passenger.

The usual rate is nearer £2 than £8 for these airlines, so the chances/odds are on them having come to some sort of an arrangement whereby they are not paying the £8.09.

Flybe pulling out at LPL
 

Looks like Flybe are pulling LPL-EXT service on the 16th Feb coinciding with new twice daily service from MAN-EXT. Can't book LPL-EXT past the 16th Feb and its not showing on their timetable past that date.

dwlpl
 

Without wanting to highjack the Liverpool thread - which is what appears to have happened for a short while - I feel that I have to quantify the reply that you have given with reference to the Manchester Charges and Fees.

The figure that you have quoted of £8.09 is the PFC (Passenger Facility Charge) for international passengers at peak time. The charge for domestic passengers is £1.50, plus the runway fees etc etc. The paragraph that I had hoped you would have found was 7.2, which refers to Incentives for airlines starting new routes. If you look that that section you would find the fee to be £3.00 in the first year, rising to £5.00 in year 3. The incentive charge is fully inclusive and therefore offers extremely good value to an airline looking to start a new route - and giving a good opportunity for the route to be developed and become profitable.

Hopefully on that note we can now return the thread to its true role of promoting Liverpool's development.

Scottie Dog

For a 'new route'.

Does that mean a new route from MAN for an airline, in this case flybe to BHD.

Or does it mean a new route for the airport, which in this case is not correct because BACX fly the route.

The document states: "The Route is planned to be operated at least once every 14 days throughout the Summer or Winter Season from the date of inauguration; and the Route has not been served during the previous corresponding year from the Airport by any Airline; and when compared with the previous year, the total seating capacity of the Airline flown from the Airport has increased; and City Pair Airports are not included; and ......"

So, the MAN/BHD would not qualify, but the MAN/EXT would do.

Hope that helps to explain things a little for you - and makes my point of the incentives being available to all airlines.

PS - also says " Any second Airline that subsequently starts a New Route operated by a first Airline will benefit from the relevant All-Inclusive Charge until the first Airline no longer benefits from the All-Inclusive Charge"

Wizz Air is to increase frequency to both Warsaw and Katowice ex Liverpool from the current three flights per week up to four per week later in the winter period.

From the start of the 2006 summer scheduling period both Warsaw and Katowice will see the frequency increased again to five flights per week.

It is thought that Ryanair will be basing aircraft number six at Liverpool before the main summer holiday period rush starts in July 2006.

BTW, Ryanair have brought forward the start of four of its routes ex NEMA. They will start 7th/8th/9th Feb instead of mid March.

According to flybe management there is no intention of withdrawl from liverpool,the scottish routes have underperformed but they see a long term future in SOU and BHD routes.

as for the scotish routes the timings wereall wrong i flew to glasgow at 1430 inthe afternoon only flight thats no good for business users also the flight was awful both ways noisey was an understetement awful landing at both ends was nearly sick it needs a early morning departure with a jet aircraft not a awful noisey prop aircraft nerver fly with flybee again awful service use ba out of man far superior

Somehow cant' see a long term future for BHD - frequency being reduced in January from 4 to 2 daily weekdays - hardly inspires confidence with BHD - MAN starting in January.

In an interview this week on local radio, Michael O'Leary was full of praise for Peel and the new terminal, and singled out check'in and the ramp staff in particular, for all pulling together. BTW a/c number six could arrive sortly.

Lack of carpark space
 

I flew from Liverpool for the first time in August,to Madrid.I found it quicker to get to than Manchester driving.Had no problems with the airport itself,however finding a space in carpark a nightmare.The sign said a 170+ spaces,I could't find one.There were cars parked on the grass,I had to resort to lying in wait,until somebody vacated a place.Was I unlucky or is this a common problem?.It certainly made me a bit wary of using the airport again.

Next time if there is a next time, try car park No2, the half empty one to the right as you approach the airport, as for parking on the grass, wot grass, though I take your point the No1 long stay does get fulled up.

Cheers Mouser.Thanks for the tip.I did indeed use the carpark nearest the terminal,but ended up in the furthest part.I will take your advice next time!.(I'd like to try Poland,not an option from my local airport,yet!).

The sixth based 737-800 is now said to be coming to Liverpool in February 2006.

........................................

Also a new route is being started by Wizz Air to Gdansk from Liverpool.

The new route, starting 2nd March, will operate three times per week:

Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday

W6305 arr LPL 2020
W6306 dep LPL 2050

flybe are dropping the Exeter route

from justplanes

..... yes, as posted more than four weeks ago.

Flybe - LPL
 

Good riddance to Flybe,
in my opinion they have held LPL to ransom from day one, (threatening to transfer their business to MAN if they didnt get adequete pax numbers.) - BA and BD will blast them away at MAN
LPL Wont miss them - and in my experience of dealing with them during turnarounds I know I certainly wont!!!!

They wanted Manchester in the first instance just could not get the slots now they have them and now they will take Manchester by storn just as they are becoming the dominant airline at Birmingham.
The reason is code share with Continental
links to all over America from MAN, BHX, GLA and EDI

G-I-B

NI,
Sorry but you want to get rid of an Airline?....:confused:
dwlpl,
Silly timings..Dep LPL 2050.....What time do you get to your Hotel?
Surely a 15/1700 would be better.
Is it an "Airline" or an "Airport" issue?
Any news on your Transat Service?
watp,iktch

Wizz are to start flights (due to the delivery of a new A320 to Gdansk?) the same week to Dortmund from Gdansk so I presume that the airline is entirely responsible for the schedules for both of the new routes.

The arrival time of midnight for a scheduled flight is not out of the ordinary. You only have to look at the arrivals board at any airport to see there are many, particularly in the summer months.

Also, what Transat service?